Lets talk about training

[motosapiens]

1 minute ago, motosapiens said:

double tap. doh.

Edited September 19, 2017 by motosapiens

[CHA-LEE]

1 hour ago, B_RAD said:

@CHA-LEE, let me ask you a question.  How accurate can one expect to be when calling their shots?  I've went to the range a couple of times in the last month or two with it being a goal. I'll set up at 15/25yds, draw and fire 2-4 rounds at one target and try to call my shots without looking at the target.  I can meet all the par times listed in skills and drills for doubles, etc. and my hits are good. All A's and close C's.  I usually don't call my shots well though.  I'll be thinking upper left of A zone and I'll be lower left. Maybe I'm calling at the end of the recoil arc rather than the exact moment when the sight starts to lift? 

 

Assuming a person is not blinking and calls the shot at the proper time, is a 3" circle from the called spot good? 

 

How refined your shot calling skills are is really based on your experience in doing it. When I first started the shot calling process it was very rudimentary, such as only knowing if it was a hit on the target anywhere or a total miss. As I gained more experience in shot calling I was able to get a more refined understanding of what each sight picture equals in terms of on target hits. Today my shot calling refinement is about the size of a head on a normal Metric target at any given distance while shooting aggressively. With this level of refinement I can easily call B, C, D, and Misses while hosing at targets in a rage blast speed. Are there an occasional C zone hits that I called A's which are just outside of the A zone? Sure. But more often than not when I am getting C zone hits they are called C's.

 

From my experience, this shot calling refinement process never stops. I know for a fact that I can call my shots in a more refined manner this year than I did last year or the year before that.

[B_RAD]

15 minutes ago, CHA-LEE said:

 

How refined your shot calling skills are is really based on your experience in doing it. When I first started the shot calling process it was very rudimentary, such as only knowing if it was a hit on the target anywhere or a total miss. As I gained more experience in shot calling I was able to get a more refined understanding of what each sight picture equals in terms of on target hits. Today my shot calling refinement is about the size of a head on a normal Metric target at any given distance while shooting aggressively. With this level of refinement I can easily call B, C, D, and Misses while hosing at targets in a rage blast speed. Are there an occasional C zone hits that I called A's which are just outside of the A zone? Sure. But more often than not when I am getting C zone hits they are called C's.

 

From my experience, this shot calling refinement process never stops. I know for a fact that I can call my shots in a more refined manner this year than I did last year or the year before that.

Thanks!  That makes me cut myself a break. I was getting a little discouraged thinking it was voodoo!

[arkadi]

Any additional insights on shot calling on moving targets?

[CHA-LEE]

19 minutes ago, arkadi said:

Any additional insights on shot calling on moving targets?

 

Its the same process of observing what the sight picture looks like as the gun goes boom. The only difference is that your sights/gun should be tracking along with the moving target.

[drewbeck]

not disagreeing with anything Chalee is saying but I think when trying to figure out the shot calling thing, it's easier (at least for me) to think of the whole process as more of a movie than a bunch of "sight pictures".  If you think of your eyes as a video camera that are recording everything they see behind the gun as it moves through a COF, the shot calling process and "sight pictures" are really just single frame snapshots or freeze frames that need to be analyzed by your brain to confirm that the sights were good when the gun went off.  

 

The whole shot calling process is really simple (though not necessarily easy), you basically just need to teach your brain to grab a still image from the recording as the gun goes off and then have it analyze subconscously whether the shot was good based on how the sights were aligned at that moment.  If they were good you move on, if they were bad you makeup the shot.

 

It's really not much different than instant replay on a football game to confirm the foot was down when the ball was caught.  The only difference is you have to make your mind do this analysis continually as every shot is fired.  If you ever umpired or refereed a sport or game, that's basically all you're doing, at every shot you call it good (move on) or bad (fire makeup) based on what you see and feel.  As you get better you're able to see more and more visually and refine this ability which is no different than an umpire learning to really know whether someone was out vs knowing someone was out by 6", a step, two steps, whatever.

 

As far as shot calling movers goes, the process is identical, but I think the reason it is generally more difficult is that the moving target is much more distracting mentally and this pulls your focus and visual attention further away from the sights which makes it more difficult to get a clear snapshot of the sights when the gun went off.  Without a clear snapshot, it is difficult if not impossible to call the shot.  The key is to not let yourself pay more attention to the target than you're paying to the sights.

 

 

[tha1000]

What is your current class in the division your training for?

Limited A

 

 How much do you really dry fire?  

2x 40-45 minutes a day, 6 days a week.  Some times cut short by family obligations.

 

How long have you been dry firing at that level?

3 months.  Previously I was 1 x 45 a day.  Have been dry firing seriously for about a year and a half.  I was truly awful when I started.

 

 What type of dry fire program are you doing?

Right now, I do Anderson's first 12 in the AM, with an emphasis on speed.  In the evening session, it is more field course/movement related with an emphasis on seeing the sights/match mode.

 

 How much live fire training are you doing?  

Nowhere near enough..

 

What classes have you taken?

Stoeger's fundamentals, Frank Proctor uspsa skills class.  have at least one Stoeger class on the books later this year, working to squeeze another one in.

 

Do you feel your current training is sufficient for your current goals?  

No.  I need more live fire.  Regular live fire practice is a definite goal for 2018.

 

Do you do any mental specific training?  

No.

 

Do you know the training routine of any top level shooters?  

Not outside of what has been disclosed in books or podcasts.

 

There is some good stuff in this thread.

Edited September 20, 2017 by tha1000

[SCTaylor]

What is your current class in the division your training for?

Production - B

 

 How much do you really dry fire?  

1x 20-35 minutes a day, 5 days a week.  

 

How long have you been dry firing at that level?

2 months.  Was sketchy on 3x per week since last October.

 

 What type of dry fire program are you doing?

Basis of design is Stoeger's Dryfire Reloaded. I'll use his base drills but setup mini-stages & scenarious.

 

 How much live fire training are you doing?  

June, July, & August once per week, going forward two sessions per week. Averaging 250 rounds per session.

 

What classes have you taken?

Stoeger's fundamentals - Taking Skills & Drills in December

 

Do you feel your current training is sufficient for your current goals?  

Yes. Goal is to achieve GM and be competitive at local & regional major matches. I also plan to shoot in the 2020 World Shoot

 

Do you do any mental specific training?  

Every time I practice. Mental walk-through before each drill.

 

Do you know the training routine of any top level shooters?  

I don't know. But have heard Stoeger follows right out of Skills & Drills.

[CrashDodson]

@SCTaylor  How do you setup your mini stages for dry fire?  How much room do you have?

[SCTaylor]

I'm working with a half full of junk, two car garage. Stuff is spread out all over heck but getting more organized.

 

I typically keep anywhere from 6 to 15 different targets setup; 1/6, 1/3, 1/2 scale paper, 6 - 2" plates, and a few mini & full size poppers.  These are all stuck on the garage door with blue painters tape to allow for easy rearrangement.

 

The mini stages are tooled around the specific skill to be addressed and modeled loosely on past matches I've shot.  If there is movement, it's between 3 & 12 feet for positions.

 

@CrashDodson It seems our training is going down different paths. I'm working on "all around" skills and less on "classifier" style stuff. Yes making GM is the goal but I want to win matches more! So that is how my training is focused.

Edited September 20, 2017 by SCTaylor

[hwansikcjswo]

Leading up to the world shoot, I have been spending about 8 hours of shooting related stuff. 

 

1.5 to 2 hrs of physical training with my trainer. about an hr of dry fire, 3 hours or more of live fire, and lots of analysis.

 

After the worlds, I didn't train much due to traveling and school starting.

 

In the off season, I will most likely spend less than 5 hours a day. and have a solid 2 to 3 weeks no training.

[CrashDodson]

@hwansikcjswo when you mention analysis, are you referring to video analysis?  Is this your match video, other shooters match video or some of both?

[hwansikcjswo]

[mention=56076]hwansikcjswo[/mention] when you mention analysis, are you referring to video analysis?  Is this your match video, other shooters match video or some of both?

Both are part of it. It's more than just video analysis. I should have said study rather than analysis.


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