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Gviz

Help starting load for 9 major using VV 3n38 and 124 CMJ

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Posted (edited)

Hi everyone just new to OPEN. I have a 9 major full-size with a scheumann barrel no holes and a bedel 3hole Ti comp. I worked up a load using autocomp 7.6gr. With a PD 115gr JHP OAL 1.165 which netted 172pf.

 

My question is what should be my starting point if I went with a MG 124 CMJ with VV 3n38  OAL 1.165? Thanks in advance! 

Edited by Gviz

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Thanks for the info. I will start my load 8.6 and work my way up. 

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While you're at it, you might want to work up a load with the 3N38 and 115 gr JHP's

you have lying around    :) 

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, Hi-Power Jack said:

While you're at it, you might want to work up a load with the 3N38 and 115 gr JHP's

you have lying around    :) 

 

Will do sir ?

 

By the way, I started with autocomp because I was not comfortable with filling up the brass to the brim with powder. Now that’s in the books.  I’m now gaining some experience with loading 9 major. Thanks again for the inputs and recommendations ? very much appreciate it.

 

Hopefully with using 124gr bullet heads the powder won’t be too high up the neck of the brass... I hate to be spilling powder and cause inconsistent loads in the process. 

Edited by Gviz

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With 124 it won't be to bad, but  with 115 You will be tipping the rim.. 

That's the only issue with vv 3n38, otherwise it's probably one of the best powders for 9 major. 

 

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3N38 is as top tier as it gets. I ran it for a bit but loading was just a bit too much for me. I'm using HS-6 now but switched from MG to PD JHP's. They're a bit faster out of my barrel and might try 3N38 with them soon. If you're patient with loading you will love it. Don't let the volume scare you. Gives "fill ER' up" a whole different meaning. 

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I run 9gr of 3n38 behind a 115 and it is very full, but the kernel shape seems to help keep spillage to a minimum.  

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7 hours ago, Gviz said:

 

  I hate to be spilling powder and cause inconsistent loads in the process. 

 

I hear you ...

 

That's why I am still using WAC - powder level is nice and low

and I ain't spillin' nuttin'    :) 

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11 hours ago, Part_time_redneck said:

3N38 is as top tier as it gets. I ran it for a bit but loading was just a bit too much for me. I'm using HS-6 now but switched from MG to PD JHP's. They're a bit faster out of my barrel and might try 3N38 with them soon. If you're patient with loading you will love it. Don't let the volume scare you. Gives "fill ER' up" a whole different meaning. 

 

That’s what I’ve read 3n38 received a lot of praises so had to have a go at it. Then I will try HS6 with 115. Thanks for the recommendation ?

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Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, Hi-Power Jack said:

 

I hear you ...

 

That's why I am still using WAC - powder level is nice and low

and I ain't spillin' nuttin'    :) 

 

With my limited knowledge of reloading I went with the most talked about recipe. I read some of Sarge and your comments on why you like WAC and that made me decide to try that as my first 9 major powder.

 

 A lot of the members suggested to pair it with a lighter bullet from the normal 124gr that most OPEN shooters use. They say that the lighter the bullet 115gr the more powder to make PF and more gas to work the comp better. So with 7.6gr of WAC , PD 115gr JHP , OAL 1.165 , PF 172. This would be my best load for WAC.

I have 1 range time and 1 match using it under my belt. I loaded 2000rds and I still have 1400 left. I’m still good for 2 matches and a practice session. 

 

I have nothing to compare the WAC load that I did since that was my first attempt with reloading 9 major and shooting an OPEN gun.This gives me time to experiment and gather data on the 2nd powder I would like to try.

3n38 with MG 124 CMJ OAL 1.165  and WSP primers was recommended by my gunsmith to be the optimum recipe for my build. I will have to check for myself if I could feel the difference and which powder and bullet head weight would I like better in the end (WAC 115gr vs 3n38 124gr.) I know it’s not a direct comparison since I will be using 124gr vs 115 but with my reloading experience I think I would have to settle using 124gr so I won’t run into spilling powder if I persue  to use 115gr.

 

i don’t know what to expect so fingers crossed ? 

 

 

Edited by Gviz

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It sure makes a LOT of sense to experiment, as you're planning on doing.

 

I just went the opposite way - started with HS6 and 115's, then went to WAC with 124's ...

 

I saw a slight difference - the HS6 is flatter than the WAC.

 

BUT, that's the LEAST of my problems - shooting The Very Flattest Load would

NOT get me from a low B to even a high B    :(   

 

So, I bought a TON of WAC and a TON of 124 bullets, and I still have them.

 

Maybe after they're all gone, I might buy a pound of 3N38 and give it a try - but not

until I use up a TON of WAC.   :) 

 

From my reading here, the 3N38 and the 115 grain bullets is The Best Load.   But,

I prefer the convenience of NOT having powder sloshing all over my SDB and

bullets not separating from the case when being jammed into the chamber   :) 

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Gviz, 

If you find that you like 3N38 but the volume gives you grief you might experiment with Accurate #7. It's much more dense powder and makes loading high charge weights much easier. The downside is some people find it close to filthy on the dirty scale. A lot of guys love it though. Just an alternative. 

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Couldnt stop myself from thinking about how inconsistent I would be if I did  compare 115 vs 124 with different powders so I worked up a load of WAC 6.8, 7.0, 7.2 with MG 124 CMJ OAL 1.165. Would like to make 172PF hoping I get close...

 

Im starting with 6.8gr of WAC im guessing it will be close to where I needed to start. Now just need to set a date to chrono these loads.

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57 minutes ago, Gviz said:

 

Im starting with 6.8gr of WAC & guessing it will be close 

 

It should be close.

 

You'll probably discover that the lighter bullet feels a little better   :)

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12 minutes ago, Hi-Power Jack said:

 

It should be close.

 

You'll probably discover that the lighter bullet feels a little better   :)

It will 

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4 hours ago, Part_time_redneck said:

Gviz, 

If you find that you like 3N38 but the volume gives you grief you might experiment with Accurate #7. It's much more dense powder and makes loading high charge weights much easier. The downside is some people find it close to filthy on the dirty scale. A lot of guys love it though. Just an alternative. 

10.5gr of AA7 under a 115 feels great, isn't overly full, and I didn't find it dirty at all.

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Fyi

124 PD jhp

1.170 oal mixed brass

5in KKM barrel  and NO holes

11 port comp ... 5 on top 3 draft on each side.

 

8.5 grs 3n38

1401 avg

173 PF

 

Love this load!!!!

20180429_172948.jpg

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Thanks for the info rxdc. Will have to start 8.4gr just to be sure ?

 

i ordered a pound just waiting for it to arrive so I can do test loads and chrono WAC and 3n38 side by side 

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7 hours ago, Gviz said:

 Will have to start 8.4gr just to be sure ?

 

I'd start lower than 8.4 - you might need only 8.0

to reach PF 172 - depends on your barrel   :) 

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Posted (edited)

Sorry it took so long...

 

Lets do a short recap. I started with  autocomp 7.6gr. With a PD 115gr JHP OAL 1.165 which netted 172pf 

 

looking to compare 115 with WAC  vs 124 and vv3n38 thought that it was not a direct comparison 115 vs 124 with different powders. ? so to have  a better comparison I started loading up MG 124gr CMJ with WAC so I have loads to compare it with the VV 3n38

 

so I loaded MG 124 CMJ  and worked it up at 7.0 grains of wac to get 172pf.  While shooting different loads I could not feel a difference while I was testing the  124s it felt the same as my 115s and since I did not have any 115 with me while I was testing my reloads I did not have anything to compare it with.

 

So i went back the next week and shot 115 and 124 and still I could not feel the difference. I loaded 2 mags and switched them around did not check which had the 115 or 124s still could not say which was which. Forgot to bring the chrono so I was not able to check if I have the same PF for both bullet heads...

 

next practice i  set up the chrono and shot 115 and it’s 172 PF then checked the 124s and it checked out at 172 PF shot them side by side again for the 3rd time and man I really could not feel any difference hahahaha! Now I’m beginning to think is this still worth the work and investment lol I can’t even feel 115 vs 124. Would I be able to feel the difference of WAC vs vv 3n38 In my hands? I’m sure my pocket will feel the difference ? 

 

My main goal was to load VV 3n38 with  MG 124 CMJ with VV 3n38  OAL 1.165 but before that I wanted to setup my 650 to load 115s without making a mess and sacrifice load consistency. So I ordered some 650 mods to stop powder spillage. Now that the parts arrived I started reloading 115 with vv 3n38 but the darn thing keeps flicking powder even when I go very slow. Everytime it goes to index on the next station I hear a faint click and it flicks powder upwards. I’ve been cutting springs and changing  the balls with different combinations from other mods maker and still could not get rid of that ticking sound and darn powder flicking every single time it moves from station 3 to 4! Now I have cut too much of the spring the shell plate won’t click into place and I’m rolling the primers and shoving them sideways on the primer pocket. Grrr very frustrating. 

 

 

 

Edited by Gviz

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If you cannot get 3N38 to work, try how you do with 3N37. Pressure will be higher and gas less, but you need less of it and it seems very compact to me.

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Do I have to take out my mr bullet feeder and just put the bullet on the down stroke to avoid spillage? Is that how you guys are loading 3n38 with 115gr bullets?

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3 hours ago, Gviz said:

Do I have to take out my mr bullet feeder and just put the bullet on the down stroke to avoid spillage? Is that how you guys are loading 3n38 with 115gr bullets?

The bullet feeder actually helps prevent spillage by leaving only 1 station where the powder can spill during rotation. 

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