CGW SP-01 vs CZ Tactical Sport

[timewaster1700]

Hello,
I recently shot an SP-01 converted to SAO with Cajun Gun Works parts and it was amazing. Had the Race Hammer Kit, extended firing pin, 13# hammer spring, aluminum SAO trigger, reduced power trigger spring. The trigger was outstanding although the reset a bit long. But I hear removing the FPB will solve that.

I want to get a gun for USPSA limited and am trying to decide between getting an SP-01 and converting it to SAO Cajun style with the above parts, or whether to get the CZ Tactical Sport. I suppose a third option would be get the TS and put an aluminum CGW trigger in it but leave the rest stock including the hammer.

Have any of you held both? How do they compare?

Advantage of the SP-01 is I will save money and still have an outstanding gun. Also mags are cheaper for the SP-01 than the TS.
Advantage of the Tactical Sport I see being the longer barrel (larger sight radius and more heft for follow up shots) and larger grip. Although the SP-01 grip is very comfortable, I do have long fingers and I don't think it could hurt to have a bit larger grip.

 

I know the TS has larger mags, but I'd just use Taran Tactical mag extenders for the SP01 if I went that route. I'm more wanting comparison of shooting each if anyone has handled both.

Thanks for the help.

[selecw]

Do you want to shoot .40 or 9? 

[timewaster1700]

My apologies I should have specified I want to stick to 9mm.

[muncie21]

I shot a Cajunized SP01 in production before getting a TSO and shooting in limited.  If you already have a SP01 converting to SAO would be much cheaper than getting a new gun.  However if you are purchasing a new gun for limited, get the TS.  It is a shooter out of the box, doesn't need anything to jump into limited..well maybe a set of grips.

 

Consider trying a TS or TSO in .40.  It is day/night difference from a plastic .40.

[phoenixsomd]

I shot a Cajunized SP01 in production before getting a TSO and shooting in limited.  If you already have a SP01 converting to SAO would be much cheaper than getting a new gun.  However if you are purchasing a new gun for limited, get the TS.  It is a shooter out of the box, doesn't need anything to jump into limited..well maybe a set of grips.
 
Consider trying a TS or TSO in .40.  It is day/night difference from a plastic .40.

I have both as well. I've also shot CO with a mount on the SP-01 using Springer Precision mag extensions (22+1 capacity).

With the CGW Pro package you could have a production legal pistol that could also be used in Limited "cocked and locked". The single action trigger pull would be slightly over 2#s. My TS is slightly over 1#.

It would be running minor loads however which puts you at a competitive disadvantage unless you are a very high percentage "A" zone shooter.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

[kneelingatlas]

TS is the CZ for Limited, no question.  Once you buy an SP01, buy all the parts and pay for the trigger job it's not much cheaper and definitely an inferior gun for your purposes.

 

And if you're going to shoot a TS on Limited I highly recommend .40 for major scoring.

 

What's holding you in 9mm?

Edited September 29, 2017 by kneelingatlas

[858]

I have more money in my worked over Shadow than you'd have in a TS if you started from zero. You do not need to modify the TS trigger. My short list for mods would be a FO front sight, S2 safety, and maybe a CGW barrel bushing.

[timewaster1700]

Well I went to the gun shop and held a TS side by side with an SP-01 and actually the decision only got more difficult.

 

I think I'm going to throw price out the window because I'd rather just get a good gun the first time.

 

Here's what I noticed:

 

-SP-01 grip was more comfortable by a lot. I thought I would like the TS grip but between it being big and being slick it just didn't feel right.

-SP-01 slide release was easier to reach and larger, but in theory in competition you should never use it since you should reload before slide lock

-TS trigger was really good but honestly still had some creep which makes me think I would probably still do a cajun hammer kit on it if I went the TS route.

-I really like the longer barrel and dust cover of the TS and the extra heft I'm sure would be awesome while shooting

-Both SP-01 and TS need a fiber optic front but the SP-01 has better sights out of the box in my opinion

-I appreciated the "charging handle" rear sight on the TS. Awesome idea. I do wish the rear notch was a little taller (the bottom of the notch sat lower)

-Safety on the TS was mushy, but the SP-01 wasn't exactly super good either. Both were lacking compared to a 1911 safety with that wonderful positive click.

 

I'm kind of at a loss of what to do now. I think with cajun parts the TS would be an almost perfect gun, except that grip. I may have to look into that. All said and done though I would probably end up dumping $400 more into the TS over the SP-01 but I think I'll try not to take cost into account.

[aandabooks]

The TS needs a set of grips.  I'm not super fond of the stock SP-01 grips either.  I think I prefer the CZC aluminum but the Scales 2.0 grips are nice.  The CZC are much thinner.

 

 

 

[zzt]

Lok thin Boogies are the way to go for either gun.  Even in 95 degrees with really sweaty palms, the gun does not move in your hand.

 

If you are specifically buying a gun for USPSA Limited, the TS in 40 is your gun.

 

If you must stay 9mm, then buy whatever you want.  You'll be handicapped either way in Limited, but a least you'll have at 18-20 rounds in the mag.  

[858]

2 hours ago, timewaster1700 said:

Well I went to the gun shop and held a TS side by side with an SP-01 and actually the decision only got more difficult.

 

I think I'm going to throw price out the window because I'd rather just get a good gun the first time.

 

Here's what I noticed:

 

-SP-01 grip was more comfortable by a lot. I thought I would like the TS grip but between it being big and being slick it just didn't feel right.

-SP-01 slide release was easier to reach and larger, but in theory in competition you should never use it since you should reload before slide lock

-TS trigger was really good but honestly still had some creep which makes me think I would probably still do a cajun hammer kit on it if I went the TS route.

-I really like the longer barrel and dust cover of the TS and the extra heft I'm sure would be awesome while shooting

-Both SP-01 and TS need a fiber optic front but the SP-01 has better sights out of the box in my opinion

-I appreciated the "charging handle" rear sight on the TS. Awesome idea. I do wish the rear notch was a little taller (the bottom of the notch sat lower)

-Safety on the TS was mushy, but the SP-01 wasn't exactly super good either. Both were lacking compared to a 1911 safety with that wonderful positive click.

 

I'm kind of at a loss of what to do now. I think with cajun parts the TS would be an almost perfect gun, except that grip. I may have to look into that. All said and done though I would probably end up dumping $400 more into the TS over the SP-01 but I think I'll try not to take cost into account.

 

If money isn't a concern look for a TS Orange. It has sharp checkering, higher cut grip (Trigger guard and beavertail), fiber optic sights, etc. I wouldn't even consider starting with a regular SP01.

 

 

[SubOrbital]

3 hours ago, 858 said:

 

If money isn't a concern look for a TS Orange. It has sharp checkering, higher cut grip (Trigger guard and beavertail), fiber optic sights, etc. I wouldn't even consider starting with a regular SP01.

 

 

^Yep. I had a Cajunized SP-01 and it was a fantastic shooter. A factory TS was as good, if not better, without modifications; though to be fair the SP-01 had the Defensive Carry package and not the Pro package.

 

These days, were I to get a CZ it'd have to be the TS Orange. An SP-01 in any flavor even Shadow 2 while close just isn't quite there. Especially if the standard TS grip isn't for you, the Orange likely will be.

[zzt]

You could also do a grip reduction on a TS and get a better grip than on an Orange.

I put grip tape on the front and back and thin Lok Boggies.   I have small hands, but I can release a mag without shifting my grip.  I also had it Cerakoted in Graphite Black.

[Fasthenk65]

34 minutes ago, zzt said:

You could also do a grip reduction on a TS and get a better grip than on an Orange.

I put grip tape on the front and back and thin Lok Boggies.   I have small hands, but I can release a mag without shifting my grip.  I also had it Cerakoted in Graphite Black.

you just "shave" the grip to make it smaller?

 

[zzt]

I used a vertical 1" belt sander to sand all the cast checkering off.  I used the same belt, but held above the platen to deepen the beaver tail and under trigger contours.  I only went deep enough to completely remove the checkering, as that was right for my hand.  You could take more off if desired.  I hand sanded down to 1000 grit (rear strap picture), then did the same for the front (shows 400 grit finish).  Finished, it feels much better to me than the grip on a TSO.

[timewaster1700]

While money isn't a "concern" per say I do think the TS Orange is starting to get outside the limits I feel comfortable with at this point. 

[zzt]

I'll be honest.  I don't see the TSO as anything other than an attempt to extort more money for basically useless 'features'.  My TS slide to frame fit is better than the TSO.  The TSO is designed to be tight for the first 1" when you put the slide on.  Everyone says wow and shows pictures of how the slide will not fall on in that position.  Yet when you put the slide completely on, it is looser.  It has to be, or the pistol would not function.

 

Now you do get a relatively useless thumb rest.  I put the same one on my TS, decided it was a liability and removed it after several matches.  I found that if I was not careful my thumb would brush the slide, slowing it down and causing a stovepipe. 

 

You also get useless +1 orange base pads.  That gets you 17 reloadable for Limited.  So you have to replace the pads with larger ones so you can get 19-20 reloadable, depending on the springs and followers used.

 

Regarding the supposedly high polish of the internals, BS.  It looks like it was milled by the same dull end mills as the TS.

 

If I were doing it all again, I would do exactly at I did previously, except I would not waste the money to send it down to CGW to have everything smoothed and tightened and adding the comp hammer and sear, plus springs and the like.  After $350 of such stuff, I got it back and the improvements were imaginary.  I will say the safety clicking in better that it did before and the little bit of creep that had developed was lessened.

 

$1100 for a TS 40, $150 for CZC base pads, $100 for a fourth mag with CZC base pad, $50 for a Dawson FO front sight and you are 100% ready for Limited for a total of $1400.  If you go for a 9mm, you don't need the extended base pads, so it is even cheaper.  I just don't see where the value is on the TSO.

Edited October 1, 2017 by zzt

[yigal]

1 hour ago, zzt said:

I'll be honest.  I don't see the TSO as anything other than an attempt to extort more money for basically useless 'features'.  My TS slide to frame fit is better than the TSO.  The TSO is designed to be tight for the first 1" when you put the slide on.  Everyone says wow and shows pictures of how the slide will not fall on in that position.  Yet when you put the slide completely on, it is looser.  It has to be, or the pistol would not function.

 

Now you do get a relatively useless thumb rest.  I put the same one on my TS, decided it was a liability and removed it after several matches.  I found that if I was not careful my thumb would brush the slide, slowing it down and causing a stovepipe. 

 

You also get useless +1 orange base pads.  That gets you 17 reloadable for Limited.  So you have to replace the pads with larger ones so you can get 19-20 reloadable, depending on the springs and followers used.

 

Regarding the supposedly high polish of the internals, BS.  It looks like it was milled by the same dull end mills as the TS.

 

If I were doing it all again, I would do exactly at I did previously, except I would not waste the money to send it down to CGW to have everything smoothed and tightened and adding the comp hammer and sear, plus springs and the like.  After $350 of such stuff, I got it back and the improvements were imaginary.  I will say the safety clicking in better that it did before and the little bit of creep that had developed was lessened.

 

$1100 for a TS 40, $150 for CZC base pads, $100 for a fourth mag with CZC base pad, $50 for a Dawson FO front sight and you are 100% ready for Limited for a total of $1400.  If you go for a 9mm, you don't need the extended base pads, so it is even cheaper.  I just don't see where the value is on the TSO.

+1 

few tso in ours club 9mm. loose that tight fit after 10 000 rounds  .slide rails dim. was 22.35mm from the box. now  its  22.26mm  after 1 year .

and they now have vertical play 0.45mm. (one of them replaced by distributor to new.)

original   thumb rest perfectly  design  for square   fingers   everybody  remove  it and use others or none.

liked  frame reduction that u done for ts.very accurate work.

u can add checkering at the back side and stippling on front.but if u use tape its o.k.

but i like tso grip better than ts  with thin al. grips with tape.

 

Edited October 1, 2017 by yigal

[timewaster1700]

Thanks for chiming in zzt. Do you think its a waste then to put the CGW Hammer kit in for the tactical sport. The TS I held in the store did have a fair amount of trigger creep. I remember my uncle's CGW SP01 he did himself feeling more positive. But his trigger was also probably 1 lb heavier than a TS so that may have factored in. I think no matter what I would put the aluminum trigger on it just for feel and a Dawson .215" x .090" FO front sight. I really like shooting 9mm and would prefer to stick that way. I know its a disadvantage but I'd rather just slow down a touch and get all A-zone hits then miss because I'm moving too fast.

 

I was thinking I'd be $1515 into a TS if I went that route (not counting an extra mag I'd probably get too which I've seen for as low as $43):

10X Barrel Bushing For Tactical Sport 7520TSX	60
98060 Tactical Sport Stainless Steel Guide Rod	25
13RS 13# Green Recoil Spring	$13.00
SP Starter Punch	7
10080 Tactical Sport Hammer Kit	123
6SAO Single Action Aluminum Trigger	$42.00
75006 Tactical Sport Trigger Pin	20
7.5 mm tall fiber optic front sight (Dawson .215" x .090")	39
CZ medium Aluminum Grips	85

 

The Stainless Steel Guide Rod and Recoil Spring I am unsure about. Might not need it. The bushing is honestly probably completely unnecessary for USPSA since you really don't need that high of accuracy for this sport, but I figure heck if I'm going to spend all that money might as well optimize it and just make one heck of an accurate gun while I'm at it that I can enjoy outside USPSA too.

 

I'm nervous about the TS with aluminum grips. I'm afraid the traction might not be positive enough or the grip might go from too large to too small. That was the biggest advantage to me of the SP01 is the grip is perfect out of the box and the rubber grips would be perfect for competition. Plenty of traction. I know some people do skateboard tape on aluminum grips. I admit the idea of tacking tape on a $1500 gun doesn't excite me but I guess function > style. I was leaning towards getting the CZ checkered aluminum grips hoping that the checkering built into the aluminum was plenty of traction. 

 

Anyone tried put full-size rubber grips on and reducing both the height to fit the mag well and sanding down the back side to reduce the thickness of them? Seems like if that would work and reduce the overall size of the grip that would be perfect.

[858]

There are pictures floating around of cut down full size rubber grips. I cut down a set of LOK grips to fit a CZUB magwell. Any CZ75 grip can be fit with a saw and file.

[kneelingatlas]

 

2 hours ago, 858 said:

There are pictures floating around of cut down full size rubber grips. I cut down a set of LOK grips to fit a CZUB magwell. Any CZ75 grip can be fit with a saw and file.

[bigdave24]

I would shoot the TS first before ordering a 7.5 mm FO sight.  A lot depends on your load, and the sight picture you prefer.  If you use the FO 'dot' as your impact point, you may  be shooting high with a 7.5 mm sight.  

[858]

5 hours ago, zzt said:

I'll be honest.  I don't see the TSO as anything other than an attempt to extort more money for basically useless 'features'. 

 

I don't understand your point. You describe the TSO as a waste of money due to useless features and then describe your grip reduction. The major benefit of the TSO is the grip reduction and checkering (and added weight). You then get upgraded sights, magwell, grips, thumb rest, extra pins and springs, etc. The TSO is not a custom gun and neither is the TS so the slide and barrel fit are somewhat variable. Either could have better or worse accuracy on any given Sunday. The cost difference is about $500 on the open market. The cost to upgrade a TS comparably is more than $500 assuming someone can't, or doesn't want to, do the grip reduction and checkering themselves. The TSO is not perfect but at $1500 to $1650 street price is a good value, if you want perfect maybe a $4000 2011 is a better fit.

Edited October 1, 2017 by 858

[zzt]

time, I'd forgo almost all of what you plan until you have shot the gun for quite some time.  The 10x bushing is a waste of time until, and if, your bushng wears from a whole lot of shooting.  I originally went to the full length CZC SS guide rod and a 13lb CZC spring, because it allowed me to shoot 172PF and 140PF loads without changing the spring.  I went to a FO front sight because my old eyes had a problem with the standard front sight.  I do not feel adding the competition hammer and sear are worth the price.  I'll also say that I would send your gun to CZ Custom for any work you want done, and definitely not to Cajun Gun Works.  If you want to know why, PM me.

 

If you are going 9mm, you will spend less, because the mag capacity is already there.  23 in a tube buys you nothing over 20 for Limited.

 

858, the fact that I did eventually have all those internal mods done is what tells me they were a waste of money.  The guts of a TSO are no better than on a TS.  AND BTW, I have two 2011 customs.

Edited October 1, 2017 by zzt

[timewaster1700]

I think for grips I may trim the height on some Low G10 Thin Bogies. They look like they would probably be perfect.