Suggestions for primers for 929, Can't get Federal

[VikingGirl929]

Hi All,

I'm new to the forum and could use some advice regarding primers for a 929 with a lightened trigger.

In Canada we haven't had access to Federal small pistol primers for about a year.  All suppliers have back ordered them with no ETA.

Has anyone tried any other primers that would do the job?

Thanks in advance.

[Dpr17]

All my match ammo is with Federal for my 929 and 625 (both of which have had trigger work). However I’ve done some testing with Winchester primers in my 929 and have had good luck. The key is to make sure your primers are fully seated in the case for detonation. Primers should be slightly below the bottom of the case when fully seated. I have also successfully fired CCI’s but not enough to report reliable data.

[VikingGirl929]

 I can get Winchester primers up here so I'll give those a go. I'm new to reloading as well, is there a trick to seating the primers slightly below the bottom of the case?  Would you have a photo of one by chance?

I've heard a lot of stories why the Federal primers are not available but don't know what the real one is.  Not one supplier in Canada has had them for months.  

Appreciate the help.  I've got lots to learn.

[IHAVEGAS]

16 minutes ago, VikingGirl929 said:

 I can get Winchester primers up here so I'll give those a go. I'm new to reloading as well, is there a trick to seating the primers slightly below the bottom of the case?  Would you have a photo of one by chance?

I've heard a lot of stories why the Federal primers are not available but don't know what the real one is.  Not one supplier in Canada has had them for months.  

Appreciate the help.  I've got lots to learn.

 

http://www.vxb.com/Dial-Vernier-Caliper-Gauge-Measuring-Tool-0-6-p/DIAL-VERNIER-CALIPER-INCH.htm?gclid=Cj0KCQiArYDQBRDoARIsAMR8s_T8IYspApaMoNi4yWl35LGK6P0qiyEmxWCbKmbGqy44Ul0f3-xSAEoaAsEMEALw_wcB

 

For depth measurement.

 

 

For a lot of discussion about getting winchesters to fire / ideal seating depth / how to tweak seating depth on a couple different Dillon presses, etc. I'm at about 0.010" average. 

 

[VikingGirl929]

I've got a vernier for the depth measurement, step one.  I just backed up and read the whole post, some brilliant info here, just what I needed.  Photos are really helpful as well.

Many thanks!

Edited November 6, 2017 by VikingGirl929
added some info

[firewood]

3 hours ago, VikingGirl929 said:

 I can get Winchester primers up here so I'll give those a go. I'm new to reloading as well, is there a trick to seating the primers slightly below the bottom of the case?  Would you have a photo of one by chance?

I've heard a lot of stories why the Federal primers are not available but don't know what the real one is.  Not one supplier in Canada has had them for months.  

Appreciate the help.  I've got lots to learn.

 

It's not a whole lot better here in PA. I haven't seen Federal SPP in a store for almost a year. Not saying there haven't been some here or there I just haven't seen them. When they do finally appear, and no one here know when that might be, plan on buying/stocking up a couple years supply.

[VikingGirl929]

You betcha!  I'd be stock piling like a doomsday prepper!

 

[eggman]

I use only Federal small pistol primers for Federal Magnum small pistol primers .That said ...I have noticed that with even good quality US manufactured 38 special brass after only just a couple firings I have trouble seating primers to the depth I need to have reliable firing . I think it is due to the firing pin "bushings" on my Smith and Wesson revolvers being slightly convex . S&W does this I assume to prevent a fired primer from binding the cylinder during it's rotation. It is more noticeable in my 610 and 646 Smith's loading 40 S&W but also notice this with 38 special brass in my 686 and 66's .

So, I have started swaging all my primer pockets lightly with a Dillon 600 Super Swager and so far it is working well and I haven't had any primer pockets become too loose . I will swage new brass or once fired brass the first loading  and after that anytime I notice difficulties seating primers which is usually two firings after the initial swaging. 

If I could not purchase Federal Primers I would most likely use Winchester Small Pistol Primers and turn my strain screw in some until I got reliable ignition or replace with longer strain screw.

[Steve RA]

If you prime by hand you will always get the primer fully seated,  presuming you have sufficient grip strength.

[revoman]

You should be able to get reliable ignition on Winchester primers with a 7 to 7 1/2 lb da pull.

[Dr. Phil]

I run Winchesters for range work and switch to Federal for matches. Both run 100% in a 686plus, 327 and 929. My triggers are about 7lbs.

The other thing I do is run an Apex firing pin with their reduced power spring. I think that makes a lot of difference also based on some quick tests I did this summer.

Also seemed to be more reliable (with Winchester primers) with a lightened hammer.

[VikingGirl929]

6 hours ago, eggman said:

I use only Federal small pistol primers for Federal Magnum small pistol primers .That said ...I have noticed that with even good quality US manufactured 38 special brass after only just a couple firings I have trouble seating primers to the depth I need to have reliable firing . I think it is due to the firing pin "bushings" on my Smith and Wesson revolvers being slightly convex . S&W does this I assume to prevent a fired primer from binding the cylinder during it's rotation. It is more noticeable in my 610 and 646 Smith's loading 40 S&W but also notice this with 38 special brass in my 686 and 66's .

So, I have started swaging all my primer pockets lightly with a Dillon 600 Super Swager and so far it is working well and I haven't had any primer pockets become too loose . I will swage new brass or once fired brass the first loading  and after that anytime I notice difficulties seating primers which is usually two firings after the initial swaging. 

If I could not purchase Federal Primers I would most likely use Winchester Small Pistol Primers and turn my strain screw in some until I got reliable ignition or replace with longer strain screw.

I did find the Federal Magnum small pistol primers up here.  Picking up a case tomorrow.  Do you lighten your powder at all when using the magnum primers? 

Do you limit the number of times you use fired brass?

Sorry for all the newbie questions, I just want to get it right.

[VikingGirl929]

3 hours ago, Dr. Phil said:

I run Winchesters for range work and switch to Federal for matches. Both run 100% in a 686plus, 327 and 929. My triggers are about 7lbs.

The other thing I do is run an Apex firing pin with their reduced power spring. I think that makes a lot of difference also based on some quick tests I did this summer.

Also seemed to be more reliable (with Winchester primers) with a lightened hammer.

Just wondering if you put the Apex firing pin in your 929?

Have you tried the Federal Magnum small pistol primers, if so, did you make any powder adjustments?

I can only find the magnum up here.  Even Winchester is all back ordered at the moment because of the dirth of Federal, but they will be back in stock, thankfully.

[VikingGirl929]

Thank you to everyone for all the help. At least I will be able to get Winchester primers here eventually and will give the Federal Magnum's a try when I find out if I should make powder adjustments as I believe they have a little more BANG.

[Dr. Phil]

3 minutes ago, VikingGirl929 said:

Just wondering if you put the Apex firing pin in your 929?

Have you tried the Federal Magnum small pistol primers, if so, did you make any powder adjustments?

I can only find the magnum up here.  Even Winchester is all back ordered at the moment because of the dirth of Federal, but they will be back in stock, thankfully.

Yes to Apex in 929. I tried it with the C&S extended pin, the stock pin and the Apex. C&S was around 80% with Winchesters. Stock slightly less. 1oo% with Apex and trigger at about 7 lbs. Can go about 1/2 lb less if I run all Federal.

Yes to SPM primers. (All brands) The magnums give anywhere from 10fps to just over 20fps (depending on the gun and load). At the same price (they run the same here) it's free velocity! I run about a 128PF. I don't play the USPSA or IDPA games. Just SC and plate matches. My loads are way below max so the magnum primers don't hurt anything. They seem to always be easier to find here. Guess people are scared of that Magnum moniker...

[VikingGirl929]

That's good news!  I think they must be scared of it here too as it's the only Federal primers that have been available for about a year.  Price is the same up here as well.  

I'm going to stock up. 128 power factor would be perfect for me, I don't need a major load for ICORE.

Most appreciative for the information and suggestions.

 

[Daniele]

Here in Italy, we use also Russian Murom match primers; also new Fiocchi primers ( not chromed ) are soft like Federal

[VikingGirl929]

Hi Daniele,

I have been using the Fiocchi primers as they are lead free, my levels were high from shooting indoors.  I love them, they have a very clean engagement. I had not tried them in my 929 as I did not know they are soft, so that is a BONUS!

Thank you, that solves a couple of issues for me!

 

 

[eggman]

12 hours ago, VikingGirl929 said:

I did find the Federal Magnum small pistol primers up here.  Picking up a case tomorrow.  Do you lighten your powder at all when using the magnum primers? 

Do you limit the number of times you use fired brass?

Sorry for all the newbie questions, I just want to get it right.

I have not found the Federal Magnum primers to be any less sensitive than the Federal standard primers but I do reduce my powder charge about 1/10th of a grain . I try to keep my brass sorted into lots of 100 pcs and when I start getting several split cases on the same firing I will trash the whole lot of 100 pcs. I need to keep better records because I'm not sure actually how many firings I get on 1x fired brass or new brass.

[Toolguy]

The only difference I have found in the Federal Magnum primers is about 15 FPS more velocity with the same load.

[mwx40x40]

It still blows my mind after everything reloading components, ammo, 22lr, AR rifles etc. have rebounded and has in fact become a buyers market. But , still no Federal Small Pistol Primers????

[Steve RA]

I'd guess they are using them in ammunition they make.

[VikingGirl929]

11 hours ago, Steve RA said:

I'd guess they are using them in ammunition they make.

That's the story I heard, which originated from a former employee.  It was said they make more money on the ammo and not much on primers so they just don't bother.

But wouldn't that be the case for all the ammo providers?

I don't get it, but have found some work arounds thanks to this forum.

Edited November 8, 2017 by VikingGirl929
grammar, my bad

[Steve RA]

From what I understand, there may be a limit on how many primers they are able to produce on existing equipment and the current ammunition production may require most of them.  I remember reading somewhere that they had a large military contract which would use a lot of primers plus civilian ammunition production.   If they had the capacity to produce more I'd think they would certainly want to sell them.

[VikingGirl929]

40 minutes ago, Steve RA said:

From what I understand, there may be a limit on how many primers they are able to produce on existing equipment and the current ammunition production may require most of them.  I remember reading somewhere that they had a large military contract which would use a lot of primers plus civilian ammunition production.   If they had the capacity to produce more I'd think they would certainly want to sell them.

 

The military contract would certainly explain it. Makes sense now.