faya Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 I have found a gun online and it is being sold as private sell. We are both from Florida. He told me that he has FFL and he can send the gun straight to my address without having me a background check. He said this is legal in Florida. Is this accurate? Will I be in trouble if this is done that way? Any help will be much appreciated. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 In my understanding it is not legal for an ffl to transfer a gun to *anyone* without a background check except the same customer than sent it in for service. this sounds shady to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faya Posted October 12, 2017 Author Share Posted October 12, 2017 That is how I felt too. Thank you for your response . Will wait for more input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerTrace Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 6 hours ago, motosapiens said: In my understanding it is not legal for an ffl to transfer a gun to *anyone* without a background check except the same customer than sent it in for service. this sounds shady to me. Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3gunDQ Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 (edited) Either (a) meet face to face and buy it or (b) don’t buy it. I will assume this is an armslist deal.... armslist is a place to find a gun online and buy it face to face. It is not a place to find a gun and get it shipped. If the deal is too good to be true then it probably is. Edited October 12, 2017 by 3gunDQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faya Posted October 12, 2017 Author Share Posted October 12, 2017 Yeah, armslist it is. what does face to face can do that makes it okay to skip background check? Why does he not want to ship it to another FFL? What would be his good reason? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RileyLV Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 The Internet has the answers to everything: https://gun.laws.com/state-gun-laws/florida-gun-laws Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faya Posted October 12, 2017 Author Share Posted October 12, 2017 The Internet has the answers to everything: https://gun.laws.com/state-gun-laws/florida-gun-lawsI have read this last night and basically everyone should undergo a background check. But I did not see info about face to face. Thanks!Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikeski Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 In Florida Private sales between two parties is legal without an FFL. If the gun is owned by his FFL, he will have to send it to another FFL for the transfer. If you are concerned about the deal I'd do one of two things: 1. Have him send the gun to an FFL of your choice and do the transfer as if you bought it from out of state 2. Walk away from the deal. I have sold and purchased guns in Florida from private sales and always used a receipt of transfer. You can find a form online to use. Here is a copy of the form I've used in the past. http://www.defensivestrategies.org/downloads/PrivateTransferForm.pdf It's always a good idea to CYA. 11 hours ago, motosapiens said: In my understanding it is not legal for an ffl to transfer a gun to *anyone* without a background check except the same customer than sent it in for service. this sounds shady to me. This is correct as the ownership of the gun has never changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faya Posted October 13, 2017 Author Share Posted October 13, 2017 Sounds good! Thanks Sir Mikeski! I appreciate the input! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R1_Demon Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 (edited) On 10/11/2017 at 10:40 PM, motosapiens said: In my understanding it is not legal for an ffl to transfer a gun to *anyone* without a background check except the same customer than sent it in for service. this sounds shady to me. Bingo. I'm a current Kentucky FFL holder and this is correct. He is NOT allowed to send it to anyone, inter or intra-state without going through an FFL unless it is back to the exact same owner that sent it into him for service. So, for the purchase of a gun, even in the same state, he cannot do this legally and should get his FFL pulled for this practice. This is shady as hell. Now, if he wanted to meet you face to face that MAY be possible depending on the rules in FL. For Kentucky, I'm allowed to do that but ONLY at my FFL location or an OFFICIAL gun show location. That is it. I still can't drive to someone else's house to sell the gun to them. They have to come to my place of business (where my FFL is issued to) to conduct the business. So, in short, it is probably the same with FL, so you would have to go to his place of business. He CANNOT send you the gun and especially with no background check unless special privileges warrant that. (the no background check) And that probably varies with each state and since I don't know about FL, I won't go into that. Edited October 13, 2017 by R1_Demon added State Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R1_Demon Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 On 10/12/2017 at 10:39 AM, Mikeski said: In Florida Private sales between two parties is legal without an FFL. If the gun is owned by his FFL, he will have to send it to another FFL for the transfer. If you are concerned about the deal I'd do one of two things: 1. Have him send the gun to an FFL of your choice and do the transfer as if you bought it from out of state 2. Walk away from the deal. I have sold and purchased guns in Florida from private sales and always used a receipt of transfer. You can find a form online to use. Here is a copy of the form I've used in the past. http://www.defensivestrategies.org/downloads/PrivateTransferForm.pdf It's always a good idea to CYA. This is correct as the ownership of the gun has never changed. Bingo...Mikeski is right on target. CYA with gun sales...ALWAYS...so good that you checked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EEH Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 1 hour ago, R1_Demon said: Bingo. I'm a current Kentucky FFL holder and this is correct. He is NOT allowed to send it to anyone, inter or intra-state wit What IF, he had 10 guns that belong to him before he got an FFL,, would he be able to sell those guns without paperwork ? Still don't think he could ship them to a buyer..I'm in SC. you can't do that here.. I would find me another gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 The issue is that he said he had an FFL. If it is a private seller ( Non-FFL), a face to face transfer is legal, without any paperwork whatsoever. Because he has an FFL, he must complete and send in the paperwork, do a background check, etc, even though he may be selling as a private owner (this would apply to face to face transactions as well as shipping transactions). This is the section that applies: It is considered illegal for a licensed firearms dealer to deliver a weapon to a buyer without having completed the aforementioned process. Those that are not subject to the background check include other licensed dealers, law enforcement and military personnel, and individuals that have already obtained a permit to carry concealed weapons. There is a three day waiting period to purchase a handgun from any licensed firearms dealer. The waiting period is waived for those individuals that have concealed weapons permits or are trading in another handgun. As a private seller and not an FFL holder, there is provision against selling or buying, other than the "minors" clause, as it is illegal for a minor to purchase or possess a weapon other than under the supervision of a parent or guardian. I purchased my first firearm from Walmart when I was 14, a Marlin 22 rifle, with my parents only needing to be present when I bought it. No background check, no paperwork, just asked if it was OK to sell it to me , they said "Yes", and I paid for it at the sporting goods counter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faya Posted October 14, 2017 Author Share Posted October 14, 2017 I appreciate all the inputs! This will help me and others who will be reading this moving forward. Happy shooting everyone! Great weekend to us! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClangClang Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 I'm surprised no one has said it yet, but the ad is almost certainly a scam. How did the seller ask you to pay? Money order or Western Union, right? If so, definitely, definitely a scam. There is no chance that anything will show up at your doorstep once you send the money. The seller is not an FFL. The seller is almost certainly not even in America. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topgeer Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 I just got my FFL in Louisiana. I ask ATF in my interview if I had to do nics check if I sold my own guns in a private sale. He said only gun I aquire after the FFL. All guns before FFL I can sell privately without Nics check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faya Posted October 15, 2017 Author Share Posted October 15, 2017 Another informative input. Keep it coming. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 8 hours ago, Topgeer said: I just got my FFL in Louisiana. I ask ATF in my interview if I had to do nics check if I sold my own guns in a private sale. He said only gun I aquire after the FFL. All guns before FFL I can sell privately without Nics check. While that may be true, I would hate to try to explain to ATF that the gun I just sold someone was one that I had before I had the FFL. Do you have receipts for all of your gun purchases from before your FFL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topgeer Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 3 hours ago, GrumpyOne said: While that may be true, I would hate to try to explain to ATF that the gun I just sold someone was one that I had before I had the FFL. Do you have receipts for all of your gun purchases from before your FFL? A lot but not all. Just telling you what he said. I don't really sell my personal guns. Probably best to do nics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R1_Demon Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 On 10/15/2017 at 8:22 AM, GrumpyOne said: While that may be true, I would hate to try to explain to ATF that the gun I just sold someone was one that I had before I had the FFL. Do you have receipts for all of your gun purchases from before your FFL? On 10/15/2017 at 12:20 PM, Topgeer said: A lot but not all. Just telling you what he said. I don't really sell my personal guns. Probably best to do nics Exactly as Grump said and you said Topgeer...best just to do the NICS check and be done with it. That's what I do even for private sales. Even though I have receipts for my "personal" firearms, it doesn't matter. I want a paper trail that clears me of any wrong doing when I hand that firearm over to someone else and I want to do that legally. It just covers your arse. Since the NICS check doesn't cost you anything and it is legal for you to do it in the gun transaction (just mark it as a personal transaction on the 4473), I would do it (and I do) anyway. If the person doesn't want to do it, there is a reason. Otherwise, if you aren't charging them for doing it because it is out of their personal collection (I don't charge them if I am selling my personal firearms) then they shouldn't have any issues with it because it isn't costing them a dime. Plus, as Grump posted, if they have a valid CCW/CHL/CCDW license, then a NICS check isn't needed/required anyway (at least not here in KY), so we just fill out the form, I validate the two forms of ID and we are done. I have yet to have anyone with an issue with it. Especially since they know I'm a valid FFL. A lot of people would rather see it handled properly and validated than take a chance wondering if the person was a prior felon or whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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