Do polymer guns serve a purpose in USPSA production anymore

[Varooom]

I have been shooting for over 50 years, just shot my first USPSA  production match earlier this month.

I have a G17, 320X5 and CZ Shadow 2.

I suck.

I used the CZ for my first match because I shoot it best in practice. 

I don't think I would have been any better or worse with the G17 or X5.

I will continue with the CZ not because its metal, but because I shoot it best.

This is a great thread.

Don't worry about the weapon, practice, practice, practice with whatever works best for you.

Ford, Chevy or Mopar.

Blond, brunette, or red head.  They are all good.

Varooom

[redpillregret]

I thought I would update this thread. I’ve been shooting for about a year now. I’ve made five sanctioned matches and multiple outlaw matches. I’ve also taken one training course. Late last year, I was able to do some horse trading and now have several guns appropriate for competition including the Shadow 2.

I’ve done training sessions and matches with the Shadow 2, Glock 34, VP9, and Sig X5.

Let’s qualify with the fact that I carried a Glock daily for over ten years but also shot a VP9 most from the time they came out until last year.

My Glock 34 I had traded for as a “turn key” setup from a 3gunner a few years ago in anticipation of getting into USPSa. I never could get good scores with the gun. I also would get a lot of uncalled Ds and Mikes. Finally one day I decided to bench the gun a 25 yards. My impact was 6-8” high. Groups were 12”. No wonder I was getting so frustrated! I kept trying to figure out what was wrong with the gun. Finally, I noticed the front sight was slightly loose. Groups tightened up just a bit, but were still wider than an A-zone at 25. Then I really scrubbed the barrel. I the process I noticed the barrel looks to have been filed on on back of the hood. I was getting pretty frustrated. I picked up another barrel and now it shoots 4” groups at 25 benched. POI still is high but it’s close enough.

Having gotten the Glock to be acceptable, it still isn’t making me superstar. My scores on standard drills just aren’t there and I get a lot more wide Charlie’s and Deltas with it than my others.

Shooting the VP9, I attained my best score overall in the rankings. I seem to almost always end up with an A first round. The gun just fits me. I think the added recoil of a polymer gun maybe makes me be more visually patient? I do feel that on wider transitions I over-swing the target. It’s just something I need to work on.

Shooting the X5 in training, I haven’t competed with one, it seemed to be a good balance between weight and accuracy, but the trigger just didn’t work well for me at speed. Perhaps I should have put a Grey Guns kit in it. I set it up for Carry Optics but I didn’t like the Romeo dot it was cut for. I ended up trading it for a Shadow 2 backup gun.

That brings me to the Shadow 2. I really do love this gun. The DA pull has taken some work but it seems to work fine. The gun seems to stay on target better. I get my best B8s with this gun as well as the best scores on standardized drills. It really does seem to compliment my propensity to over-drive the gun on transitions. Additionally, with my elbow injuries it seems to have enough heft that my grip loosening later in the day doesn’t cause me to dive low left. Unfortunately, the weight does seems to get heavy at the end of training days (this was quite evident in the training class with the gun). Additionally, the metal frame doesn’t seem to “give” like the poly guns so I do feel more of the recoil in my elbow.

. I still haven’t strung together a match performance as good as I put up with the VP9. Perhaps it’s because I haven’t trained as long on the Shadow 2

So where does that leave me? There are certainly pros and cons of almost any pistol. The polymer pistols STILL have a place. At the end of the day one is best to make a decision and stick to it as evidence by my best score coming from the pistol I’ve trained the most on! Though I am pushing through with the CZ and having trained hard on it since purchasing, I don’t think I’ll top it with the VP9 again.




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[Racinready300ex]

1 hour ago, redpillregret said:

. I still haven’t strung together a match performance as good as I put up with the VP9. Perhaps it’s because I haven’t trained as long on the Shadow 2
 

 

I think this line sums it up pretty good. As many above said the gun really has little impact on your performance. Just keep training and your scores will improve.

[Derdang]

I feel grip and recoil management play a bigger role then how heavy the gun is. Also believe you need to enjoy the gun you shoot.

[Chrisperkins027]

I would have to agree with Derdang. Comfort with a gun can overcome a lot of what many perceive as the disadvantages of polymer framed guns.


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[Malarky112]

All of us are all so different that what works great for one shooter might stink for the next guy.  We all have different sized hands, arms, wrists, injuries etc that getting a gun that fits you just right is much better than getting a "better" gun.  I've been shooting my G34 for about 3 years now and have really gotten the hang of it.  I was just recently offered a deal on a CZ shadow that was too good to pass up, so I'l be running that gun next season and we'll see where it brings me.

[bimmer1980]

Changed from a Sp01 Shadow to a 320 xfive.

Doubles are easier with the shadow, no doubt, the sights come back pretty nice. But i am used to the gun, and only IF you have the perfect grip. What is kind of hard to do if you have hands that are a bit large for the gun.

The xfive doesn´t have a much harder recoil impulse, what is pretty nice for a plastic gun, but the stock trigger is much harder to use for fast doubles.

Transitions are much easier with the xfive. That was obvious right away. Draws are faster too, but the gun behaves more shaky because it is so light. The first few draws i almost threw the gun away, beeing used to use a bit muscle for the steel gun.    

 

I think, it is more easy to shoot a shadow or any other steel gun fast and accurate than a polymer gun, (for beginners that can be huge) but once you learned the polymer gun and got the trigger (in my case) like you like it, it doesn´t make a big difference. The transitions where really easier, faster and more accurate right away.

 

You maybe have to train harder to shoot a polymer gun faster/better.   

But you also have to train harder to transition a steel gun better/faster/more accurate.

[Malarky112]

On 11/28/2019 at 3:25 PM, bimmer1980 said:

Changed from a Sp01 Shadow to a 320 xfive.

Doubles are easier with the shadow, no doubt, the sights come back pretty nice. But i am used to the gun, and only IF you have the perfect grip. What is kind of hard to do if you have hands that are a bit large for the gun.

The xfive doesn´t have a much harder recoil impulse, what is pretty nice for a plastic gun, but the stock trigger is much harder to use for fast doubles.

Transitions are much easier with the xfive. That was obvious right away. Draws are faster too, but the gun behaves more shaky because it is so light. The first few draws i almost threw the gun away, beeing used to use a bit muscle for the steel gun.    

 

I think, it is more easy to shoot a shadow or any other steel gun fast and accurate than a polymer gun, (for beginners that can be huge) but once you learned the polymer gun and got the trigger (in my case) like you like it, it doesn´t make a big difference. The transitions where really easier, faster and more accurate right away.

 

You maybe have to train harder to shoot a polymer gun faster/better.   

But you also have to train harder to transition a steel gun better/faster/more accurate.

I’m still getting used to my Shadow...but I recently handled a friends X5 Legion and it seemed to feel perfect in my hands. Very tempting! 

[bimmer1980]

21 hours ago, Malarky112 said:

I’m still getting used to my Shadow...but I recently handled a friends X5 Legion and it seemed to feel perfect in my hands. Very tempting! 

The 320 xfive is a cool gun in the us. The modularity is nice, the price is nice too.

 

In Germany it costs the same like a S2 and you don´t get the parts.

 

Here, the shadow is clearly the better gun (in my eyes) for the bug. But i like the plastic gun too, so i shoot it.

[Charlestiller]

I know a lot of competitive shooters that like to shoot “plastic” guns in competition because they carry one for concealed carry or on duty and like to have the similarities between the platforms. This may not be a big deal to most people but it is a consideration for some.


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[ATMester]

Both of these world class champions “agree,” that a heavy frame is a good thing, when it comes to shooting major. 

With other words,  polymer sucks when shooting .40 according to the pictures...

 

When it comes to shooting minor, they have no options, if they like it or not...

 

 

 

[bimmer1980]

On 3/28/2020 at 1:15 AM, ATMester said:

Both of these world class champions “agree,” that a heavy frame is a good thing, when it comes to shooting major. 

With other words,  polymer sucks when shooting .40 according to the pictures...

 

When it comes to shooting minor, they have no options, if they like it or not...

 

 

 

 

According to all these steel guns in limited/standard, even steel must suck, as there are many with weights on the steel gun...

 

This one World-Class Champion even won everything without any weights. Called Production. Oh, and against a lot of heavy steel guns.

 

Your argument is good for the bar, not more.

[ATMester]

2 hours ago, bimmer1980 said:

Your argument is good for the bar, not more.

 
Not my argument pal,

Pictures just telling stories...(limited gun stories not production gun stories )

Edited March 29, 2020 by ATMester

[bimmer1980]

2 hours ago, ATMester said:

 
Not my argument pal,

Pictures just telling stories...(limited gun stories not production gun stories )

You tell the story, not the pictures...

 

https://www.google.de/search?q=sig+X-Weight&hl=de&sxsrf=ALeKk03BCczLMo1AAaxMgxzO2-H8E-AwNA:1585522704164&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjlmcKs5MDoAhWSM-wKHZQzDZwQ_AUoAnoECAwQBA&biw=1697&bih=966#imgrc=RwMJvsgykxMUnM&imgdii=YJcGFOkjx6VJBM

 

Or does these pictures tell the story of steel sucking, cause you can put even more weight on?

 

 

 

 

Edited March 29, 2020 by bimmer1980

[JimmyZip]

I’m thinking that the thing that improved my shooting skills the most was a timer.

Regardless of firearm, the timer will give you metrics to show improvement.

A timer will make you a better shooter.

[CocoBolo]

Set up a target at 25 yards if you can hit the a zone 4 out of 5 shots that gun will work, set up a target at 50 yards, that is about as long as we shoot put an 8" pie plate on it and if you can keep the shots on the plate you are good to go.   Most new shooters ignore the most import thing in shooting, the platform,  if you don't have a good platform the rest doesn't matter.  Movement skills, it isn't how fast you get to the next box it is how fast you get there ready to shoot, work on those skills, positioning is huge  a few inches left or right will save seconds.  My first match I got my ass handed to me by a little old lady in her 80's,  shooting a Bersa Thunder.   You can spend a butt ton of money looking for the magic, but I can tell you the magic is learning the skills in the game and shooting is just one of them.   Like the old farts say it is the Indian and not the bow.   Stage analysis skills come with time, some times it makes sense to run up and others the long shot, but then you have to know your strengths and weaknesses, which change over time.