Three firsts today!

[CGoodwin]

1. First time shooting the SP-01 Tactical. What a gun! I have been shooting IDPA for three years and this gun makes me feel like a Master shooter! Smooth, stable, easily controlled. I love it so much I am talking to the CGW crew tomorrow about purchasing one from them.

2. First USPSA match. Not all that different at first glance from IDPA. I am sure other clubs are more dramatically different. Stage design was a little more free flowing, no prescribed course of fire as such, but it kind of felt natural to shoot as I have been in IDPA. Could be observational bias, I guess.

3. And the best for last - First time ever I shot three perfect stages with no points down! Including a long distance, one shot bulls eye on two of the stages. I think I finished the match with a total of 10 points down, including a non-threat hit when one of my bullets passed through a threat and hit it, should have watched my angles! My speed was pretty good as well, waiting on the results to see the percentages.

All in all, a fantastic day of shooting and after many years bouncing back and forth between Sigs and M&P's I have found my ideal weapon in the CZ 75 series!

[rowdyb]

Right on!

[Bunsen]

Congrats!

[Hi-Power Jack]

2 hours ago, CGoodwin said:

 First USPSA match. Not all that different at first glance from IDPA. I am sure other clubs are more dramatically different. Stage design was a little more free flowing, no prescribed course of fire as such, but it kind of felt natural to shoot as I have been in IDPA. Could be observational bias, I guess.

You can shoot a USPSA match just like a IDPA match, but you'd probably have better

results if you shot it differently - drop mags whenever e.g.

[CGoodwin]

Yes, you are right I am sure. Most of the guys in my squad were either very new, inexperienced shooters, or old IDPA shooters. The other squad seemed more on point. I will request to shoot with a more dynamic group next time!

A couple of the new shooters were downright scary. I was scoring and the SO's were really on their toes!

[MrTuna]

Nice job! Sounds like fun.


Sent from my bunker in the desert using Tapatalk

[M1A4ME]

Do you mean "scary" good, or just plain I wish I was somewhere else "scary?"

[CGoodwin]

Oh definitely the latter! We had one guy who was like a combination of the lovely ladies of Charlie's Angel's and Don Knotts from The Shakiest Gun in the West. While he never once muzzle swept anyone, we were all watching him closely. The MD had a few words with him as well. 

[ArrDave]

As a recent IDPA convert - it will take you a while to understand how you need to be moving around the stage and when it's not worth it to go for 2A's and just eat 2C's.   It's a process. 

[GrumpyOne]

8 minutes ago, ArrDave said:

As a recent IDPA convert - it will take you a while to understand how you need to be moving around the stage and when it's not worth it to go for 2A's and just eat 2C's.   It's a process. 

It's always worth it to get 2 A's...

[CGoodwin]

I definitely have some reading to do because I have no idea what 2A vs. 2C means!

[GrumpyOne]

USPSA is scored by zones on the target...A, B, C, & D....With A zone hits being worth more points than C zone hits...

[andrewtac]

23 hours ago, ArrDave said:

As a recent IDPA convert - it will take you a while to understand how you need to be moving around the stage and when it's not worth it to go for 2A's and just eat 2C's.   It's a process. 

Do the math and see where it works out.  Usually the longer the stage the more beneficial make up shots are; best to always take the time to make 2a from the start.  Hit factor is points scored divided by time.  For example if you have 12 shots and your time is 8 seconds all A's is a hit factor of 7.5.  If you had one C and 11 A's you're hf is 7.25.  If you took a makeup shot that required one second (now 60 points and 9 seconds) your hf is 6.6667.  In that case the make up was not worth it.  In order to break even in this case with a makeup you'd need to shoot the makeup in 0.27586 seconds.  So makeups are not always worth it, but can be.

Edited September 17, 2016 by andrewtac

[mikeinctown]

16 hours ago, andrewtac said:

Do the math and see where it works out.  Usually the longer the stage the more beneficial make up shots are; best to always take the time to make 2a from the start.  Hit factor is points scored divided by time.  For example if you have 12 shots and your time is 8 seconds all A's is a hit factor of 7.5.  If you had one C and 11 A's you're hf is 7.25.  If you took a makeup shot that required one second (now 60 points and 9 seconds) your hf is 6.6667.  In that case the make up was not worth it.  In order to break even in this case with a makeup you'd need to shoot the makeup in 0.27586 seconds.  So makeups are not always worth it, but can be.

Thank you for the super easy to understand explanation. I've never shot a match before but would watch the ones they would have on the various shooting programs. I was always trying to figure out how a guy could have a score of 119 and lose to another guy who had a score of 108 even though the guy with the 108 finished like 2 seconds sooner. My thinking was that the points should have been more a determining factor and couldn't understand how the guy with the most points lost.

 

Also stopped yesterday and watched a USPSA match and would have loved to have gotten in on the action. I really really need to get myself a holster, magazine pouches, and a few other essentials. Looks like so much fun.

[ArrDave]

19 hours ago, andrewtac said:

Do the math and see where it works out.  Usually the longer the stage the more beneficial make up shots are; best to always take the time to make 2a from the start.  Hit factor is points scored divided by time.  For example if you have 12 shots and your time is 8 seconds all A's is a hit factor of 7.5.  If you had one C and 11 A's you're hf is 7.25.  If you took a makeup shot that required one second (now 60 points and 9 seconds) your hf is 6.6667.  In that case the make up was not worth it.  In order to break even in this case with a makeup you'd need to shoot the makeup in 0.27586 seconds.  So makeups are not always worth it, but can be.

So if you can engage a target at 35 yards from the first shooting position and it eliminates a shooting position later on or cuts out a wide transition that would take away your ability to engage on the move from a down range position to the final one what do you do?   I came to this conclusion on a stage at the recent section match - the GM's shot this target from the first position because it picked them up time, some of the C/D'd it, but they all were 3-4 seconds on raw time for having conceded it.  One GM, went to pick it up as A's down range (it was still a 15+ yard shot down the bay from position 3 4 or 5 and forced a wide transition at any of those points), but he still was  2 seconds slower than a sandbagging M who at C/D's on it (as well as the other 2 GM's who shot it that way).  

 

There ARE scenarios when it's advantaged to eat 2 likely C's for time (several seconds).  It's generally not advisable, but it takes a lot of experience and knowing your own speed to be able to weigh that call.  

 

The stage I'm referencing was a 170 point field course at the GA state section  (Stage 1, 2 GM's engaged 5 targets at the first array, and 1 M that I could see video for, 1 GM (#6 on the stage) engaged the 5th target from the first array at the last shooting position on a wide transition.  Provided all skill is close together at that level one could suggest the 5 targets array 1 was a better plan than a 4 targets at array 1.  Obviously that's just 1 anecdote, but In my short career so far I've seen at least one stage every other match that taking longer lower probability alpha shots is advantaged over picking it up down range with higher probability alpha shots.  

Edited September 18, 2016 by ArrDave

[9x45]

On 9/11/2016 at 4:58 PM, CGoodwin said:

, including a non-threat hit when one of my bullets passed through a threat and hit it, should have watched my angles! 

Not in a USPSA match.....

 

9.1.5.1 If a bullet strikes wholly within the scoring area of a paper target, and continues on to strike the scoring area of another paper target, the hit on the subsequent paper target will not count for score or penalty, as the case may be.

 

to clarify

.... ."for scoring purposes we don't allow "pass through" bullets to score on other targets, or incur penalty points".

Troy McManus
Director, National Range Officers Institute

 

Edited September 18, 2016 by 9x45

[CGoodwin]

Well I obviously need to shoot with another club! The scoring was straight IDPA and this rule was not followed.

[CGoodwin]

BTW, great avatar, 9x45!

[9x45]

7 minutes ago, CGoodwin said:

Well I obviously need to shoot with another club! The scoring was straight IDPA and this rule was not followed.

Thanks, but if it was an IDPA match, then a shoot thru would count as a penalty per IDPA rules, however you said it was a USPSA match, which uses points earned minus penalties deducted divided by time for a Hit Factor value (where the stage winner takes all the points, even if they didn't earn 100% of the points). What club was this at? If it was advertised as a USPSA match, but the club is not listed on the USPSA website, then it's a club level "Outlaw" match. They can use any rules they want. What division did they score you in? 

[CGoodwin]

Alpha Mike Shooters: http://www.amshooters.org/

Definitely list themselves as USPSA and refer new shooters to the ISPSA site for the rulebook.

I signed up in Production on my score sheet. The score email though has everyone listed by IDPA classification with no division listed.

It was a shoot on 9/11 and had some different elements including picture targets and IDPA silhouettes with shirts and hoods covering them. Maybe it was different than usual. I'll check them out in October and see before making any decisions.

[andrewtac]

6 hours ago, ArrDave said:

So if you can engage a target at 35 yards from the first shooting position and it eliminates a shooting position later on or cuts out a wide transition that would take away your ability to engage on the move from a down range position to the final one what do you do?  

You can't outrun a bullet.  Over simplification, but it is a general rule of thumb I try to use.  Especially when I am proficient and can take longer shots.  I am not an expert and haven't been doing it long, so take it for what it is worth.  I will say if I were designing that stage and really wanted to separate the men from the boys put some no shoots on the long target.

[9x45]

CGood, Alpha Mike is a sanctioned USPSA club hosted by the Cedar Ridge Range, where they have several different venues. Sounds like what you shot was their "Sensible Self Defense Short Range Match" Their USPSA match is on the 3rd Sunday of every month. Most ranges do have different venues on every Saturday/Sunday, some are sanctioned organizations, and some are local club level activities. The scores are usually posted at the web site, or emailed, for local level matches. USPSA scores are on the Practiscore website. As you just missed the 3rd Sunday USPSA match, sign up on Practiscore next time for October. The match will show open about 1 week before the day of the event. DVC, but mostly C......

Or search the USPSA website for all the other USPSA clubs in Texas. Fortunately I have 4 USPSA clubs within 75 miles of where I live, not including IPDA/3 gun/Steel Challenge and local level matches. There is something to shoot on every Saturday and Sunday

https://www.uspsa.org/locate-uspsa-clubs-results.php

https://practiscore.com/clubs/alpha-mike-shooters-ipsc47

http://www.cedarridgerange.com/Schedules.html

Sensible Self Defense - Short Range Match

This club conducts a "short range- 10 yds or less"  handgun competition, using IDPA principles, on the 2nd Sunday of each month.  Essentially shooters will be challenged with making tactical choices while using conceal carry types of firearms.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 19, 2016 by 9x45

[9x45]

On second thought, maybe I'll move to Texas. Looks like you guys have over 40  sanctioned clubs....

 

[SCTaylor]

Come on out 9by, we'd love to have you. Lots of your stately kin moving here already!

[9x45]

1 hour ago, SCTaylor said:

Come on out 9by, we'd love to have you. Lots of your stately kin moving here already!

Thanks SC! I've shot PSC in Friendswood a couple of times, in fact, my wife's 2nd cousin is the club Prez, Tony Sansing.