Weight removal for carry optics in frame of CZ Shadow 2

[threat]

Question: Can I remove weight from the frame of a gun to make weight for carry optics.
Details: I have a Shadow 2. I want to internally or externally mill the dust cover of the gun to reduce weight to meet the maximum 45oz limit.

Information already known:

Per Rulebook Appendix D7 21.2b 

Quote

Cuts designed to specifically or significantly lighten the slide, such as holes, are allowed.

Per Rulebook Appendix D7 21.2a

Quote

Cosmetically enhancing the finish of a slide or frame is ALLOWED in Carry Optics Division. Stippling on the frame to provide texture or additional grip surface is specifically allowed.

Clarification needed: It is easy to see that slide milling to make weight is explicitly allowed, however I can not find text the explicitly does not allow milling of the frame in a similar fashion.

What probably answers it: Per Rule book Appendix D7 "Special conditions" 
 

Quote

— UNLESS a modification is SPECIFICALLY authorized in the rules or SPECIFICALLY authorized in an official, published NROI interpretation, it is considered a PROHIBITED MODIFICATION. 

TLDR: Is any one aware of a officialy NROI interpretation that allows for milling of frame to make weight for carry optics?

 

Edited August 8, 2018 by threat

[Rnlinebacker]

my buddy had his p09 slide milled for budget open lol. he's going to nationals with it so get it done. You thinking CZC or CGW?

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[threat]

5 minutes ago, Rnlinebacker said:

my buddy had his p09 slide milled for budget open lol. he's going to nationals with it so get it done. You thinking CZC or CGW?

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I'm going to mill my Shadow 2 Slide regardless to mount the Delta Point Pro that's going up top. I'll be doing the work myself most likely because I have the resources and skills to do so.

I'm specially wondering about the frame though, because I'd much rather take weight out of the gun in the god awful thick dustcover the S2 has.

[jcc7x7]

Rule book speaks of slides not the frame, I thought of doing a Butler cut on my Stock ll but can't see where the rule book allows it

So if it doesn't allow it, from what I know about CO rules, it is excluded or not allowed.

[Rnlinebacker]

I'm going to mill my Shadow 2 Slide regardless to mount the Delta Point Pro that's going up top. I'll be doing the work myself most likely because I have the resources and skills to do so.

I'm specially wondering about the frame though, because I'd much rather take weight out of the gun in the god awful thick dustcover the S2 has.

I hear ya but nah man. the gun is pretty well balanced. just mill the slide because if you don't like it you can always get another slide

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[WestTex]

I have a slide en route from CGW that they milled to make weight. They sent me a plastic guide rod from tso, milled one long port in the top as far as they could go, and removed the metal shield on the deltapoint pro. They also took weight out of the grips. 

It should be back to me by Saturday so I'll weigh it then with a mag and see if I make weight. If not, I may have to go your route if we do get some sort of clarification on that. 

[LuvDog]

I think you’re on to the correct answer with your first post.  No rules specifically allowing it.

[Janskis]

13 hours ago, threat said:

I'm going to mill my Shadow 2 Slide regardless to mount the Delta Point Pro that's going up top. I'll be doing the work myself most likely because I have the resources and skills to do so.

I'm specially wondering about the frame though, because I'd much rather take weight out of the gun in the god awful thick dustcover the S2 has.

But why? The heavier frame helps keep the recoil tame but a heavy slide in relation to the frame will increase perceived recoil. Why not mill the slide, get a lighter gun AND less perceived recoil for "free"?

[WestTex]

5 hours ago, Janskis said:

But why? The heavier frame helps keep the recoil tame but a heavy slide in relation to the frame will increase perceived recoil. Why not mill the slide, get a lighter gun AND less perceived recoil for "free"?

The concern with the shadow 2 is making weight for carry optics. It tips the scale at 46.9 empty. 

[LuvDog]

My S2 makes weight with just the slide milled in a couple of places.

 

It sounds like you don't like the look of the full length dust cover and want to mill it for weight and aesthetics.  I don't think that would be allowed.

 

[threat]

13 hours ago, WestTex said:

I have a slide en route from CGW that they milled to make weight. They sent me a plastic guide rod from tso, milled one long port in the top as far as they could go, and removed the metal shield on the deltapoint pro. They also took weight out of the grips. 

It should be back to me by Saturday so I'll weigh it then with a mag and see if I make weight. If not, I may have to go your route if we do get some sort of clarification on that. 

Thanks dude let me know what you end up with!

[threat]

8 hours ago, Janskis said:

But why? The heavier frame helps keep the recoil tame but a heavy slide in relation to the frame will increase perceived recoil. Why not mill the slide, get a lighter gun AND less perceived recoil for "free"?

Because being able to lighten the frame would preferable for how I want the gun to behave, and is an easier way to make weight if the slide comes in too heavy. Front heavy guns are not always a benefit. 

[threat]

2 hours ago, LuvDog said:

My S2 makes weight with just the slide milled in a couple of places.

 

It sounds like you don't like the look of the full length dust cover and want to mill it for weight and aesthetics.  I don't think that would be allowed.

 

Can you post your setup please pics?

I certainly do NOT like the dust cover on the S2. Me liking or not though is not the point of this post. My point is to get the frame lighter to make weight for CO.

[MemphisMechanic]

SSI sells a $450 Sig X5 grip frame which can take enough tungsten weights to get the gun up to 43oz... so logcially, doing the reverse would be permitted via the rules.

 

However, if possible, take the needed weight out of your slide. Not your frame. Look at Limited and Open guns of late. They add a metal grip to double the weight of the frame, and lighten the slide as much as they can. It makes for faster but flatter recoiling guns.

 

Edited August 9, 2018 by MemphisMechanic

[threat]

15 minutes ago, MemphisMechanic said:

SSI sells a $450 Sig X5 grip frame which can take enough tungsten weights to get the gun up to 43oz... so logcially, doing the reverse would be permitted via the rules.

 

However, if possible, take the needed weight out of your slide. Not your frame. Look at Limited and Open guns of late. They add a metal grip to double the weight of the frame, and lighten the slide as much as they can. It makes for faster but flatter recoiling guns.

 

This is a good point about the frame being modded on the X5 to increase weight. I think I may have to send an email to DRNOI

On your second point yes, I would normally agree, however getting the FRONT of the gun lighter would be a benefit for me in addition to making the slide lighter.

[JAFO]

1 hour ago, MemphisMechanic said:

SSI sells a $450 Sig X5 grip frame which can take enough tungsten weights to get the gun up to 43oz... so logcially, doing the reverse would be permitted via the rules.

 

 

Not necessarily.  The frame and grip on the X-320's are one and the same, so modifications are allowed under the rules covering grip mods.  The only frame modifications specifically allowed are stippling for texture.  If 21.2a didn't specifically say "stippling", I'd suggest milling serrations into the dust cover as a way to remove weight while "providing texture".

 

I'm wondering whether internally removing weight from the frame, such that it isn't visible from the outside, would be allowed.

[threat]

1 hour ago, JAFO said:

I'm wondering whether internally removing weight from the frame, such that it isn't visible from the outside, would be allowed.

This specifically is what I feel most optimistic about since it is an internal modification

[WestTex]

6 hours ago, LuvDog said:

My S2 makes weight with just the slide milled in a couple of places.

 

It sounds like you don't like the look of the full length dust cover and want to mill it for weight and aesthetics.  I don't think that would be allowed.

 

Awesome! What mag setup and optic are you running to make weight? Do you know the exact weight?

[LuvDog]

1 hour ago, WestTex said:

Awesome! What mag setup and optic are you running to make weight? Do you know the exact weight?

 

I posted a picture somewhere here... it weighed in at 43 oz with a Burris FF3.

[LuvDog]

5 hours ago, threat said:

Can you post your setup please pics?

I certainly do NOT like the dust cover on the S2. Me liking or not though is not the point of this post. My point is to get the frame lighter to make weight for CO.

 

 

Edited August 10, 2018 by LuvDog

[WestTex]

2 hours ago, LuvDog said:

 

I posted a picture somewhere here... it weighed in at 43 oz with a Burris FF3.

So, are you running stock mags to make weight? I was planning on running taran +4 pads and was accounting for extra weight there

[LuvDog]

I haven’t gotten around to getting new basepads yet.
I would need to use mags made before ‘94 to use extended pads.
I’m going add non extension pads and I’ll weigh it again when I get those
I have 2 oz to play with and I can still drop the stainless rod and the extended safety if I need too


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[YVK]

15 hours ago, JAFO said:

 

 

.

 

I'm wondering whether internally removing weight from the frame, such that it isn't visible from the outside, would be allowed.

 

That's what I plan on having done if my S2 doesn't make weight after slide milling.

 

 I too find that S2 is too nose heavy for my tastes. Depending how I feel about it, I might have that done even if makes the weight. 

[threat]

On 8/10/2018 at 9:17 AM, YVK said:

 

That's what I plan on having done if my S2 doesn't make weight after slide milling.

 

 I too find that S2 is too nose heavy for my tastes. Depending how I feel about it, I might have that done even if makes the weight. 

Seeing as I'm using +4 TTI basepads and using a DPP optic I may need to do more to make weight. 

I however do not want to mill my Frame if it will make it illegal

[WestTex]

So as an update. 

 

2 hours ago, threat said:

Seeing as I'm using +4 TTI basepads and using a DPP optic I may need to do more to make weight. 

I however do not want to mill my Frame if it will make it illegal

I weighed my gun today with a factory mag and it weighs in at 44.7 ounces. With my tti +4 pads and grams follower and spring I am at 45.5 ounces. 

 

This is with slide milling and the removal of the dpp hood. The grips have also been milled but I may try it with scale grips if someone could chime in with the weight that happens to have them.