Which CZ for a wrong (left) handed female?

[JWBaldree]

Started my 15yo daughter on steel and USPSA over the last year. She has been liking the sport and is starting to get into it more. She has been using a 9mm 1911, but is starting to like my CZ Shadow Custom. Thinking about setting her up with her own CZ production gun. As she is wrong (left) handed, we've been eyeballing the 85 as well as the Decocker models. The 85 seems like a no brainer being totally ambi, but she pretty much slingshots from slide lock, so the ambi slide release feature isn't that much of a feature. i was thinking of a decocker as it would eliminate bumping into the safety, and she wouldn't have to deal with lowering the hammer by hand at make ready. She is more than capable of performing that task, but it seems like girl hands and safeties don't always play nice with accidental bumping.  Has anyone else gone through this with a lefty with smaller hands? Advice appreciated.

[rowdyb]

Most the CZ shooting lefties I know run whatever gun they want, but they install smaller safeties, slide release, mag release from other models to suit their handedness.

A very common fix for accidental safety bumping is to 1. work on your grip 2. install slim safeties 3. sharpen the safety detent with a file 4. install and extra power safety detent spring. Do all of these and the safety bump for a lefty is a non issue. Or anyone one for that matter.

What I do hear from lefties is how the very top most edge of certain grips hit their hand, how the pin of the slide stop on the rh side of the gun hits their hand. Normally this is from adult males, so not sure if your daughters grip places her into any of those positions.

And is oft repeated, the interior workings of the decocker guns is a little more complex than the safety and certainly any of the shadow variants. So if you're going to be doing any tuning or detail stripping just be prepared for a little harder work.

My advice is a 75 Shadow. (The short dust cover, nnoott the SP01) Various ones online from $900-1200. Very definitely a proven competition gun.

[MemphisMechanic]

Not smaller hands, but a lefty here:

I deliberately chose the Tanfoglios over CZs because CZs are too small for my hands. The large frame of the Stock 3 felt perfectly molded to me when I picked it up.

I will assume that the CZ magazine release can be reversed like the Tanfo's. That takes care of that issue: install the largest Production legal extended button you can, and she may or may not have to flip the gun in her had to hit it... but she gets to do so with her strong thumb.

Run the lightest recoil spring the gun will operate with and which plays well with your ammo, and teach her to cock the hammer before loading it so that she gets that lightweight rack at load & make ready.

Here's the big one: "tune" the slide stop. With some filing to tweak the angles on the slide stop and it's corresponding notch in the slide, plus a few minutes of polishing you can make the gun effortlessly "auto forward" when a magazine is seated. I have my gun set up so that it takes just a bit more effort than I usually exert in a speed reload. I have to bump it into place just a bit harder than that and it will run forward and chamber a round every single time. I kept it from going forward really really easily so that the slide doesn't drop when you accidentally crash into the bottom of the frame when you botch a reload. I also don't have to hammer the magazine into the gun to get it to auto forward like I did when it was new.

An auto-forward reload was important for me because I ride the ambi safety with my strong thumb when I shoot, and that safety is tragically in the way when attempting to use my trigger finger to swipe the slide release down like I did on Glocks. So aside from boning myself with a slow manual slingshot, there's no other logical way to execute a slide-lock reload.

Edited December 14, 2016 by MemphisMechanic

[rowdyb]

I like memphis mech, but as a rule I am against the 'auto forward' reload 100%.  But that's another post! hahahaha.

Yes, the mag release is reversible on the CZ.

[Lior]

Lefty adults have more in common with righty adults than with lefty minors.
I'm a southpaw and my experience echos that of MemphisMechanic. After running a Shadow for 3 years I considered it too narrow and wound up with a TS and a Czechmate. Treated myself to a CZ custom wide right safety as well. I ended up reversing the mag catches of these shooters because of negligent mag dumps and safetying during mag changes.

[MemphisMechanic]

19 minutes ago, rowdyb said:

I like memphis mech, but as a rule I am against the 'auto forward' reload 100%.

I always was, too.

On Glocks and M&Ps... it has a nasty habit of occasionally failing to strip a round out of the magazine. 

On this gun it's been perfect, and there simply isn't a clean way to drop the slide of a lefty short of racking it - and taking too long.

[IHAVEGAS]

8 hours ago, JWBaldree said:

we've been eyeballing the 85

Bought an 85 last year. Still trying to get happy with it.

Install all the CGW or CZ custom firing controls, revise (bend) or replace the magazine release spring so you can not push the release too far, install DSPerman safety springs as noted above, and now all that stuff is good.

For me the stock sights just did not do it. The rear leaf was too short and I could not get a quick confident sight picture. Install fiber front and competition rear & that fixes that but more money spent & I prefer a good adjustable sight to a good fixed sight.

Now the only issue I have to resolve with the gun is jams, it wants to half way auto forward sometimes. Not at all would be good or always with no ftf's would be good. Sometimes & with ftf's I am not a fan of.

If it was me I would buy her a product that was ready to run out of the box 75 shadow as noted above or maybe wait a bit and pick up a Shadow 2 assuming they are lefty friendly. 

 

Edit: Or a Tanfo I guess. People have stock 2 extremes in stock, priced fair when you consider that they come with 4 mags and need nothing, so it seems anyway. 

Edited December 14, 2016 by IHAVEGAS

[twowheels]

My son and I are leftys.  We have shadows.   I shoot an sp 01 and he shoots a 75.  We have reversed mag releases.  I agree with rowdy's recommendation, a 75 shadow is hard to beat for someone who isn't a brute.   

[MemphisMechanic]

Re: Stock 2 Xtreme? Two issues there.

First, it's a big grip. My girlfriend is 5'1" and 115 and if she ever wants to exit the M&P game, she's going CZ because she likes them much more than my longer, fatter large frame.

Second, you can outfit a Tanfoglio with a vastly superior trigger to the Xtreme guns for far less money. The only true benefit to the Xtreme is found outside the US, where you can't stick a variety of aftermarket springs and disconnector into it from Patriot Defense (the CGW of the Tanfoglio world.)

[MemphisMechanic]

3 minutes ago, twowheels said:

My son and I are leftys.  We have shadows.   I shoot an sp 01 and he shoots a 75.  We have reversed mag releases.  I agree with rowdy's recommendation, a 75 shadow is hard to beat for someone who isn't a brute.   

How do you handle a slide lock reload on the clock?

[IHAVEGAS]

18 minutes ago, MemphisMechanic said:

Re: Stock 2 Xtreme? Two issues there.

First, it's a big grip. My girlfriend is 5'1" and 115 and if she ever wants to exit the M&P game, she's going CZ because she likes them much more than my longer, fatter large frame.

Second, you can outfit a Tanfoglio with a vastly superior trigger to the Xtreme guns for far less money. The only true benefit to the Xtreme is found outside the US, where you can't stick a variety of aftermarket springs and disconnector into it from Patriot Defense (the CGW of the Tanfoglio world.)

My bad. Saw 1627 vs 2200 msrp and was thinking that comes out pretty good all things considered, & then there is the grip thing. 

 

 

[JWBaldree]

Starting to look like a 75 Shadow Custom build. I think I know where I can get my hands on a Rami, just for her to get a feel for the thin safeties preference wise. Does anyone know if a 85 slide stop will fit in a 75 Shadow, or if that would be worth doing? I'm assuming it can be done, and that the value of doing it is going to be a user preference thing, so probably a goofy question.

[IHAVEGAS]

32 minutes ago, JWBaldree said:

Starting to look like a 75 Shadow Custom build. I think I know where I can get my hands on a Rami, just for her to get a feel for the thin safeties preference wise. Does anyone know if a 85 slide stop will fit in a 75 Shadow, or if that would be worth doing? I'm assuming it can be done, and that the value of doing it is going to be a user preference thing, so probably a goofy question.

Comparing my 85 to my 75 cts, on the 85 the right side of the frame is drilled larger to allow the right side slide stop to fit into the frame and over the slide stop shaft. 

It appears to be something that a custom shop could do for you fairly inexpensively. Just guessing though. 

Externally visible modification would take her out of production class I think. 

Edited December 14, 2016 by IHAVEGAS

[twowheels]

4 hours ago, MemphisMechanic said:

How do you handle a slide lock reload on the clock?

Our slides drop with a good firm seating of the magazine so loads are very quick. 

[GeneBray]

Being a righty with smaller hands.  Here is my two cents.  The 85 Combat I think is a good choice.  Lighter than the SP01s and less weight at the end of the barrel.  Down side is probably more muzzle flip unless your daughter works hard a increasing grip strength and works hard on proper grip.  Some people find the 85 easier to transition rapidly target to target.  The general comment is seems faster and easier to stop on the new target.

I would start with your daughter handling and hopefully shooting several of the pistols mentioned in your post and in the responses.  Go with the pistol that feels best in her hand, fits her hand size the best, and points the best when drawing, transitioning target to target, and settles faster when shooting.  

Most, if not all, CZs have reversible mag release.   Albeit in most, the screw holding a spring in place is staked and can be very difficult to break loose.  Issues like a protruding mags release or grips can be solved very easily.  

The decocker will be personal preference.  You will get a better trigger on the non-decocker.  I understand your comments about decocking versus lower the hammer.  I've been shooting a CZ SP01 in Production for 7+ years.  At first, very nervous about lowering the hammer.  I still use a very slow, meticulous method to lower the hammer.  I doubt you can be too cautious on lowering the hammer on a loaded chamber.  The decocker will shorten the trigger pull and also lighten the pull weight since the hammer is resting on the half-cock.  That is an advantage and also makes reaching the trigger easier for someone with small hands.

Hope my comments are helpful.  

[shoots100]

P-07.

Smaller Frame.

Multiple Back strap options.

Ambi mag release.

Decocker or Safety option.

CGW and CZ upgrades.

If she doesn't like it, you can use it as a carry option.

I'm a lefty, was looking for the same requirements as you(except the frame size) and the P-09 has worked for me.

[M1A4ME]

If you want to have your frame (right side) drilled for the right side CZ 85 slide release go ahead and buy the CZ 85 left side slide release, too.  The CZ 85 has a longer shaft on the left slide release so it sticks out through the right side slide release so you can push the left side release out far enough to pull it out of the frame to field strip the pistol.

I was researching/buying parts to try to modify a CZ 75 Compact into a "CZ 85 Compact" or mini me, prior to my wife shooting the project gun and liking it so much better than her CZ 75 Compact.  Now I have to wait till later in the winter to save up some more money for another CZ 75 Compact.

Edited December 17, 2016 by M1A4ME

[IDescribe]

Wait a month and let her handle P-10C before making the final decision.

[JWBaldree]

She is liking metal framed guns a lot. I've had her try various plastic framed guns, P-09, S&W, Glock 34 and a Springfield 5,25. She was pretty much like "Meh" on all of them.  She just likes the recoil impulse of the heavier guns. Plastic would be way more economical for Dad, but whatever works for her.

 

[yellowfin]

On 12/14/2016 at 11:56 PM, GeneBray said:

  Most, if not all, CZs have reversible mag release.   Albeit in most, the screw holding a spring in place is staked and can be very difficult to break loose.

I am in the midst of dealing with this very problem, the screw for the mag release spring being stuck.  I can't get it to move.  Any tips on making this happen?  Anyone, anyone at all?  It's a flat headed screw and it's starting to strip with my efforts thus far.  I really wish they'd been more considerate in the matter and made it an allen head or Torx to make it easier to move when needed.

Edited January 30, 2017 by yellowfin

[GeneBray]

I am in the midst of dealing with this very problem, the screw for the mag release spring being stuck.  I can't get it to move.  Any tips on making this happen?  Anyone, anyone at all?  It's a flat headed screw and it's starting to strip with my efforts thus far.  I really wish they'd been more considerate in the matter and made it an allen head or Torx to make it easier to move when needed.

My solution to getting the screw out was: 1) find a large blade screw driver with a square shank that fits the screw slot, 2) remove slide, 4) clamp receiver in vice taking care to ensure no mating, 5) using a LOT of down pressure on the screw driver and crescent wrench to turn the screw driver to break the stakes.


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[yellowfin]

I'm somehow not doing this right, or it's taking a lot more pressure to turn than I'm able to give it.