Improving A Vanek

[fishnfst]

1.8 ounces is better than some of my rifle triggers...... JK:) had to give the man with the best glock triggers around a hard time....

[eric nielsen]

At Area 6 this weekend I tried triggers by glocksmiths who are proud of their work and they were *yuck* compared to my Vanek.

I also showed my Vanek-trigger G35 to several foreign shooters, some of whom bought or tried the D.R. Drop-In trigger. They dry-fired mine again and again, seemingly in shock. Amazed.

I use Chip McCormick lube and it breaks at 22oz with no hesitation - straight through. Slide Glide works pretty well too. Make sure you lube the drop-safety plunger and the tang on the trigger bar that works the drop-safety. Also lube the part of the slide that works the disconnector - it looks like a long speed-bump that goes out & then comes back in. That will improve your slide cycling and sight-tracking a whole bunch.

[LwE]

Alma, thanks for clearing up my confusion. I know you've been doing some excellent experimental trigger work and I jumped to the conclusion that you had applied your skills to your Vanek. By the way, a friendly word of caution, you keep it up with all that shooting and you'll burn yourself out in no time! Come on down and join me in the once-a-month club, it frees up a lot of time

Charlie has been very generous with his time and advice and has talked me down from attempting to screw up his work with ill-advised experimentation. I was experiencing some drag in the trigger press which I attributed to friction where the striker rides against the trigger bar (the sear?). I fixated on this as the cause because the trigger bar gets a high polish at this point in most of the DIY jobs I've seen or used. It is not necessary with Charlie's design, and he strenuously advises against trying to "improve it" yourself in any way.

I went over the gun carefully last night and discovered the problem. The right side of the trigger was bearing on the frame at the point where its bottom curve enters the frame as the trigger is pulled. The rubmark was plainly visible. Duh. I relieved the frame a touch to eliminate the contact and the drag on the press is gone. The drag has developed since the gun left Charlie's bench. This was a new one to Charlie and it reinforces his preference to work on Glocks which have been shot in a little, rather than brand new guns.

Charlie speaks highly of the light SlideGlide as a grease, and Mobile 15W-50 as an oil. I've replaced the name oils I had been using with the 15W50 and the trigger feels better in dry fire. I don't think it is as good as Alma's quite yet but I'll compare it again when we next cross paths. The plan now is to just keep shooting it as is until it is the equal of Alma's G34.

Eric, thanks for the tips. Lance

[alma]

I went over the gun carefully last night and discovered the problem.  The right side of the trigger was bearing on the frame at the point where its bottom curve enters the frame as the trigger is pulled.  The rubmark was plainly visible.  Duh.  I relieved the frame a touch to eliminate the contact and the drag on the press is gone.  The drag has developed since the gun left Charlie's bench.  This was a new one to Charlie and it reinforces his preference to work on Glocks which have been shot in a little, rather than brand new guns. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah I have seen this happen before when playing with glock triggers. That's just the type of thing that Dremels were inventer for. Hope it feels better now. I will just have to ban you from trying my gun again so you don't get anymore funny ideas.

Keep in mind that I have spent the last 2 1/2 years chasing you at the club matches. I don’t see any reason that you should not have that “M” card yet except that you have been so busy with work. I feel that my shooting took its biggest step forward when I went to Nationals with you in 2003 and you taught me how to game out a stage. I still feel that you have a lot more natural ability and that you know more about gaming out a stage than I do. I will be running for the hills as soon as you get the groove back. Just don’t analyze everything so much.

See you next weekend

[Bugs Bunny]

So what's the real scoop on his trigger?

Sounds like once yo engage the trigger with the finger, you're committed to pulling thru? Kinda wary as the set-up have now has just enough stacking so can take it to that point for longer distance & precision shots then move it slightly to break the shot. {Yes, it does take more time....}

The true "surprise break" does sound very desirable however. Are you guys telling me you can get a flash sight picture and just press it and if so, would seem as if you'd be able to get those shots from contorted kneeling around fat but light Poly Barrels when it's difficult to maintain a good sight pic & alingment, a la to old rifle shooters trick of pressing when the sights move/swing over the A Zone?

TIA,

Bugs

[LwE]

Alma, I'm going to bow out of this thread now that I've gotten my trigger issue resolved, but I didn't want to leave your comments hanging out there by themselves. It was apparent at the Nat'ls that you were going to be really good. I've never seen anyone so poised in their first really big match. Since you won the Area title last year you've been a buzzsaw, and it has been great having you around consistently shooting Production class since then. The funnest thing about this game is having really good competition stretching you at every match. This happens at all levels and some of my fondest shooting memories are of slogging it out week after week in B class in Virginia in the mid-90s. It's been like that here lately. Wish you weren't leaving, it won't be the same without you.

Bugs, for me the Vanek makes a big difference in speed up close, and in one-handed shooting. The finger doesn't hit the normal resistance point of a regular trigger so there is almost no sight twitch. I took it out today and was able to shoot Bill Drills at speeds I haven't seen since my 1911 days. Most noticeable was the consistency it introduced. I've never shot Bill drills with a Glock and kept all the splits so uniform. I had one run with five .18 splits. This is very good for me. I was very pleased. I'm sold.

Thanks to all who pitched in on this thread, Lance

[Kevin Kline]

I was wanting to try and drill another hole in the Glock trigger bar (where the tang hangs down below the cruciform sear plate or cross shape sear). That steel is hard as s&(%!!! Anybody have any idea what to use to get through it or how? Anybody done it successfully?

Thanks,

[Chris Rhines]

Kevin -

That steel is, indeed, hard as s&(%.

I've redrilled a few trigger bars. At first, I would draw the temper with a small propane torch and drill it with a regular old TiN drill.

Now I don't bother with the torch. I just clamp the trigger bar in my drill press vise and drill it with a solid carbide burr.

- Chris

[eric nielsen]

Kevin

You should use a Dremel carbide cutter. Not the ones with a ball on the end - those are too fat. They make one that fits the original hole, you might just bring the the T-bar into the store with you.

Drill it as low & close to the original hole as possible, use some kind of oil on the cutter, and cool off the part & cutter in water if they glow red [which they will].

If you cut the 2nd hole too high you might not get the trigger safety to engage when resetting forward from a fired shot.

Never got one to work as well as Charlie's, not for lack of trying either.

[Chris Rhines]

If you drill a new hole or bend the spring tab forward, you'll have to modify the trigger safety to get it to engage. Not hard to do - just shorten the part that contacts the frame with a file or sandpaper. Shorten it enough that it drops into the "on" position when the trigger is in the rest position.

- Chris

[eric nielsen]

Thank you Chris. Never thought of that.

[Kevin Kline]

Thanks Chris and Eric.

I'll head to Home Depot and see if I can get a carbide cutter for my dremel. Is it shaped like a regular drill bit. Chris, you know where to get the Titanium Nitride drill bits or will just Titanium bits do it?

If it doesnt work, I'll have to head to the gunsmiths and see if he can drill several of them for me in the press.

[eric nielsen]

Pretty sure it's a number 9904 cutter:

DREMEL

Can't link the exact page so go to Accessories, Rotary Bits, and then Carving/Engraving then scroll down to the 9900's near the bottom of the page.

#9903 looks like it would work too.

[Heath]

There are two types of drills that are commonly used for making holes in hardened steel. One would use either cobalt steel or carbide. Coatings simply increase the life of the drill. I buy all of my drills from Rutland Tool which is a machining supply house with good prices. They have both premium American-made tooling as well as cheaper imported stuff. I have found that even the cheaper imported HSS drills are still way better than anything that I've ever purchased from a hardware store like Home Depot including cobalt drills with fancy coatings. I've got a DeWalt drill index that I carry around with my cordless drill that had a bunch of coated drills that were simply crap. I replaced them all with cheap HSS drills for about $5 and I've yet to wear one out.

http://www.shoprutlandtool.com

If you go there, you'll probably want to get a cobalt steel, TiN coated drill bit in your size of choice which will probably run a couple of dollars. You could also use carbide, but a good drill press is required. If there's any sort of runout in the chuck then it will shatter a carbide drill.

[chp5]

There are two types of drills that are commonly used for making holes in hardened steel.  One would use either cobalt steel or carbide.  Coatings simply increase the life of the drill.  I buy all of my drills from Rutland Tool which is a machining supply house with good prices.  They have both premium American-made tooling as well as cheaper imported stuff.  I have found that even the cheaper imported HSS drills are still way better than anything that I've ever purchased from a hardware store like Home Depot including cobalt drills with fancy coatings.  I've got a DeWalt drill index that I carry around with my cordless drill that had a bunch of coated drills that were simply crap.  I replaced them all with cheap HSS drills for about $5 and I've yet to wear one out.

http://www.shoprutlandtool.com

If you go there, you'll probably want to get a cobalt steel, TiN coated drill bit in your size of choice which will probably run a couple of dollars.  You could also use carbide, but a good drill press is required.  If there's any sort of runout in the chuck then it will shatter a carbide drill.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Heath - what diameter for the Cobalt , Ti bit? Thanks.

[Flexmoney]

5/64 is about the current size hole. If you want to go a touch smaller then a 1/16 would work.

I have used the 9910 and 9903 Dremels bits to start...cutting a dimple where I want the hole to go.

[Kevin Kline]

Thanks Eric, Heath and Flex.

I'll get the bits from Home Depot or where ever tomorrow. Work has been killing me and I'm chomping at the bit (no pun intended) to try this.

Flex,

What type of drill bits did you use and what type of drill? Just regular drill and what bits or did you use the dremel?

Thanks,

[Flexmoney]

I've just bought whatever "metal" bits they had at the local HD.

To be honest, the drill bits don't last long.

The latest from HD, BLU-MOL (brand). They are Cobalt. Seem to be holding up better than others I've tried.

I usually put a piece of 2x4 into the vise to use as a backer, then drill with my handy dandy dewalt. Slow and careful...use some lube ( )

I often the dremel to make a starting dimple (actually, I center punch it first).

[Flexmoney]

BTW,

You get the same result from just installing a heavier "trigger rreturn spring" from Glockmeister.

[Heath]

I'll get the bits from Home Depot or where ever tomorrow. Work has been killing me and I'm chomping at the bit (no pun intended) to try this.

My point earlier was that all of the drills that I've ever purchased from Home Depot have been complete and utter crap compared to the lowest-end tooling from a real metalworking supply shop. I once had to drill something like 240 3/16" holes in a relatively thin piece of stainless. This was on a weekend, so I went to HD, spent some time looking at their entire selection and picked up a couple of the most expensive TiN coated, cobalt steel drills that I could find. They lasted for about 10 holes. The following week I drove over to Rutland Tool and picked up a handful of imported HSS drill bits. The first one I tried lasted for the entire duration, though it was spent by the time I was finished. I've had a number similar experiences that correlate with this one. If you get tooling from HD, it may work once, but definitely not more than that.

I prefer the idea of getting a heavier return spring. That's what I did. I speculate that the angle of the force of the spring in the stock holes is necessary for consistent and reliable operation.

[Flexmoney]

Heath,

I think you've made a good point on the bits. It's good to know that there are better bits out there they the standard fair from to local big box store.

I prefer the idea of getting a heavier return spring. That's what I did. I speculate that the angle of the force of the spring in the stock holes is necessary for consistent and reliable operation.

There are three quick and easy things that can be done at the back end of the Glocks..

- replace the striker spring with a reduced power striker spring

- drill the trigger bar to relocate the hole for the trigger spring

- use an extra power trigger spring

It has been my experience that you can do two of the above three things. When doing all three, the gun will often fail to reset.

The various combinations will also give a variety of different feels to the trigger.

YMMV