Jfitz427 Posted November 18, 2018 Share Posted November 18, 2018 Hello fellas, ive just started noticing a large amount of really really flat primers for my major load. I’m brand new to 2011 open guns. I’ve put about 1200rds though this one since I got it a month ago. It’s essentially the same exact load I used to shoot though my Glock, except now I’m loading then a bit longer. I’ve read a lot of the threads and my load is quite a bit lower then most others I’ve seen. I’m using federal match small pistol primers, very soft. But I don’t really remember this happening with my Glock. You’d think the pressure would have gone down a bit going from 1.155 to 1.180. I see some people loading out to 1.200, but I don’t feel there’s enough bullet left in the case to load any further then 1.18. The load is 125g blue bullet 7.3g hs-6 fed Spp 1.180. 170 pf I see people using like 8gs with 124g bullets and up to 9g with 115s, my load is significantly less then that. So is flattening like this normal? I don’t see any other pressure signs other then this. No swipes, no cracked cases. I loaded a few with Winchester primers and they weren’t nearly as flat, but win are much harder primers. Working on getting some pictures. It’s a great load, very flat and smooth. But if I drop it anymore it won’t make major. What do I do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jfitz427 Posted November 18, 2018 Author Share Posted November 18, 2018 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 Might be possible that the bullets are hitting the rifling in your barrel, raising pressure. Have you tried The Plunk Test ? 1.18" seems a bit long - it's possible your pressure will drop if you back that down to 1.165" or so, but I'd run The Plunk Test first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
echotango Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 (edited) I agree with Jack. I tried hs6 with 115's and had no signs if high pressure/flattened primers. Try 1.165" and plunk em'. Edited November 19, 2018 by echotango Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theWacoKid Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 Most major loads are going to flatten and smear federal spp's. Like stated above there are other factors that affect how a primer will look after firing. Short throat and more headspace I've found will create flatter primers. You may have some of this going on compared to your Glock. I'd also save the Fed's for the Glock and move to something else for your 2011 major loads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jfitz427 Posted November 19, 2018 Author Share Posted November 19, 2018 41 minutes ago, theWacoKid said: Most major loads are going to flatten and smear federal spp's. Like stated above there are other factors that affect how a primer will look after firing. Short throat and more headspace I've found will create flatter primers. You may have some of this going on compared to your Glock. I'd also save the Fed's for the Glock and move to something else for your 2011 major loads. So I thought since moving to the 2011 I could finally get reliable ignition with Winchester primer, but nope. Little better then my Glock, but still not 100%. It couldn’t believe it. I thought hammer fired guns were supposed to be better in terms of light triggers but still reliable. I have two 2011s, my limited gun will set off Winchester 100% of the time, the trigger is about 2.5lbs, my trubor trigger is just a hair over 1.5lbs. So I think it’s got a lighter mainspring housing. Hammer doesn’t drop as hard as my other gun. I love the trigger though. Say I load up some Winchester, and they don’t have the same flattening, won’t that kinda just be masking the pressure? Is these flat primers a serious concern, seeing how soft the fed match primers are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
36873687 Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 Try the pluck test as stated above. That’s longest I’ve heard of 9 major been loaded. 1.165 jhp an 1.170 rn. I shoot 115 grain an use srp an Winchester sets em off every time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jfitz427 Posted November 19, 2018 Author Share Posted November 19, 2018 13 minutes ago, 36873687 said: Try the pluck test as stated above. That’s longest I’ve heard of 9 major been loaded. 1.165 jhp an 1.170 rn. I shoot 115 grain an use srp an Winchester sets em off every time. I just tried a few but they al dropped right in, I can spin them and turn the barrel around and they drop out. I always check a few for every hundred I load. The only thing I can think of is inconsistency between lots of powder. I’ve been buying them in 1lb canisters, 3 here, 1 there etc. I ordered an 8lb jug that should be here this week. So I should get better consistency for a while. I know from rifle reloading for PRS powder can change a lot lot to lot. I still have like 600 rounds that I loaded for my Glock that are around 1.155. I’m gonna take it out to the range and see if I have the same problem. But I don’t recall ever having primers this flat. I’ll also try some of those in my 2011. I havent seen any pierced primers which is good. Federal are really soft. I would be extremely worried if these were win small rifle. I had some loaded up with win primers a few weeks ago and they didn’t look like this. 7.3g really is on the low end, I’ve been reading threads and many people are using 8+ with 124s. And up to 9+ with 115s. I tried my 115g load with 8.3g to see if those looked any better and they didn’t, they were just as flat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
36873687 Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 1 hour ago, Jfitz427 said: I just tried a few but they al dropped right in, I can spin them and turn the barrel around and they drop out. I always check a few for every hundred I load. The only thing I can think of is inconsistency between lots of powder. I’ve been buying them in 1lb canisters, 3 here, 1 there etc. I ordered an 8lb jug that should be here this week. So I should get better consistency for a while. I know from rifle reloading for PRS powder can change a lot lot to lot. I still have like 600 rounds that I loaded for my Glock that are around 1.155. I’m gonna take it out to the range and see if I have the same problem. But I don’t recall ever having primers this flat. I’ll also try some of those in my 2011. I havent seen any pierced primers which is good. Federal are really soft. I would be extremely worried if these were win small rifle. I had some loaded up with win primers a few weeks ago and they didn’t look like this. 7.3g really is on the low end, I’ve been reading threads and many people are using 8+ with 124s. And up to 9+ with 115s. I tried my 115g load with 8.3g to see if those looked any better and they didn’t, they were just as flat. I’ve shot my buddy’s load which he had a shorty 8.5 hs6 124 so I know u are on low end.i had flat primers with spp Winchester but they were 115 grain. I just use srp with 115. I’d say federal is the problem. Try other brand spp if your set on spp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 5 hours ago, Jfitz427 said: 7.3g is low, many are use 8+ with 124s. Are Blue Bullets copper jacketed ? Or, are they coated lead ? Coated lead bullets require less powder than copper jacketed bullets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
36873687 Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 2 hours ago, Hi-Power Jack said: Are Blue Bullets copper jacketed ? Or, are they coated lead ? Coated lead bullets require less powder than copper jacketed bullets. Coated lead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebg3 Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 Use an extended firing pin in your 2011 and light strikes should not be an issue. Also, small rifle primers are widely used for major loads in open and limited. The harder cup greatly reduces flattening and primer smear. A long firing pin, 17lb main spring and small rifle primers is the combo I've used for years with zero light strikes or pressure issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theWacoKid Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 9 hours ago, Jfitz427 said: So I thought since moving to the 2011 I could finally get reliable ignition with Winchester primer, but nope. Little better then my Glock, but still not 100%. It couldn’t believe it. I thought hammer fired guns were supposed to be better in terms of light triggers but still reliable. I have two 2011s, my limited gun will set off Winchester 100% of the time, the trigger is about 2.5lbs, my trubor trigger is just a hair over 1.5lbs. So I think it’s got a lighter mainspring housing. Hammer doesn’t drop as hard as my other gun. I love the trigger though. Say I load up some Winchester, and they don’t have the same flattening, won’t that kinda just be masking the pressure? Is these flat primers a serious concern, seeing how soft the fed match primers are. So what I was trying to say is it isn't just pressure alone that causes flatter primers. Yes a harder primer can "mask" pressure signs, but with major you're going to run elevated pressures so some flattening will occur. But each gun is different how it produces fired primers and pressure isn't the single variable. Learn how your gun looks with certain primers over time and use a chrono regularly. If it eases your mind, load develop with soft primers and then run something else. There's no reason a 2011 won't set off every primer. 1.5 isn't that light and should be no problem to get to light off everything from pistol to rifle. It may take some parts adjustment but it will run whatever you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jfitz427 Posted November 19, 2018 Author Share Posted November 19, 2018 3 hours ago, Hi-Power Jack said: Are Blue Bullets copper jacketed ? Or, are they coated lead ? Coated lead bullets require less powder than copper jacketed bullets. Ya they’re coated. Thick coating though. But ya they definitely take a bit less then jacketed. My load was original with JHP, and it took 7.5g to make the same 170pf. And I was able to drop it .2 with the coated lead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jfitz427 Posted November 19, 2018 Author Share Posted November 19, 2018 8 hours ago, 36873687 said: I’ve shot my buddy’s load which he had a shorty 8.5 hs6 124 so I know u are on low end.i had flat primers with spp Winchester but they were 115 grain. I just use srp with 115. I’d say federal is the problem. Try other brand spp if your set on spp That’s what I’m thinking. It’s these fed primers. Regular federal spp are soft, the match ones are even softer. I have some federal small rifle primers, as well as sWinchester small pistol and rifle. I’m gonna give those a try. I would hate to think it’s the powder, and the combo just doesn’t work for my gun and conditions around me. Especially after buying 8 more pounds of it. I wonder if one of the other powders would work better for me. I might have to pick up some one pounders of other powders and try. I really like how this load shoots though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aircooled6racer Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 (edited) Hello: I only use Winchester small rifle my 9mm major loads with 115's and 8.9-9.1 grains of HS-6.Primers are not flattened. I use a Dawson firing pin since they are the longest. Extra power firing pin spring and a 17lb ISMI mainspring. Thanks, Eric Edited November 19, 2018 by Aircooled6racer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzt Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 When I bought my backup 2011 Open gun, it came with 500 rounds of loaded ammo. The original owned used WSP primers. I was using CCI at the time and had a few light strikes. I took the gun apart and found he was using a Ti firing pin and a 15 lb mainspring. I replaced the firing pin with a SS one from EGW, the FP spring with a 'normal' power ISMI spring, and went to an ISMI 19 lb mainspring. It fires all primers and functions perfectly with a 1.5 lb trigger. I'm sure it would have worked with a 17 lb ISMI spring, but I didn't have one in stock at the time. J, since you buy powder by the pound, consider switching. For instance, Lovex 37.1, also available as Shooter's World Major will significantly lower pressure and give you a lot more gas to work the comp. I'm using up the last of my WAC, HS-6 and Silhouette. I'm moving to 3N38 for minor and 37.1 for major. I really, really like 37.1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gooldylocks Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 (edited) snip Edited November 19, 2018 by Gooldylocks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aircooled6racer Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 (edited) Hello: You are correct I use HS-6 for 9mm major. Not enough coffee this mourning. I did change it above. Thanks, Eric Edited November 19, 2018 by Aircooled6racer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jfitz427 Posted November 19, 2018 Author Share Posted November 19, 2018 3 hours ago, zzt said: When I bought my backup 2011 Open gun, it came with 500 rounds of loaded ammo. The original owned used WSP primers. I was using CCI at the time and had a few light strikes. I took the gun apart and found he was using a Ti firing pin and a 15 lb mainspring. I replaced the firing pin with a SS one from EGW, the FP spring with a 'normal' power ISMI spring, and went to an ISMI 19 lb mainspring. It fires all primers and functions perfectly with a 1.5 lb trigger. I'm sure it would have worked with a 17 lb ISMI spring, but I didn't have one in stock at the time. J, since you buy powder by the pound, consider switching. For instance, Lovex 37.1, also available as Shooter's World Major will significantly lower pressure and give you a lot more gas to work the comp. I'm using up the last of my WAC, HS-6 and Silhouette. I'm moving to 3N38 for minor and 37.1 for major. I really, really like 37.1. I may have to try some other brands. Of course I’m thinking of doing so after I ordered an 8lb jug of hs-6. I guess I could just sell it on here. I really like hs-6 though. I’ve been reading about shooters world major. Does it really run at lower pressure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 As said in a number of posts above, get a new 17lb mainspring and replace whatever you currently have. I've never had a problem with any 1911 style gun with a 17lb mainspring firing pistol or small rifle primers. (or large pistol primers). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzt Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 1 hour ago, Jfitz427 said: I’ve been reading about shooters world major. Does it really run at lower pressure? Yes. It's way softer too. I was zeroing the Major load on Sat, and decided to see if some rounds I loaded with XTP bullets shot to the same POI. I was surprised at how much harsher the 172 PF Silhouette load was in comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aircooled6racer Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 Hello: HS-6 gives alot of gas and is very good for 9mm major. I tried the Shooters World powder with my 115's and it takes over 10 grains to make major. If you do the math HS-6 is cheaper. I am going to try the other Shooters World powder for major pistol soon. I think it will be like Winchester Auto Comp with lower powder drops. Silhouette is reverse temp sensitive so it goes faster at lower temps. Thanks, Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jfitz427 Posted November 20, 2018 Author Share Posted November 20, 2018 3 hours ago, Aircooled6racer said: Hello: HS-6 gives alot of gas and is very good for 9mm major. I tried the Shooters World powder with my 115's and it takes over 10 grains to make major. If you do the math HS-6 is cheaper. I am going to try the other Shooters World powder for major pistol soon. I think it will be like Winchester Auto Comp with lower powder drops. Silhouette is reverse temp sensitive so it goes faster at lower temps. Thanks, Eric I really like HS-6. But it’s also the only powder I’ve used for 9 major. Maybe another powder would shoot better. I just got 8 more lbs of it, so I’m gonna be sticking with it for atleast the next 7k rounds. After that I’ll pick up a few one pounders of some other powders and see if they shoot better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aircooled6racer Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 Hello: I have tried most of the powders for 9mm major and keep coming back to HS-6. It is not the cleanest but does clean up easily. Not abrasive and burns very completely. If you like to test loads since it is part of the fun for me then try all the powders you can is my suggestion. I think in the end you will find what works for you the best. For me so far it's HS-6 and 115's. Thanks, Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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