Tactical Lights

[Clay1]

Did a search under Surefire and found a couple people talking about the new X200 but didn't find anything on a hand held light. Am considering one of the following: C2, Z2, or M2. Could use a push in the right direction. Have a Streamlight M3X for a weapon mounted light already, but am interested in a hand held in addition to the weapon mounted light. The one recharable on the maybe list is a Streamlight Strion.

If this needs to go in a different board feel free to move this where you think it should go. IDPA night shoots won't allow weapon mounted lights (goofy as hell, but that's the rules). Thanks

Rick

[GuildSF4]

Have you considered the Surefire G2 or G2Z. They are Nitrolon. The G2 is about $34, and the NRA G2Z is about $75 (or the P6 which is aluminum and about $56.)

You can get them direct.

[Chriss Grube]

The surefire Z series lights are the only way to fly. I've carried one daily for 6 years and its seen all kinds of weather, been dropped, and abused.... still works great. I'm sure the plastic ones are ok for sticking in the glove box but the metal ones will take a beating for years.

[pisgahrifle]

Check out the C2. It's really just a downsized Z2, and now you can use the click-on tailcaps on it. A shad pricey, but worth it, and if the damn thing has any problems at all SF will fix it. Their customer service is absolutely amazing.

[GuildSF4]

The surefire Z series lights are the only way to fly. I've carried one daily for 6 years and its seen all kinds of weather, been dropped, and abused.... still works great. I'm sure the plastic ones are ok for sticking in the glove box but the metal ones will take a beating for years.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I've had a plastic one for a few years, and it works great no problems with dropping or banging it around.

I also have a Z6 (not made any more), and a couple E2's I carry an E2 all the time and have never had a problem with it but they are expensive (I would add well worth it).

[Clay1]

I've been doing some research on the web and have found some amazing reviews of a new light called the L4. It is in the same price bracket as the M2. The L4 doesn't have the shooting grip but the performance is fantastic.

Anyone using a M2 do you think the extra few dollars are worth it over the Z2 or current C2? 5 to 10 years down the road no one is going to remember another $50. Love to hear more info along with the why you chose another light.

Thanks all for the comments so far.

[Scooter]

You should also go to the local Wally Mart and pick up a Brinkman Maxfire LX. The overall output is a just a hair less than the Surefire P60 lamp (C2, M2, G2). But you can't beat the price. $15 with batteries. It also has a two position switch on the tail cap.

[EricW]

I have a Z3 (actually two) and can't imagine having a light that didn't have rubber o-rings. I don't know how you could shoot with it otherwise. I also couldn't imagine having something with less than 100 lumens output. That sucker stops people and animals cold in their tracks, I kid you not. Done it with both. No, I don't think a flashlight will make PCP junkies fall to their knees, but it's tough for a semi-rational individual to pursue an attack when they're blind. Probably kept someone (not me) from getting seriously hurt (you figure it out).

My Z3's have held up to 4 years of daily abuse. I'm very happy I didn't buy less. I use mine daily when I'm out walking or jogging and it's awesome for slowing cars down. They think it's a headlight. Works like a charm.

I would absolutely not buy a plastic "tactial" light for defensive use. What good is it if it can't double as a kubotan/striking tool? The only exception to plastic would be if you're using one in the dead of winter. That aluminum sucks the heat out of your hand pretty quick.

I also think the trend toward the dinky 2-cell models is a mistake. Too short. I thought the gun-mounted ones have all been kind of hokey, but I'm warming up to the Surefire X200. Looks like a quality unit.

[GuildSF4]

I have a G2 in my truck, my wife has one also. A Z6 with the 120 lumen bulb for easy access at night. And I always have an E2e on my hip (this replaced the mini-mag light and fits in the same holster, a good flashlight is necessary for my job).

Also our boys overseas have a lot of G2s in Tan according to my source.

(I gotta wonder though plastic framed gun OK, plastic with metal lining flashlight bad?)

[walangkatapat]

I have a Streamlight TL-3 that's been pretty good.

[shred]

I really like my TL2-LED and Digital L4 as go-everywhere lights. They're not the uber-blast of light, but do OK as urchin repellent, and with good battery life, I take it and use them everywhere.

[EricW]

(I gotta wonder though plastic framed gun OK, plastic with metal lining flashlight bad?) 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

One's a contact weapon, the other isn't. That's the difference.

[GuildSF4]

(I gotta wonder though plastic framed gun OK, plastic with metal lining flashlight bad?) 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

One's a contact weapon, the other isn't. That's the difference.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry, should have added just kidding.

[davidwiz]

USPSA gave all the RO's a Surefire G2 as a gift for working the 2004 Nats. It's a hell of a nice flashlight. IIRC, the USSS and FBI issue similar Surefire flashlights. Streamlight also make comparable lights.

-David

[Chriss Grube]

Yep, Plastic flashlights are a one whack option. Polymer stream light replaced with aluminum problem solved.

[GeorgeInNePa]

Yep, Plastic flashlights are a one whack option. Polymer stream light replaced with aluminum problem solved.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh man, there's a good smartassed comment here just waiting to be unleashed, but I'm going to let it go for now...

[Heath]

Inova T3 is a nice alternative to a surefire. It has an 85 Lumen 3W Luxeon emitter and takes two CR123 lithium batteries. It's made of aluminum, is HA-III anodized and costs about $50.

[Kevin Kline]

For now, I'd stick with Surefire. You can find lithium batteries for almost a dollar a piece on the internet and they are without a doubt better than other rechargeable lights. I've got about 8 Surefires that are all lithium batteried lights and I also have rechargable Streamlights and I love the Surefires. I like the Streamlights also, but can't compare them to Surefires.

[stingerjg]

I have a 6P that ive had for several years and carry all of the time. Very durable and reliable. A few years ago i bought one of the Nitrolon light, I like it just as much as the alum one and its alot lighter.

[GuildSF4]

For now, I'd stick with Surefire. You can find lithium batteries for almost a dollar a piece on the internet and they are without a doubt better than other rechargeable lights. I've got about 8 Surefires that are all lithium batteried lights and I also have rechargable Streamlights and I love the Surefires. I like the Streamlights also, but can't compare them to Surefires.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just be careful on the lithium batteries, the ones from overseas don't have the safety features. (Check out the article in American handgunner). I get my batteries direct from Surefire at about $1.40 each including shipping if I by 2 or 3 packs at a time. Can't find that price in stores.

[Flexmoney]

That is what I hjear too...first thing to do with a cheaper light is to replace the batteries with Surefire batteries.

I have a two-cell light made by S&W sitting here. It is an OK light for the money I have in it, but it's no Surefire. New batteries helped it out a lot though.

[Heath]

Just be careful on the lithium batteries, the ones from overseas don't have the safety features. (Check out the article in American handgunner). I get my batteries direct from Surefire at about $1.40 each including shipping if I by 2 or 3 packs at a time. Can't find that price in stores. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The term "lithium" describes a lot of different battery chemistries. For primary non-rechargeable cells, there's lithium sulfur dioxide (LiSO2), lithium manganese dioxide (LiMn02), and polycarbonmonofluoride (Li/CFn) and some others that are less common. I believe that most CR123s are LiMnO2 or Li-CFn which doesn't suffer from the same explosion hazards as Li-Ion or Li-Poly rechargeble batteries which do require a protection circuit.

For Lithium rechargeables, excess charge or discharge currents will cause the pack to heat up a great deal and explode or set things on fire. This comes as a result of the fact that they have very low internal resistance. I once accidentally welded the battery tabs of an almost completely discharged Li-Poly battery to a piece of stainless, which illustrates the huge amount of current that they can source at relatively low voltages (3V when discharged).

Lithium rechargeables do require protection circuits which are quite cheap and available in monolithic packages. Generally, a very small PCB and a few passive components are required along with a single IC. The circuit limits the charge and discharge currents and also provides a battery cutoff at 3V. Discharging a Lithium rechargeable below that level will damage the battery. Protection circuits can be manufactured very cheaply in high volumes and are widely available. Any reputable manufacturer, even asian ones would most likely rather include a protection circuit than face the liability that comes with not including one. I've seen a fair number of the Chinese manufactured knock-offs rechargeables for digital cameras and whatnot and they've all included protection circuitry.

I suppose my point is that CR123 type batteries don't require protection circuitry and are unlikely to pose a hazard even at very high discharge rates.

I'd also like to add that SureFire lights aren't inherently better than any other source of light. They are simply well-built. If one wants or needs the quality and durability of a SureFire, then by all means, have one. However, if one simply needs a source of light at a given brightness that uses a certain battery technology, there are cheaper alternatives for pretty much every class of light that they make.

[GuildSF4]

Just be careful on the lithium batteries, the ones from overseas don't have the safety features. (Check out the article in American handgunner). I get my batteries direct from Surefire at about $1.40 each including shipping if I by 2 or 3 packs at a time. Can't find that price in stores. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I suppose my point is that CR123 type batteries don't require protection circuitry and are unlikely to pose a hazard even at very high discharge rates.

I'd also like to add that SureFire lights aren't inherently better than any other source of light. They are simply well-built. If one wants or needs the quality and durability of a SureFire, then by all means, have one. However, if one simply needs a source of light at a given brightness that uses a certain battery technology, there are cheaper alternatives for pretty much every class of light that they make.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My information is based on the article in the most recent American Handgunner. I have not personally seen one do that. I have experienced early battery failure from cheaper CR123 batteries.

Quaility and Durability that's the ticket.

[Duane Thomas]

I own a number of SureFire flashlights, but the one I carry is a 6P, the original SureFire. You can get stuff that's bigger, or lighter, or has this or that cool but not indispensable feature, but really nothing that works any better, for my purposes. In my opinion SureFire got it right the first time.

Just got an X200 in the mail today. Can't wait to get it on the range and try it out.

[EricW]

If SureFire puts electronic protection inside their CR123's it must be a secret even to SureFure. I've never seen any type of protection strapped on to them. I'd be careful about the "information" that is published in a gun magazine.

I've had SureFire batteries, Sanyos, and Toshibas. All perform virtually identically. I buy mine for $20/20 from Botach.

I've can almost guarantee that SF's batteries are private labeled from one of the major makers, probably by Duracell or Energizer's parent co (Ray o Vac?).