X5 (or any 320) with single sear spring

[ddc]

I've seen this referenced a couple of times. Is anybody running a 320 with a single spring?

Feedback?

Thanks!

[Sig0431]

Was hoping you would get some replies as I have seen this from time to time mentioned as well. 

[BillGarlandJr]

I ran a P320 with a single sear spring for most of 2015. It was ok, but I don’t think the small benefit in terms of trigger pull weight was so great as to outweigh the risk of having a problem. I’ve since just shot the stock trigger in my X5. It allows me to prep the trigger aggressively and I know it will be reliable for many many rounds.

[texasdawg]

Im running one sear spring. After tuning and polishing the parts, with about 800 rounds through the gun, I have not seen any uneven wear across the sear engagement surface. Before I polished the sear, it had some type of coating on it, which I have not been able to get anyone to say what it is, showing signs of "chipping" at the edge of the sear. I honed and polished the sear and notice no further wear as before. Not a high round count yet, though,,,

[Daemunx1]

11 hours ago, BillGarlandJr said:

I ran a P320 with a single sear spring for most of 2015. It was ok, but I don’t think the small benefit in terms of trigger pull weight was so great as to outweigh the risk of having a problem. I’ve since just shot the stock trigger in my X5. It allows me to prep the trigger aggressively and I know it will be reliable for many many rounds.

In your opinion whats the risk? After removing one from mine I’m actually surprised how little the pull changed. I expected a greater decrease in felt pull but it seems like much of the pull weight is coming from other parts of the mechanism. The safety disconnect movement, friction between trigger bar etc. 

[BillGarlandJr]

I don’t know if there is any really, but the system was made to work with two springs, and anytime you alter something from its original design there’s a possibility it might not work at some point. Like you, I didn’t notice much difference between one and two sear springs to make me think it was worthwhile to run just one. I find the stock trigger suits my shooting very well anyways.

Edited March 5, 2018 by BillGarlandJr
Additional info

[ninjaboot]

Ive been running 1 sear spring for almost 2 years now and there is no abnormal wear on the sear that I can see. Prob around 8k-10 rounds? I still have the non upgraded version also. Never a malfunction other than a dirty extractor channel causing ejection issues. 

[rocket99]

Does it make a difference as to which sear spring you remove?


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[ninjaboot]

 I don't think it makes a difference. 

[Marshal82]

So is the little round spring under the safety lever in the FCU really needed? 

 

Since it interacts with the safety level in the slide which also has a spring and is actuated by the trigger bar  and trigger bar spring, it seems like the little round spring could be omitted to reduce trigger weight.

 

Also how do you remove the reset level/dis-connector to smooth out the reset? My X5 seems really sluggish on the reset. 

[Jeff_Alan]

Remove it and let me know how that works. 

[Daemunx1]

1 hour ago, Marshal82 said:

So is the little round spring under the safety lever in the FCU really needed? 

 

Since it interacts with the safety level in the slide which also has a spring and is actuated by the trigger bar  and trigger bar spring, it seems like the little round spring could be omitted to reduce trigger weight.

 

Also how do you remove the reset level/dis-connector to smooth out the reset? My X5 seems really sluggish on the reset. 

 That sounds like an epicly bad idea. Taking out one of 2 sear springs to reduce pull is one thing. Taking out a spring that could completely disable a safety feature is completely different story. I’ve only removed one sear spring till I can get my hands on a GG comp sear and springs. Just spend a few $ and take the proper route to reducing pull dont go messing with functionality especially in regards to a safety function. 

Edited March 8, 2018 by Daemunx1

[Marshal82]

It's not disabling the safety from what I can tell. The safety is still actuated by the trigger bar and the trigger bar spring. It still has resistance from the safety spring in the slide. From what I can deduce it's only removing the extra resistance. Sure I could spend the money on a GG sear kit which would likely be better anyway. 

 

I'm currently using a Apex flat trigger and have polished any contact surface that I know of. 

[Resjudicata]

17 minutes ago, Marshal82 said:

It's not disabling the safety from what I can tell. The safety is still actuated by the trigger bar and the trigger bar spring. It still has resistance from the safety spring in the slide. From what I can deduce it's only removing the extra resistance. Sure I could spend the money on a GG sear kit which would likely be better anyway. 

 

I'm currently using a Apex flat trigger and have polished any contact surface that I know of. 

Even assuming that it works you are talking about an ounce, maybe, of weight from that spring. Makes no sense to do it.

 

The weight of the trigger pull on these guns is due to the trigger return spring, sear springs and the friction/over cut interface between the sear surface and the striker hook. Those are the things and modifying the geometry of how your finger movement interacts with the sear are what will make a difference. That's why GG has the parts in their kit that they do.

[Daemunx1]

2 hours ago, Marshal82 said:

It's not disabling the safety from what I can tell. The safety is still actuated by the trigger bar and the trigger bar spring. It still has resistance from the safety spring in the slide. From what I can deduce it's only removing the extra resistance. Sure I could spend the money on a GG sear kit which would likely be better anyway. 

 

I'm currently using a Apex flat trigger and have polished any contact surface that I know of. 

If I’m not mistaken that spring wasnt there before the voluntary recall/upgrade. Prior to that I’ve seen videos showing that it could rotate up and down freely with no resistance. Also from what I’ve read most ppl actually recieved their post upgrade gun with a lighter pull than it left with. If sig felt that it was benefitial to safety to add it and they were able to do so without increasing trigger pull then it should be left alone. 

 

For competition purposes removing that spring may even qualify as modifying the guns safety mechanisms which would disqualify the gun. (Specifically I believe its says you may not disable any safety mechanism, whether or not removing that spring disables at least some aspect of the mechanism is something that imo shouldnt be risked)

Edited March 8, 2018 by Daemunx1

[Marshal82]

Update - Removing the lever spring reduces the weight, not by much, but noticeable. However The larger issue is the striker and sear interface. If you inspect the striker face it's set at an angle and mine had a burr right on the edge, I straightened and corrected the striker face. This had the most dramatic change into the trigger pull for a smooth and clean break. 

 

I haven't felt a GG or Burke trigger but they can't be far off. I have a very smooth and light pre-travel with a nice clean break at 3.5 lbs. I am using the Apex trigger mainly because it breaks at a slightly different angle that I prefer. No little coil spring, all safeties fully operational. I'm using both factory sear springs with good sear action and engagement. 

Edited March 9, 2018 by Marshal82

[Daemunx1]

Why would you remove a safety related spring for an oz as opposed to a sear spring for potentially more? Why even remove anything if your pull is already at 3.5 lbs? Although you say “the safety is working” it doesnt necessarily mean you still have the same drop protection you should have. If they put it there I doubt it was just for the heck of it. Your gun, your call ofc. I just wouldnt do that any more than I'd shave off a chunk of a sear.

Edited March 9, 2018 by Daemunx1

[Marshal82]

Removing the circle spring or a sear spring have similar results. I agree the sear spring would yield in a lower weight once you got to the wall the trigger pull. The circle spring added weight on the entire travel of the trigger, including the pre-travel. I wanted to keep both springs on the sear to keep proper sear engagement. 

 

As far as risking drop safety, it's much less risky than removing a sear spring. The trigger bar and trigger bar spring still contain and hold the lever in place just like before. 

[Jumprun13k]

Im running a single sear spring currently, but I would like to get the Gray guns sear and lightened springs to change things up. Already have the Grey Guns trigger matched with the Apex trigger bar and it is better, but still has some room for improvement

[ddc]

Since asking the OP I've installed one of the newly released GG Pelt2 trigger kits with the trigger bar spring, sear and sear springs in the X5.

 

This made a fairly dramatic difference.

 

All the following pull weights are from using a Lyman digital pull guage and pulling the trigger from the bottom just above where the slight curve forward is.

 

Factory trigger after detail strip, clean, lube: 4 1/2 lbs.

After installing only the Pelt2 trigger: 4 lbs.

After installing entire Pelt2 kit: 2 lbs 14 oz

 

This is still a fairly new gun. And the kit is brand new. Pull may drop a bit more as parts wear in.

 

I'm no longer interested in experimenting with a single sear spring.

Edited March 16, 2018 by ddc

[RH45]

17 hours ago, ddc said:

Since asking the OP I've installed one of the newly released GG Pelt2 trigger kits with the trigger bar spring, sear and sear springs in the X5.

 

This made a fairly dramatic difference.

 

All the following pull weights are from using a Lyman digital pull guage and pulling the trigger from the bottom just above where the slight curve forward is.

 

Factory trigger after detail strip, clean, lube: 4 1/2 lbs.

After installing only the Pelt2 trigger: 4 lbs.

After installing entire Pelt2 kit: 2 lbs 14 oz

 

This is still a fairly new gun. And the kit is brand new. Pull may drop a bit more as parts wear in.

 

I'm no longer interested in experimenting with a single sear spring.

My factory triggers come in at 5-5 1/4 pounds

Although the Xfive's trigger is slightly lighter, according to the gauge, I think it feels like crap.

The factory trigger on my Kimber Solo is over 5 pounds, but, feels much better that my stock 320s.

I certainly don't expect any plastic gun to be able to achieve as nice a trigger as a 1911/2011 with a good trigger job, but, my Apexed M&Ps are acceptable @ a fairly crisp, 36-40 ounces

On wait list for Gray Guns competition kits.

[Daemunx1]

Its definetly a different break than I’m used to. With my other pistols they have a distinct wall before break. A light takeup followed by a solid resistance where the trigger doesnt really move at all. You just increase weight on it till it breaks crisply.  

 

My x5 has typical light takeup then resistance increases but theres never really a wall. The weight is just there and you can feel the sear sliding free of the striker till it slips off. My only guess is that its to do with the sear/striker geometry. 

 

With a trigger guage I would guess it would read quite light but its pull weight is spread out over a range instead of concentrated right before the break. 

 

My other pistols are a hk vp9, springfield xd, sw m&p shield and a beretta px4. All of them feel fairly similar. Some more/less crisp and heavier/lighter, but the x5 is a much different beast.