MissionaryMike Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 2 hours ago, IronArcher said: Oh hell, I was 100% on CCI with a #14 PDO. They just don't like to extract properly from my (and apparently some others) guns. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro Have you tried extra power extractor spring? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelsonAK Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 15.5 lb spring. Heavy firing pin. Titan hammer. Polished internals. S&B were running 100%. 14 lb and standard extended fp- not 100%. DA pull increased about a lb. SA pull pretty much the same.Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronArcher Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Have you tried extra power extractor spring? I have some, but I never put them in.I was hearing conflicting reports on if they needed to be cut or not just to function at all. I tried different ammo and it completely eliminated the problem, so I never bothered. I polished a brand new extractor, and threw it in. I suppose I owe it to myself to finally try the heavy spring. As for other trials, just got in my Xtreme medium hammer spring. DA on a dirty gun (condition it will most likely be in after a stage or 2 after cleaning) came in right at #6.15, SA a perfectly acceptable 2.15. These are averages of decent, repeatable pulls.I found you can really play with the numbers depending on how you pull.Best pulls were 6.00 and 2.05This is now on a very accurate scale I am borrowing from work, certified to be +/- 0.2% (about .001 pounds for our purposes... though it only reads to the nearest .05) Launch test.Again using sections of straight plastic coat hangers 4.5" long. 3rd place Stock pin. Clearly 2" or more behind the other 2 2nd place PDO pin. And I mean by a whisker! 1st place Henning (I have no idea which gen this pin is.... whatever he was selling last January). DA it was clear the PDO and Henning pin were significantly ahead of the stock pin. Both runs overlapped each other quite a bit these were VERY close. Too close to really call a winner. Both did as well on their worst runs as the stock pin did on its best save for 1 run. SA (I did not test the stock pin here as no matter how it would have done, the DA hit is more important to me (shooting production) They again traded blow for blow, the only reason I give it to the Henning pin is that it had the highest single hit (the only one to hit the ceiling from my lowest test point). Again, I am using the light, heart shaped trigger. I am fully confident that the PDO pin WILL out perform the Henning pin with a Titan hammer (and likely the heavier heart hammer, but I have no evidence of this). Will have to do final DA tests with the rock hard Perfecta primers, but I am cautiously optimistic that both will pop them reliably. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted February 17, 2017 Author Share Posted February 17, 2017 I've been running my Wolff extra power extractor spring without cutting it. Getting it installed isn't fun, but it has been working great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronArcher Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Cool, I'll try it before my next day at the range.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddjob Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 (edited) Had about two light hits at a local match (12 lb spring) last month (WW small pistol primers). Dropped in the 15.5 lb spring last week. The double action was heavier, but seemed smoother. The single action became heavier, but more crisp. I'll get my friend's Lyman trigger pull gauge later this week and see the results. Today I had no light hits and the gun ran fine with the same batch of ammo. Once the buzzer goes off I can't tell a lot difference in the triggers (12 vs 15.5 springs). The heavier spring brings more peace of mind to me anyways. I'm staying with the 15.5 spring....well for the time being! Edited February 20, 2017 by oddjob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlB86 Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 (edited) I'd like to give some completely anecdotal information specific to my gun alone. My SIII was built by Patriot Defense last year. 13lb hammer spring, polished up factory pin, bolo int, titan hammer, etc. Has their whole reliability and trigger job. I decided to buy this pin, not because I was having issues, but to see if it would help with a really heavy primer like CCI. My goal was to have a few "setups" I could use given any primer availability. -13lb spring, factory pin, Winchester primers work on DA/SA -13lb spring, this new pin, Winchester primers won't pop on DA (they will on SA) I'm throwing the 14lb hammer spring and will test these two pins again with Winchester and the hard CCI primers. I'll do the same with the 15.5lb that is on the way. Edited February 20, 2017 by CarlB86 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted February 20, 2017 Author Share Posted February 20, 2017 Interesting. So your heavier and longer firing pin is not - as of this writing - better than the factory one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatriotDefense Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 1 hour ago, CarlB86 said: I'd like to give some completely anecdotal information specific to my gun alone. My SIII was built by Patriot Defense last year. 13lb hammer spring, polished up factory pin, bolo int, titan hammer, etc. Has their whole reliability and trigger job. I decided to buy this pin, not because I was having issues, but to see if it would help with a really heavy primer like CCI. My goal was to have a few "setups" I could use given any primer availability. -13lb spring, factory pin, Winchester primers work on DA/SA -13lb spring, this new pin, Winchester primers won't pop on DA (they will on SA) I'm throwing the 14lb hammer spring and will test these two pins again with Winchester and the hard CCI primers. I'll do the same with the 15.5lb that is on the way. Out of curiosity, have you verified your not dragging across the FPB with the new pin?.?.?..... I know you where 100% before, was the same spring used, same ammo? Also what did the ever trusted "pencil test" look like with your gun? Just asking as i find it interesting if the pencil launch shows the pencil launching higher one way or another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlB86 Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 8 minutes ago, PatriotDefense said: Out of curiosity, have you verified your not dragging across the FPB with the new pin?.?.?..... I know you where 100% before, was the same spring used, same ammo? Also what did the ever trusted "pencil test" look like with your gun? Just asking as i find it interesting if the pencil launch shows the pencil launching higher one way or another. Sorry, did not test any drag with the new pin. I will take a look at that. Same batch of ammo using winchester primers and same springs. Primers seated below flush. I did the pencil test and the new pin did throw the pencil higher. Not sure what conclusions to draw from that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted February 20, 2017 Author Share Posted February 20, 2017 Try taking the firing pin block out and shooting it. That's a pretty helpful test, in these cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnbu Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 Carlb86, that is a "interesting" result and somewhat confusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlB86 Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 (edited) 26 minutes ago, MemphisMechanic said: Try taking the firing pin block out and shooting it. That's a pretty helpful test, in these cases. I'll try that too and see if there is any change. My gun runs on the pin that Patriot Defense fitted and polished, but if this could get me an even better primer strike than I am all for this pin. Any good links to fitting the pin to the FPB if that is the culprit? Edited February 20, 2017 by CarlB86 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlB86 Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 22 minutes ago, johnbu said: Carlb86, that is a "interesting" result and somewhat confusing. Yep, it just sort of personally re-enforced that the pencil test might not be the end all be all considering the pin did get a higher result for me. Maybe it was causing a slower, but harder push, rather than a faster "snap" that caused ignition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted February 20, 2017 Author Share Posted February 20, 2017 Well, I have not tested it myself. But several people have mentioned that striker fired guns like a Glock are lucky to even clear the barrel. But they will chew up CCI primers like there's no tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlB86 Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 19 minutes ago, MemphisMechanic said: Well, I have not tested it myself. But several people have mentioned that striker fired guns like a Glock are lucky to even clear the barrel. But they will chew up CCI primers like there's no tomorrow. Yes, my Glocks will not send a pencil out of the barrel. Low mass striker, moves short distance, but very fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatriotDefense Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 (edited) 15 hours ago, CarlB86 said: I'll try that too and see if there is any change. My gun runs on the pin that Patriot Defense fitted and polished, but if this could get me an even better primer strike than I am all for this pin. Any good links to fitting the pin to the FPB if that is the culprit? It really has to do with feel and i guess you get a "tuned" ear for what it sounds like when the hammer drops. Usually you start with a highly polished FPB and FP, drop the hammer several time sin DA/SA, remove the pieces and inspect for penning around the areas the FPB and FP make contact. Can you confirm you have our Firing Pin Spring in the gun as well? Edited February 21, 2017 by PatriotDefense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronArcher Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 (edited) So, got to do more testing, right before a match (and I mean literally RIGHT before). Unbelievably, Agulia and Perfecta are STILL not 100% DA! But all is not lost! 1) I picked up a box of Federal ammo to test (yep 100% DA/SA) 2) I took MissionaryMike's advice, tried out the Wolf extra power extractor spring and the Winchester White box ammo (that had horrible extraction issues) ALSO ran 100%! Unfortunately, I burned up all I brought in testing. For my match, I ran the Aguilas .... but put one of the federals on top of each mag. Went the whole match without a single hitch! I did NOT get a chance to try the PDO pin, maybe that will help, but for now, I am VERY happy that I can run WWB 124 without a hitch. Someone somewhere said that those and the CCI Blazer brass were effectively the same thing. I can't confirm or deny that, but the CCI 124 is the next stuff to be tested. Honestly, it WAS my first choice... until they didn't want to extract... now that I got the Wolf extractor spring in it, I'll be back to some of the least expensive, and softest shooting factory ammo out there. Worst case scenario, I buy a couple more boxes of the Federal to top off mags, and burn up my Agulia stock, then go to all WWB/CCI Blazer. Anyone know if the aforementioned rumor of the CCI Blazer, and WWB is accurate? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro Edited February 27, 2017 by IronArcher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlB86 Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 On 2/21/2017 at 7:09 AM, PatriotDefense said: It really has to do with feel and i guess you get a "tuned" ear for what it sounds like when the hammer drops. Usually you start with a highly polished FPB and FP, drop the hammer several time sin DA/SA, remove the pieces and inspect for penning around the areas the FPB and FP make contact. Can you confirm you have our Firing Pin Spring in the gun as well? Yes, this one has the enhanced spring. I did some polishing of the FPB and FP to tried and look for penning. If it is happening, hard for me to see. I'll try to make some time to test with and without the FPB to see if that allows for DA ignition using the new firing pin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emjei Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Updates? ???Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted March 3, 2017 Author Share Posted March 3, 2017 (edited) Early next week I hope to have time to test all the common springs out there: EGD Light & Medium Wolff 13/14/15 Patriot 10/12/13/14/15.5 I'll check them all both trigger pull and pencil height with the Titan/BOLO combination. So we'll have a much more inclusive guide to what happens in the exact same gun with "fully optimized" internals. Edited March 3, 2017 by MemphisMechanic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emjei Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Great......so far I kept the EGD Medium since Im 100% CCI ignition. ......but that DA is not at its best at allSent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted March 3, 2017 Author Share Posted March 3, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, emjei said: Great......so far I kept the EGD Medium since Im 100% CCI ignition. ......but that DA is not at its best at all I run the same "eats anything" setup. And I agree: If the 15.5 patriot will set off everything, I'll definitely run it in my gun since the Medium spring stacks rather sharply at the end of the pull, and their springs do not. My ammo is literally 'worst case scenario' however. So we will see! Edited March 3, 2017 by MemphisMechanic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malarkey Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 So really the question is what is the lowest weight spring which spring will set off everything with a titan hammer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnbu Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 Ammo, internal configuration, polish AND spring are all working as a system. Tough to pin it only on springs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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