IRC 2018 and 2019

[revoman]

 

16 hours ago, mchapman said:

Trophies by placement, prize table by random.

 

15 hours ago, MWP said:

Random prize table? So no reward for putting in hard work? 

 

3 hours ago, jhgtyre said:

I agree.  Order of finish should determine when you go to the prize table.  I'm not likely to go near the top but I still prefer to see those who put in the time to practice get what they deserve.  IDPA does the random prize table thing and it reminds me of my when my daughters played YMCA basketball and soccer.  If the score got too one sided they would cover up the scoreboard.  Total snowflake BS.

 

1 hour ago, swordfish said:

Well it’s a good thing you’re not in charge of it then

 

Idea and for the prizes and rewards.

Say the top finisher in Open, Limited and Limited 6 and Classic each get a cash award and trophy based upon the number of entries in their division and the overall winner just gets a trophy as they will have already won one of the divisions and in other disciplines where there is multiple divisions shot they only recognize the overall but do not reward them. If my memory serves me right an Open revolver has won every IRC to date so to say, there is an advantage and that advantage should not be rewarded twice just doesn't seem right.   They would have a choice of the cash award or pick of the prize table based on the order of finish in the match. In other words if the open had a total score of 300 and the limited had a score of 302 the open would pick first from the prize table if they forgo the cash award. If they choose a prize then the cash award goes to the prize table.

Then the prizes would go random for the rest of us as we all know that in reality we are all losers in our division as you can only have one champion in each division (remember 2nd place is only first place of the losers or as Reese Bobby put it "If you ain't first your last") or you can go by order of finish if you like. 

With the cash awards for the division winners they are rewarded for their win based upon the number of entries in their division and with numbers for this years IRC as follows:

Limited - 50

Open - 36

Limited 6 - 24

Classic - 21

The highest payout would go to the Limited Champion followed by Open then Limited 6 and then Classic. If cash awards were foregone by all the division winners then they would go in this order to the prize table by their final score.

Open

Limited

Classic

Limited 6

Ideas and suggestions will help mchapman with the task he has taken on and I am deeply appreciative the he has volunteered  to put on this match so that we can partake. As much money as I spend to go to these matches I could stay home and buy a couple of what I am going to take off the prize table. I love to shoot and see old friends and to see the top in each division recognized for their hard work. 

Remember try to be part of the solution not part of the problem.

 

Thank you again Mark for doing this. I will see you in September.

Dean Gomez

LKS16

 

[alecmc]

I can see both side of the argument here, on one hand you have " the same 10 guys who always win the good stuff " and on the other you have the " bulk of the match competitors which is made up of of B, C and D class shooters who typically finish in the mid to lower half of the overalls.

 

I can see why in theory random prize table would seem like a good idea, everybody gets an equal shot at the good prizes and there is no way to show favoritism to one class of shooter or the other. The problem with this is that ICORE is at its base a competition, a competition has winners, and a competition has losers. Ignoring this fact, like 'jhgtyre' said ,  is similar to the " everybody wins! " mentality we see alot today.  

 

The people who usually win are the ones who put in the countless hours in training, costs associated with reloading ammo for training and match use, equipment costs, the time off work and away from family , and the money it takes to travel half way across the country.

 

Now, I'd pretty comfortably say that first and foremost we all do this for FUN first, and nobody is doing it to win whatever prize there may be at the match, because lets face it - if this were a monetary scheme to get rich we would all be better off just staying home and just buying the " prize " out-right. 

 

There should always be the notion of if you train hard, and do well enough at the match , there might be a little something at the end of the rainbow for your efforts, or maybe something that would help off-set the costs associated with attending these matches.

 

This is once again a competition, a race, there are winners and losers. And the IRC is the once a year Championship match and should be treated with that prestige.

 

That being said, ultimately the final decision falls on what the MD feels is best for his match. It's kind of difficult to talk about how you feel prize tables should be set without sounding entitled or selfish about it, but there should be a civilized conversation on the pros and cons of each and why they were chosen.

 

 

[JohnRodriguez]

many years ago at a match in Tucson, I was the revo division winner any myself and the open and limited division winners were the in the last 10 people who where drawn in a random match, with me being dead last.   Random draw match suck, period.   I will not stay for the drawing.   Why don't you lower the price of the match if we don't stay for the drawing?  

 

one of the best matches that I love, because you get to shoot a top notch, test your skills match is the western state revolver match.  Low entry fee, great stages and no trophies or prizes.

[swordfish]

Random drawing I think helps increase the amount of people that show up to a match. Even if you suck all day shooting, you still might win the last stage (prize table). I'm tired of going to major matches where you get the top guys from all over the country flying in and taking the best stuff. Great, Daniel Horner really needs a new gun. But random makes it a good incentive for newer shooters, and it might increase their chances of coming back next year.

I shot a state championship with a newer shooter and he ended up getting drawn like 5th or 6th and picked up a gun, and now I see him at matches more often.

Also top overall is a dumb award. Congrats, you shoot open. That's like "High Lady," where if you put two people of equal skill together, the one shooting open is gonna win over production every day. Which is why there are different divisions to begin with.

I'm gonna invent a 20 shot moonclip revolver rifle. PCC for the IRC. Then win high overall, and get first pick at the prize table, and see everyone whine about it.

To put it another way, say you win your division, but you're shooting some slow class. I dunno what it would be for revo, but for 3gun maybe heavy or something. Congrats, you just won, all your hard work paid off. But you're halfway down the list because everyone else shot limited or open and you just can't compete, so even though you won, you still have no chance at anything good on the prize table. Would definitely make a lot of people switch divisions if that's all they were after.

I almost always get drawn last at a prize table. Sometimes there's good stuff at the end. Most times not. But I don't come to win the prize table, I came to shoot. If I really want something, I can go and buy it.

[longbarrel]

I'm like Revoman,  I was partial to the old way when you shot half days and had a shoot off at the end.  I really liked the couple of side matches that were always offered too.

I realize it takes some extra personnel on the side matches.  

 

[jhgtyre]

6 hours ago, swordfish said:

Also top overall is a dumb award. Congrats, you shoot open. That's like "High Lady," where if you put two people of equal skill together, the one shooting open is gonna win over production every day. Which is why there are different divisions to begin with.

Overall is a dumb concept, not just an award, so I agree.  We all shoot different divisions so division awards are all that matter, both for plaques and prizes.  Still, I would go order of finish within the division for prizes.

[pskys2]

Random draw prizes never increase participation, that's just a pipe dream.

Need to reward Division winners.  Not a bad idea to reward Class winners. A few random draws for nice prizes are good.

Beyond that, either go by the finish or save the money and lower the price.

Nice trophies are great, one of the nicest I've seen are nice looking Prize Cups you can actually use.  

The worst are paper certificates.

[seanc]

On 11/21/2017 at 11:41 PM, MWP said:

Shooting the match back to back isn't an advantage. You can only do what you've come prepared to do.

 

In fact, most actually perform better then first time. 

 

I think I have shot back to back twice when it was at the hogue range.   1st gun was always better, and the second day I was pretty damn tired.   I vividly remember, both times, having 3-4 stages left and just wanting it to be over.     That's temperamental others mileage may vary.

[sargenv]

I will suggest that a hybrid method is what I use for major matches we hold at Richmond.. 

 

Match prizes are order of finish, by division if the divisions are large enough.. 

 

Money Plaques go to Winner in Divisions. Smaller money plaques go to Category winners.

 

Every competitor has a single raffle ticket and can win prizes from a separate drawing pool. There is no way to get added chances and the raffle is only open to competitors (no way to buy in).. The top prize is usually a gun or valuable prize, every subsequent prize falls in value.. so that the person drawn first gets a chance as the top prize, and then it trickles down as people are drawn and prizes are given out. MUST BE PRESENT TO WIN...

 

My $.02

Edited January 4, 2018 by sargenv

[jhgtyre]

On 1/4/2018 at 8:33 AM, sargenv said:

I will suggest that a hybrid method is what I use for major matches we hold at Richmond.. 

 

Match prizes are order of finish, by division if the divisions are large enough.. 

 

Money Plaques go to Winner in Divisions. Smaller money plaques go to Category winners.

 

Every competitor has a single raffle ticket and can win prizes from a separate drawing pool. There is no way to get added chances and the raffle is only open to competitors (no way to buy in).. The top prize is usually a gun or valuable prize, every subsequent prize falls in value.. so that the person drawn first gets a chance as the top prize, and then it trickles down as people are drawn and prizes are given out. MUST BE PRESENT TO WIN...

 

My $.02

That all sounds pretty reasonable.  I like the idea of raffle tickets only open to competitors with no way to buy in or get extra tickets.

[sargenv]

It's worked pretty well for us.. It works out for the extra prizes that seem to crop up after everyone has "walked the table" and no one is left to walk and what do I do with the rest of this stuff?

[mchapman]

As difficult as it is to get stuff for the prize table, after all awards and everyone has "walked" have taken place, I would save any leftovers for the next match that I was going to have that had a prize table.

[mchapman]

On 1/4/2018 at 8:33 AM, sargenv said:

I will suggest that a hybrid method is what I use for major matches we hold at Richmond.. 

 

Match prizes are order of finish, by division if the divisions are large enough.. 

 

Money Plaques go to Winner in Divisions. Smaller money plaques go to Category winners.

 

Every competitor has a single raffle ticket and can win prizes from a separate drawing pool. There is no way to get added chances and the raffle is only open to competitors (no way to buy in).. The top prize is usually a gun or valuable prize, every subsequent prize falls in value.. so that the person drawn first gets a chance as the top prize, and then it trickles down as people are drawn and prizes are given out. MUST BE PRESENT TO WIN...

 

My $.02

What we did for last years SW REGIONAL, is similar to that. We did gave plaques to all 1st place division, class and categorie winners. Division winners got money plaques along with other cash for first place, with 2nd and 3rd place got plaques and cash and just plaques for class winners. No raffle tickets, but each entry to the match got one name into the prize bucket, the only way to have more than one chance was to sign up and shoot 2 different guns/divisions. The only exception to this was I let all junior shooters walk twice. All names in the prize bucket was random draw.

[Alaskan454]

Looks like these dates will work for 2018, hope to see you guys at the IRC.