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JusticeOfToren

Bull barrels

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Current rule book says only 4.25 inch or shorter bull barrels are allowed.  The new Sig P320 X5 has a 5 inch bull barrel as advertised officially in catalogs and website.   Some people say the X5 bull barrel is not "bull enough" to be considered bull barrel under IDPA rules.  So the P320 X5 will be IDPA legal.  Is that the case?  What are the criteria to determine a "bull barrel" is not "bull enough" - is it by weight?

 

I think most people would love to see IDPA get rid of the bull barrel restrictions. 

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My guess would be if it had a bushing, either a separate piece or has a hole in the slide for the same purpose, that would equal a standard barrel and be legal. 

 

I haven't seen the 320 X5 so I'm not sure what that looks like. 

Edited by B_RAD

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Those are 1911 terms.  My understanding is, I can be wrong, the X5 bull barrel, or Stock 2 bull barrel, works differently.  I don't think they have any bushing associated.  

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The stock 2 has wbat I'd  call a bull barrel. Like a 1911. I googled this gun and it has a barrel like a glock or other poly/striker guns. Maybe it's got a thicker barrel but I wouldn't call that a bull barrel. 

 

 

Saying that, who knows how IDPA would rule on that?  Doesn't help that Sig is specifically calling it a bull barrel. 

 

Gun looks cool though!

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You guys are missing the point.  Sig does not sponsor IDPA so it's not going to be legal.  Now if S&W or WC did it that would be another story.

 

Our AC said that since Sig used the term "bull barrel" in the description, it will not be legal.  I guess that's easier than figuring out what a bull barrel is in IDPA land.

Edited by Mike62

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I am guessing the IDPA rule change from not allowing any bull barrels to allowing up to 4.25'' bull barrel has something to do with sponsors? Does the 4.25 inch magic number have anything to do with WC CQB Commander?

Edited by JusticeOfToren

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Bull barrels are not prohibited. Heavy and Cone style barrels are.

 

Generally, a bull barrel would fit that description. But that would also generally be referring to 1911 barrels. So if the Sig barrel matches the profile of a heavy or Cone style barrel, then yes, it's illegal. But if it doesn't, then it doesn't matter what they call it. I haven't seen one in person, but the pics I could find online don't show that much meat around the muzzle. IMO.

 

Edit: Take a look at the Tanfo Stock III. That's a heavy or Cone style barrel. Lots of meat on that barrel/muzzle. 

Edited by v1911

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22 hours ago, v1911 said:

Bull barrels are not prohibited. Heavy and Cone style barrels are.

 

Not really relevant, but amusing; the "bull barrel" was originally heavier than the "heavy barrel" in Winchester Model 70 Target parlance.

 

The gun mutations are so wild that a lot of this trivial stuff could and should be dropped.

If I were the barrel czar:

A gun of bushing design must retain the bushing.  Sorry, Wilson Tactical Elitists.

If it didn't start out with a bushing, barrel diameter is free.

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The P320 X5 has already been deemed legal by Robert Ray. The barrel is heavier, but it's the same diameter for its entire length. There are other "traits" in the X5 that I wonder about the legality of though. For instance, it has a removable weight in the grip. :wacko:

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Bill,

 

Where did Robert post that clarification? 

 

Thanks!

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36 minutes ago, Mike62 said:

Bill,

 

Where did Robert post that clarification? 

 

Thanks!

Nothing official has been posted yet that I've seen. He apparently looked at the gun at the NRAAM and said it was good to go...SSP without the magwell attached, and ESP with the magwell. Even with the magwell, it fits in the box.

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Thanks Bill.  I'm curious to see how they handle the weight.

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The weight issue is funny to me.  My 42oz tanfo is g2g but don't you dare add 2 ounces of weight to your 25oz glock/M&P/Sig320.....that would be cheating.

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2 hours ago, Mike62 said:

The weight issue is funny to me.  My 42oz tanfo is g2g but don't you dare add 2 ounces of weight to your 25oz glock/M&P/Sig320.....that would be cheating.

:bow:

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The 2017 rules say:

 

Quote

8.1.12 Non-IDPA-Legal Features and Modifications for All Divisions

Heavy and/or cone style barrels without a barrel bushing except as allowed in ESP, CCP, BUG and CDP divisions
with length restrictions.

 

So the P320 X5 barrel is not considered "heavy and/or cone" style barrel, correct?  Does it have a barrel bushing?  If it does not, it's still not legal, unless they change the rules (again).

 

Tanfoglio Stock 3 has a regular barrel.  It is actually IDPA SSP legal as long as you can make weight.

Tanfoglio Stock 2 has a bull/cone barrel and it does not have a barrel bushing.  This gun is currently not legal because of the "heavy and/or cone" barrel restriction. 

 

I wish the above rule can be removed to avoid confusions in deciding which gun's bull barrel is "heavy and/or cone without a barrel bushing".  

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IDPA equipment rules make so much sense. I'm just going to run whatever I want.

 

Bull barrels now legal. (Sig)

 

Lightening cuts legal (dvc)

 

Mill exterior of slide for bushing (accu)

 

What else have we decided is legal now?

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2 hours ago, Racinready300ex said:

IDPA equipment rules make so much sense. I'm just going to run whatever I want.

 

Bull barrels now legal. (Sig)

 

Lightening cuts legal (dvc)

 

Mill exterior of slide for bushing (accu)

 

What else have we decided is legal now?

 

I couldn't believe that the DVC cuts were deemed legal.

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Its been talked about on here, apparently at least one was shot a indoor nationals.

Sent from my XT1030 using Tapatalk

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I heard that the Gray Guns trigger for Sig P320 X5 is also SSP legal now.  This after-market trigger can be either straight or curved, which has a different profile than the factory trigger. 

 

I wonder if this is legal, why won't the APEX trigger for MP9s also be legal?

 

 

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1 hour ago, JusticeOfToren said:

I heard that the Gray Guns trigger for Sig P320 X5 is also SSP legal now.  This after-market trigger can be either straight or curved, which has a different profile than the factory trigger. 

 

I wonder if this is legal, why won't the APEX trigger for MP9s also be legal?

 

 

Where did you see  the official word on this from IDPA?

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3 hours ago, JusticeOfToren said:

 

I saw it here:

 

Highly suspect source. I would try to get it in writing. The guy who was talking about it on Facebook called HQ on the phone. 

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On 5/13/2017 at 8:23 AM, Racinready300ex said:

IDPA equipment rules make so much sense. I'm just going to run whatever I want.

 

Bull barrels now legal. (Sig)

Sig calls it a bull barrel but it doesn't appear to be one. Probably marketing hype much like all the Match barrels manufactures claim to be using in their guns.

 

Lightening cuts legal (dvc)

Glock has been carving huge coffin cuts out the top of their slides for years (on SSP legal guns no less) and now that ESP legal guns are being produced with extra slide milling, it becomes questionable?

 

Mill exterior of slide for bushing (accu)

You got me there. I can't imagine why anyone would want a DA/SA gun for ESP anyways.

 

What else have we decided is legal now?

I'm going to petition that as a man, if I self-identify as a woman, that I can use a DOH holster. And if I have to use the women's restroom to sell my story, I'm ok with that. :P

Just my thoughts.

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The ACCU was explicitly ruled to be not legal for IDPA. 

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