Improving A Vanek

[LwE]

I now have a stock Vanek trigger job on my G34. It is a vast improvement over all the DIY triggers I have tried, and I was elated when I first got it back and tried it. However, the local production master I am chasing has a Vanek which has been tweaked a little and it is both smoother and lighter than my stock Vanek, so I am now looking to turn a great trigger job into a superlative one.

Vanek doesn't polish the usual places that most DIY trigger jobs focus on, so I assume that that sort of polishing may improve things.

Anyone been down this road already? Lance

[sfinney]

IMHO, trying to improve a Vanek trigger by polishing and working on it some more, would be the equivalent of having a world class engine builder build a motor for your racecar, and then taking it to Pep-Boys for a tuneup. I'd leave well enough alone -

The best polishing job you could do to it now would be to shoot a couple thousand rounds through it, and lots of dry fire - it should get better with use.

[SRT Driver]

Shoot it! It gets better with use.

Mine has over 5k through it and went from 1.5 lb to 1.25 lb and got much smoother.

Bottom line...DON'T MESS WITH IT!!!!!

[sturmruger]

I have a G24 with a Vanek trigger I would never attempt to change anything. It is the by far one of the best triggers I have ever felt.

[Matt Cheely]

... the local production master I am chasing has a Vanek which has been tweaked a little and it is both smoother and lighter than my stock Vanek...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You're probably chasing him because he's got so many rounds downrange

Shoot more than him and watch your trigger get better, along with your scores.

[Kevin Kline]

Agreed with all involved. I'd leave the trigger alone and get the practice downrange. That very little amount is not going to make any difference in chasing the Prod master.

FYI, I've spoken with Sevigny several times and felt his trigger and IMHO, his trigger is much worse than my Vanek of home trigger job I've done, and he is RULING Production. Dave says his trigger is stock.

[GeorgeInNePa]

I now have a stock Vanek trigger job on my G34.  It is a vast improvement over all the DIY triggers I have tried, and I was elated when I first got it back and tried it.  However, the local production master I am chasing has a Vanek which has been tweaked a little and it is both smoother and lighter than my stock Vanek, so I am now looking to turn a great trigger job into a superlative one. 

Vanek doesn't polish the usual places that most DIY trigger jobs focus on, so I assume that that sort of polishing may improve things. 

Anyone been down this road already?  Lance

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You're not chasing his trigger job. I bet that if you gave him a box stock G34, he would still be beating you.

Just get to the shooting.

[Ted Murphy]

Dave's trigger IS stock.

He let me run a few boxes through his steel gun at a GSSF match. It's no different than my g17 with the 3.5 pound connector.

It's the indian not the arrow.

Ted

[LwE]

It's the Interface of this Indian with this particular Arrow which concerns me.

Thanks for the responses. I am encouraged to hear that others have had the trigger smooth out with time and round count. This trigger has about 2000 rounds and a couple of months of dryfiring on it. If this is a self-resolving issue I am not going to mess with it, but I would still like to hear from anyone who has attempted to improve perfection in case anything useful can be learned.

I will quibble with the observation that the trigger difference isn't a factor here, as the master in question is relatively new to the game and until recently I used to beat him consistently. He does practice more than me. I need all the help I can get to stay close to him. It is great to have a rabbit to chase.

At the 2003 Production Nat'ls Matthew Mink used a Vanek to sweep the regular-mortal Production crowd, and the rest of us have had to play catch-up since then. Pete Milionis used one to good advantage last year. The Vanek makes a big difference on steel and one-handed shooting. I think it will be increasingly hard to keep up with the crowd without one.

The exceptional cases don't prove anything in my view. Dave Sevigny is a prodigy. He wins in spite of his equipment. Look at the 2002 World Shoot results and tell me how high the SECOND-place Glock shooter finished. When Dave says he is shooting a stock trigger I have no doubt he is, but even he doesn't always forgo a good trigger. The G21 he used in CDP last year had a very good trigger job which he did himself. Why did he bother if its the Indian not the arrow?

I need every edge I can get. The Vanek is great, and it is reliable. Having felt a little bit better version of the Vanek, I want the improved performance. If I learn anything useful as time goes by I'll report back. Again, thanks to all for the responses, Lance

[EricW]

Drs. Sevigny and Mink could sweep the field with my rusty G19.

2000 rounds over several months isn't really that much shooting. Why not buy more ammo and shoot it?

[SRT Driver]

Here is a shameless plug.

For the record, I shoot a Vanek trigger in my G34. Excellent Trigger!

A friend of mine who has been shooting for a little over a year, got his L10 Master card shooting a G35 with his own 2 lb trigger which he sells as a drop in kit. $50 without a 3 lb connector, $65 with the connector.

Here is a like to his site:

http://www.geocities.com/2lbdropkit@sbcglobal.net/

I can attest to the claim it is 2 lb. I dropped one into my G24 with a 3.5 lb connector and it broke right at 2 lb without any other mods.

[Chriss Grube]

Gee go figure he practices more than you and beats you. Maybe if you step around the tree in front of you you'll see the forest? It aint the gun. Once you realize that you might just beat him.

[Ferrell Spicer]

If all I needed was a Vanek trigger for G17 to beat Mink and Sevigny, I would buy 3. There is no doubt in my mind that either of those guys can pick up my gun and hand me a decisive defeat.

[LwE]

Lots of software responses to a hardware question. I'm really fishing for the hardware answer, as I'd rather not screw up a great trigger job in a ham-handed attempt to achieve the better one I know is out there.

But the responses are interesting to consider further on their own merits.

"2000 rounds over several months isn't really that much shooting. Why not buy more ammo and shoot it?"

Eric, I have reached the point in life where I have a lot more ammo than time in which to shoot it. If I get in another 3000 rounds before the Nat'ls I will be surprized. But happily the trigger should be much improved at that point according to what I am gathering from this thread.

"Gee go figure he practices more than you and beats you. Maybe if you step around the tree in front of you you'll see the forrest? It ain't the gun. Once you realize that you might just beat him."

Chris, I have a recurring knot on my forehead from that tree but maybe some sense has also been pounded into my thick noggin over the years.

If I have to practice more than him to beat him, I am not going to be able to keep up. He is young and motivated, and he has more free time and fewer responsibilities than do I. He may very well also be more talented than me. Fortunately, the correlation between "practice" and performance on race day is problematic. I am usually the least-practiced shooter at the local club matches but that doesn't keep me out of the hunt. My objective is always to optimize my own performance when it counts. I am firmly convinced that I can shoot his G34 better than I can my own because of the better trigger. Perhaps I am not really good enough to improve my hit factor with a better trigger, or perhaps I am, opinions will vary, but if I think I can then the fact that I am using what I consider to be slightly inferior equipment will have a bearing on my mental game, on which everything is dependent. Getting this out of the way is worth some attention.

"If all I needed was a Vanek trigger for G17 to beat Mink and Sevigny, I would buy 3. There is no doubt in my mind that either of those guys can pick up my gun and hand me a decisive defeat."

Ferrell, I believe Milionis actually did buy three Vanek trigger jobs. He ended up somewhere between Sevigny and Mink at the 2004 Nat'ls. Obviously, he needed a whole lot more than just a Vanek trigger to do that, but my understanding is that both Milionis and Mink would agree that a really good trigger helps them to optimize their performance.

On your second point, I think mentally it is better to start cultivating some doubt about how decisively anyone can beat you. Even Sevigny. I doubt that Mink or Milionis take that view, despite the fact that they know just how good Sevigny is. My guess is that they are looking carefully at the aspects of the game where Sevigny has his edge and are diligently whittling away at them. I hope the top dogs are not mentally conceeding the production title to Sevigny because of his proven dominance. No one is going to beat Sevigny unless they believe it is feasible. It is encouraging to see CZ make an investment in Hobdell, Mink, Milionis and Sindelar in preparation for the upcoming World Shoot. It would appear that somebody believes that Sevigny can be overtaken. The rest of us should take a lesson from that attitude.

Having said all that . . . . That Sevigny guy is unreal! Lance

[Chriss Grube]

LwE,

Trust me we have a guy at our club that has the same problem you do. He thinks he is going to buy his way to a win. He's on the 5th or 6th gun now. He's still getting spanked. It is so bad that the guys are trying to talk him into whatever gun they want next because it will be cheaper buying it used after 1 match when he trades it in on Mon. You can be competitive without practice depending on natural talent up to a point. Then you just start finishing as high as you can. Trust me I haven't practiced in a couple years and still finish in the top 3 at most local matches. Here is the easiest and cheapest way to solve the problem and prove to yourself that it aint the gun... ask the guy to shoot his gun in the match. When you explain that you think it is the gun he'll laugh at you and probably go along. He'll still beat you and then once and for all you'll KNOW IT AINT THE GUN!

[sfinney]

I just want to point out that in the original post, LwE didn't say he thought he was being beat by a guy because that guy had a better trigger job... he merely observed that he has felt a better Vanek trigger than his own, and is wondering how to improve the trigger on his own gun, if possible.

I think he fully understands its not the equipment that is beating him..... but having said that, if you paid good money to get a trigger job done on your own gun, and your friend did as well but it was noticeably better, for the same price, , it's only natural to wonder how come yours isn't as nice, and how to improve it......

As I said above, if its minor feel differences, I'd just shoot it more, it'll break in. If its a major difference in trigger, contact Charlie Vanek and ask him to tune it up, explaining what you want in the trigger ... I bet he can adjust it to make it feel just like you want it.

[EricW]

If I have to practice more than him to beat him, I am not going to be able to keep up.

Well, there you go.

[Matt Cheely]

If you want a strictly gear type answer, I'd say polish it!! As long as you're not messing with any critical areas, I don't see how it could hurt.

[Paladin]

I hear the different perspectives: re: additional training vs. equipment but if a further trigger tune will boost confidence (if nothing else) then it will help..of course the question is when/where does it all end??????

[Heath]

There are really only a few options here:

The first option is to treat the trigger like it's some mysterious voodoo and hope it gets better with time. It may or may not, but you won't be able to predict the outcome, because it is mysterious voodoo and cannot be understood. The second option would be to take the trigger apart and study it, try to understand how it differs from stock and what a Vanek trigger job actually comprises. Once you understand it, polish it and try not to mess it up in the process. The last option is to take a more cavalier approach and polish the damn thing, after all, it's only a couple hundred bucks.

Good luck with your trigger.

[Carmoney]

Lance:

Excellent response. Your experience applies to many of us who happen to be balancing our shooting hobby with family duties and demanding occupations.

Mike

[Kevin Kline]

Amen Carmoney, thats the fight I've been dealing with for over 10 years.

[LwE]

Thanks to all for the comments. I have been reluctant to give up on this thread because there is no other resource like this forum to address this particular topic. There are a number of serious competitors here who have been using Vanek triggers for months or years. Few such people hang out at Glocktalk or any other forum I have found. I had hoped to tap into the kind of hard-won experience from serious shooters that is replete throughout the rest of this forum.

Thinking about it a little, I guess this thread has acheived exactly that and I just got a different technical answer than I expected. It seems that there is a very high level of satisfaction with Charlie Vanek's work, which is a great tribute to him, and no one feels the need to play around with it to improve upon it. Frankly, I didn't either until I tried my friend's trigger. Had I not done so I would be blissfully banging away now with complete satisfaction.

I still have the nagging feeling, or perhaps the wishful hope, that there is someone out there who has been down this particular road and might be persuaded to pitch in further on this topic somewhere down the line. If so, I will remain all ears. [eyes?] Lance

[alma]

I haven't done anything to my Vanek except putting 20,000 rounds down range with it. Mine is closer to 2lb but I refuse to mess with it. Matt tried my trigger when I first got it and then again after about a year. I didn't notice any difference but he said it was much better now.

If you are really unhappy with it send it back to Charlie and let him have another go at it.

He really stands behind his work. I keep him on speed dial and I have had many chats with him about trigger maintenance and shooting in general.

As far as what you can do on your own, I would not try to polish anything. A quick Dremel pass in the wrong place can ruin a great trigger bar. The best things to do are the things that Vanek already did to it.

One thing that is Vanek approved is that you can cut a few coils off of the striker spring. Rich Redovian did this and his Vanek pulls at 1lb. This is something that I would only do if I were loading with Federal primers.

I wish that I had practiced in the last two years but I have been so busy with being a fulltime student and working fulltime that I am lucky if I pickup my gun before match day. The only shooting that I have been doing is that I have been religiously attending three matches a month and an occasional .22 match. I figure that shooting a match is about the best practice you can get to be better at shooting matches. I have also been shooting my G34 in Production class almost exclusively for two years now. Every time I try shooting another gun with a race rig I just end up screwing everything up so I run home to my “happy place” that is Production division.

[Charlie Vanek]

Lance,

I've sent you an email, but evidently you have not received it. I would be glad to talk to you and we can talk about way's to get a lighter trigger if you want one. When I received your gun it was brand new and newer guns take awhile to break in. If the guy you are shooting against has an older Glock and a fitted barrel or a tighter frame fit that has factors. If your not properly lubing the connector and trigger bar that can cause gulling or a rough trigger pull. Some oils are worst than others and break down or evaporate quicker. I'm not making excuses, but when I sent the gun out it pulled at 1.8 oz. and was smooth. Also, I have had customers try to re-polish the trigger parts and in some cases it will increase the trigger pull as much as 4 oz. or more and can start doubling or going full auto... Please contact me.

Best Regards,

Charlie