How Not To Make Others Feel Bad...

[iweiny]

This is going to take a lot of explaining. I have read a lot here about wining, losing, and pressure. Flyin40's post on winning and if it is important to you made me think of the other side to the whole winning thing; losing. It seems that I am not shooting as well as I would like, pretty much all the time. I have good stages but for the most part I seem to always have at least one stage where I really mess up, in my mind at least. To be clear in my mind major stage screw ups are: missing, no-shoots, basically penalties of any kind, and gun malfunctions (especially because of something I did or did not do to the gun). Minor mess ups are down points and speed.

Ok so get to the point...

My wife gets mad at me because I get upset with myself for messing up, but I have had some luck in placing high in the local matches. I by no means feel I am a great shooter and I know that this success is simply because better shooters were in other classes or not at the match at all.

But how do I explain to her and others that my dissapointment is not with winning or losing but with my perception of my performance? I am basically trying to push the speed while retaining my accuracy, all the things you read on here about seeing faster yada yada. When I don't do those things I am dissapointed. But in some ways I feel bad about being dissapointed when others are "losing".

eric nielsen posted the article about golf and I feel like that most of the time. (Big thanks BTW) I am trying to improve my game. I do find myself worried about other people some time and find that to be counter productive. So I focus on what I do or do not do.

Does this make sence at all without being too arogant?

Ira

[Flexmoney]

read: The Inner Game of Tennis

[MikeFoley]

I have made a fool of myself more than once for talking about my shooting being so bad I didn't deserve to be on the range, only to find that I won or came in close to the top. I feel like an a?? when it turns out that way. I have reduced it to this:

Everyone has issues on the range with their own shooting, decisions, equipment, timing, etc. It is only our own substandard performance by our own measure that we recall when we are not satisfied. It is easier to forget or not even see the mistakes of others. I still get really critical of myself when I don't shoot well, but I am trying to keep it to myself more now that I realize others may be affected by my actions (and bad sportsmanship).

I just finished looking at results from a match where I got upset on stage 4 and then hit a no-shoot on stage 5 and shot 5 extra penalty shots intentionally and zeroed an 80 point stage, only to miss second place by 33 points. If I had stayed focused on the stage, instead of shooting those 5 extra shots in anger (bad sportsmanship indeed), I would have had more than 70 match points and been second at 98% of the winner instead of fourth at 83%. That is why I must never do that again, ever.

[shred]

As you get better, you just see more mistakes you made. Accepting that you will always see something wrong is a big part of improving. Ask any stage winner at a major match about the stage and they'll most likely tell you what they messed up.

I had a run several years ago where I won A-class in almost every big match I entered.. but I shot what I thought was poorly in many of them and never had a great feeling about the win. Eventually I learned that feeling bad when you win "poorly" is just something that happens because as we get better we see more.

[Nik Habicht]

Does this make sence at all without being too arogant?

Ira

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes. I've been a news photographer for thirteen years now ---- and I like very few photos I've taken in that time. My work is competent, (think A class, overall)and in Sports perhaps better than average (Think M card here) ---- but I think it's simply my personality to constantly strive for improvement on the path to perfection. In other words, I'll never be completely happy --- because most days I'll think that tomorrow I can do it better.

The flip side to that is, that when looking at the photos I still like --- I KNOW that when I shot them, I couldn't have done it any better on that day.

If you wish, take a look at My Pictures on Sportsshooter. (note the two Ss in the middle --- this is a site devoted to sports photographers.) I need to up date the page --- but pictures 1-3 and 7 will probably stay ---- they fall into the category of work I could not have done better at the time, and perhaps not even now. Four - Six are pretty average....

[John Heiter]

I think we all go through this to some extent no matter if we are winning or losing at the time. If you've been shooting for any length of time, you start to develop an idea of your own realistic potential. That imaginary potential is what I'm really shooting against at every match.

Every once in awhile I'll shoot a stage that I'm actually proud of but most of the time I have some gripes. I'm constantly doing things like getting my hits on the difficult movers but throwing a mike on an in your face static target right before the mover. If I had thrown a mike on the mover I could chalk it up to a difficult shot and understand but to see one on a target that I know was the result of a simple lack of concentration or failure to perform a skill that I know I possess...well, that just drives me nuts.

I've even started doing it to my friends. I have a good friend that I've been shooting matches and practicing with for years now who is a Limited GM. It's funny for me to watch him shoot a stage in 10 sec's down only a couple points that no one else at the match can turn in under 16. Everyone else in the squad will be talking about how fast his run was and I'm sitting there saying "sorry about that dude, what happened to you on that last array" because I know he should/could have run the stage in 8.5.

I like beating other shooters but the thing that matters the most to me is competing against that imaginary potential run of mine. It's why I have respect for shooters who show up to the match and shoot revolver even though they are the only person in that division.

John

[MattBurkett]

Most of the time a closed mouth and open ears is the best approach to not make other shooters feel bad. Yeah, I am still working on that one. I have learned as the years go by to just say thanks when someone congratulates you after a stage that was frustrating. There are very few people you will be able to discuss the problems with. The hard thing to remember is that they may never be able to shoot that well and to them it was an impressive performance. Their view (not yours) is what is important to them. Remember also that most people have never had a high level of performance at a spectator type sport in their life so they may not understand what you are complaining about.

Winning can be fairly easy for some people, not being a jackass before, during or after is the hard part.

I hope I can heed my own advice even better in the future.

[tightloop]

Just don;t be like Tiger Woods and tell all who will listen: I did not have my A game but what I had was good enough to win....I hate that...

[kevin c]

I think it was Rod Laver, the old time Australian tennis champion, who, when he was congratulated on winning various tournaments, would reply, "Yes, I played well". I think his reply when asked about his opponents beating him was just to substitute "he" for "I".

He wasn't about false modesty, nor excuses, nor about public introspection and analysis of his game/technique. Of course, that was thirty plus years ago...

FWIW,

Kevin C

[boo radley]

Strange -- I think there's a pretty weird, and unnecessary, psychological battle going on, here....

Seems to me, one of the really nice things about this sport is the objective nature of the scoring.

Help me understand: if you *win* the match, or the division, or whatever, and are still disappointed, no one else probably wants to hear it, and you should find tougher competition, so that winning -- despite any flaws in your performance -- will be a significant accomplishment.

If you don't win or achieve whatever goal you set, any comments about a "great performance" are most likely soothing words designed to console, and you should accept them with tact, and in the spirit given. Obviously the performance wasn't that great, or the results would reflect it!

[vluc]

But how do I explain to her and others that my dissapointment is not with winning or losing but with my perception of my performance?  I am basically trying to push the speed while retaining my accuracy, all the things you read on here about seeing faster yada yada.  When I don't do those things I am dissapointed.  But in some ways I feel bad about being dissapointed when others are "losing".

Does this make sence at all without being too arogant?

Ira

Why explain anything? The results are what they are. Your decision to be disappointed is yours and yours alone. It need not be explained to anyone, unless you make a fuss of it so that people see it. (just my opinion).

Folks who have played the game enough know what you mean and what you are feeling. Those that need explanations will never get it....

[iweiny]

Why explain anything?  The results are what they are.  Your decision to be disappointed is yours and yours alone.  It need not be explained to anyone, unless you make a fuss of it so that people see it.  (just my opinion).

Folks who have played the game enough know what you mean and what you are feeling.  Those that need explanations will never get it....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks to all for your replies. I guess I should just keep my mouth shut. But

at last weekends match this happened and I had a good discussion with the guy

who actually won L10 about how *HE* was getting lots of penalties lately and he

was not happy about it. I did not feel bad, even though he beat me by almost

20%! I guess I just wanted people to realize that final results should be

secondary and sort of like frosting on the cake.

As far as explanations are concerned, I really just want my wife to get it. I

reallize with others, I should just shut up. But I guess with my wife and

other "close" friends I really want them to "get it".

Oh well, I knew when I posted this I would probably sound like an a-hole,

especially since I am a new shooter. I hope that was not the case, and if so

you will forgive me.

Thanks again,

Ira

[tightloop]

Rod Laver (The Rocket).....his left forearm was an inch bigger than his right side....

[XRe]

Strange -- I think there's a pretty weird, and unnecessary, psychological battle going on, here.... 

You're correct, sir

Seems to me, one of the really nice things about this sport is the objective nature of the scoring.

Tell me about it - I don't do well with subjective "judged" scoring. Unless it's broken, the timer just doesn't lie, it doesn't get involved in politics, it's not bribeable, and it doesn't give high scores for sympathy, either.

Help me understand: if you *win* the match, or the division, or whatever, and are still disappointed, no one else probably wants to hear it, and you should find tougher competition, so that winning -- despite any flaws in your performance -- will be a significant accomplishment.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Boo, you're pretty even keeled about it I have a pretty active set of fears and obstacles in my mind (in the psychology sense of it, anyway) - my knee jerk first response when someone says "great job" is to hypercritcally analyze all the things I did wrong - a mix of response to fear of failure and fear of success. Now that I know that (and realize what Matt was talking about above), I try to just thank them and be gracious. False modesty is actually just another fear creeping out, and has negative detriment - if I did real good, I can revel in it as long as I don't make an ass out of myself.

I guess that's all to say that, it doesn't come so easily or so obviously for some folks, but it's a useful skill for a lot of reasons....

[vluc]

As far as explanations are concerned, I really just want my wife to get it.  I

reallize with others, I should just shut up.  But I guess with my wife and

other "close" friends I really want them to "get it".

Oh well, I knew when I posted this I would probably sound like an a-hole,

especially since I am a new shooter.  I hope that was not the case, and if so

you will forgive me.

Thanks again,

Ira

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Don't think of yourself as an a-hat...this is a great place to express yourself, and few people here take things that personally.

My wife doesn't get what I do, but loves me enough to let me talk on, even though she and I know her mind is a thousand miles away!

She knows I do this for me, it's my game and I have fun at it. If I do well, I enjoy it, if I don't, guess what...I still enjoy it.

Read Brian's book, read a lot of the posts here, ask a lot of questions and you will be on the correct path young padawan....

[eric nielsen]

Just remember that when people compliment a stage performance or match win, they're kinda saying that they admire the skills that let you do that. Maybe they aspire to have those abilities in their own shooting.

If it took you 10000 hours of practice to be able to do a minor screw-up and yet factor out the highest - that's what you're being complimented on.

If you feel the need, you might say something like 'Was heading for trouble there but my experience helped me recover in good shape.' That's the sort of thing a new shooter can take encouragement from.

[boo radley]

Heh.*

Man, after finishing a match, is complemented by his wife on his performance:

Him -- [says]: Honey, you don't understand. Yeah, I came in just below 8th place, but I made two -- no THREE -- mistakes in the third stage, right? You saw how I stuck myself at slide-lock in the third array, which I engaged in the wrong direction? Let me get some paper, and I'll draw it out....

Him -- [thinks]: I've been doing this for 3 years now, and she still doesn't understand a damn thing about field course strategy....

Her -- [says]: Dear, you still seemed very fast! How good you're becoming.

Her -- [thinks]: That haircut looked really good on Cindy. I need to ask her who did it...

* this is NOT gender specific -- reverse the roles as needed. And in good fun, only.

[bgary]

Someone once said to me (in a different sport) that winning is like being on an escalator. Everybody starts on the same level, and any time someone makes a mistake, they go backwards a step. The one who makes the fewest mistakes, gets to step off first at the top.

I think that's true. And, so, even when you feel you have made mistakes, there is nothing wrong with noting that you made fewer mistakes than anyone else, and stepped off first at the top.

Not saying that should be the goal... but the truth is that our game is all about "doing it on demand", and if you are able to do that better than anyone else on that day, that is an accomplishment in its own right. Use the mistakes to motivate performance *gains*, not to beat yourself up.

Bruce

"A professional is one who relentlessly pursues excellence; it has nothing to do with money."

[bpgorbe]

Ira --

I certainly think and feel the same way. I screwed up stages 2 and 3 and kicked myself for the nex hour. I just verbalize it less that you do. Besides, I have never heard you say anything negative about anyone else, so go ahead and vent.

-- Brian