How Often Do You Shoot Revolver?

[Alaskan454]

That's a good idea, I'll send him a note.

[Blueridge]

Maybe I am just too stubborn for my own good. I have remained with using a 6-stot revolver. I will however be adding single stack to my repertoire, and shooting the Memphis Charity Challenge for score with both in the coming months.

[Carmoney]

And there you have it, jsg. You have now heard directly from most of the vocal opposition to the 8-shot option.

This is the part of the conversation where I remind everyone that Revolver Division attracted a total of 17 shooters (including me) to Nationals the year before it moved to Barry. (Ask those guys who claim to care so much about Revo if they were even there that year....)

The division was dying. Unfortunately, 8-shot hasn't revived it. But at least some of us tried.

[Gregg K]

I was one of the faithful 17 in Vegas. Myself, Rob, Jerry and Phil were on one of the stages having a discussion about the sad state of the Revolver division and Rob and Jerry were pitching the idea of the 8 shot to Phil. I told them that what they were proposing would kill off the 625 and they all said that it wouldn't. I think that Phil may have believed it since he was deferring to the wisdom of Rob and Jerry but there is no way that Rob and Jerry really believed it, if I could see that it would be the death of the 625 they had to know it too. I told them that Revolver division looked to be dead any way and I had no better suggestion. It's kind of hard to bitch about someone's idea if you don't have a better one to offer up. Looking back I think that it would have been good to try the stand alone Nationals longer first before going to the 8 shot. The stand alone match allowed people to shoot revolver and not force them to choose between their open or limited gun and shooting a revolver. The stand alone match was probably what got the participation up. I didn't have that crystal ball back in Vegas to think of that idea. I think that Rob and Jerry wanting to shoot minor and working on Phil was one of the driving forces that got us to the 8 shot rule. We are here now and I don't see it changing so we need to play this hand out.

Edited July 17, 2016 by Gregg K

[toothguy]

Depending on where you live and what happens politically, the 8 shot revolver may become revived as a competitive option.

[BadShot]

I view the change to the 8-shot as more positive than negative. The switch to 8-shot brought me back after dropping out for a few years. Sure, I had to invest some money again, but that's just part of the game. Golfers buy new clubs, tennis players buy new racquets, it happens in every sport when something new comes along. I think it's time to move forward on this, if someone has better ideas on how to improve things I'm all ears.

Now if we could get them to add revolver to carry optics, I'd be a happy camper.

Skip

Edited July 17, 2016 by BadShot

[MWP]

I view the change to the 8-shot as more positive than negative. The switch to 8-shot brought me back after dropping out for a few years. Sure, I had to invest some money again, but that's just part of the game. Golfers buy new clubs, tennis players buy new racquets, it happens in every sport when something new comes along. I think it's time to move forward on this, if someone has better ideas on how to improve things I'm all ears.

Now if we could get them to add revolver to carry optics, I'd be a happy camper.

Skip

Send Foley an email, he reads them, and responds. The more people he hears from the better. If we want something, now is the time.

[BadShot]

MWP,

Thanks, you're right. I went over to USPSA and dropped him a note. I guess instead of complaining about, I should of been trying to help out and get it done

Skip

[alecmc]

I spoke to my area director briefly about allowing open revolvers in CO.don't know how far it went, but I'll ask again.

Only issue I see being aftermarket mods like apex hammers. I wonder how that would fly.

[Bosshoss]

And there you have it, jsg. You have now heard directly from most of the vocal opposition to the 8-shot option.

This is the part of the conversation where I remind everyone that Revolver Division attracted a total of 17 shooters (including me) to Nationals the year before it moved to Barry. (Ask those guys who claim to care so much about Revo if they were even there that year....)

The division was dying. Unfortunately, 8-shot hasn't revived it. But at least some of us tried.

Come on Mike most of us know the "infamous 17 revolver shooters" nationals was a slot match and they were a limited number of slots(not that they were all used). They wouldn't have allowed 50 or 75 Revolver shooters in that match with the auto shooters fighting over the available slots. Me personally I couldn't attend that Nationals for the same reason I never made the IRC. I can't afford a trip to the west coast for a match.

Remember the first stand alone Revolver Nationals in 2013 was under the old 6 shot rules and almost filled up with like 120 shooters. This had nothing to do with the 8 shot guns.

Part of that was because it was several SS shooters hanging around and shooting another Nationals and the no slot open to everyone rule. Part was the more Central location(IMO).

I hope Sams MCC draws a great crowd of Revolver shooters.

IMO the reason the attendance at the Nationals is dropping is a totally unrelated to the revolver shooters but is the match itself and has been discussed in different threads.

Our area has seen a uptick of Revolver shooters this last year and at a match yesterday I had 4 different shooters ask me the 929 vs 627 questions and asked about equipment needed. I believe they were not just curious but are planning on getting a Revolver(actually 1 had already purchased a 929 but he was already shooting a 627). Don't know if they will stick with Revolver but they have to try it to find out .

Yes I know of 6-8(in the tri-state region around me) revolver shooters that quit shooting revolver because of the rule change but we have had them replaced with new revolver shooters who probably wouldn't have tried it under the old 6 shot rules.

The rule isn't going to change back so let move on and try to grow the division and have fun with our revolvers.

On a side note.

Actually a bigger problem is the lack of Federal primers I get contacted by customers several times a week looking for primers. Some have switched to other divisions to save the Federals they have for upcoming majors.

Edited July 17, 2016 by Bosshoss

[Alaskan454]

I feel that Revolver is already a race division of sorts. To handle common aftermarket parts and holsters they could make it easy by using the current rules and adding optics only in a separate division, or as an amendment to CO. Or say the heck with it and add an open Revolver division like ICORE and Steel.

[BadShot]

I contacted Mike at USPSA this morning and have already heard back. Win or lose on this, it's good to see that they are willing to listen and respond. He said that the had pitched this to the board in January and again unofficially since then, but no go. The main problem was with the reciprocating slide. He did suggest contacting my AD about this, which I will do..

Skip

[Carmoney]

Back during the "slot match" days in Barry, Tulsa, and Vegas (all of which I attended), we peaked at around 40 wheelguns, then started a steady decline down to 17. It was never hard to get slots, and in fact I don't think anyone was ever turned away. 50 or 75 revolvers would have been no problem at all, if we had that many interested players.

Having Revo Nats in Barry as an adjunct to the SS Nats has been a mixed bag. It increased attendance due to the captive audience, but many feel that a one-day match doesn't feel like a real national event.

[Alaskan454]

I sent Mike a note today asking about the possibility of optics on a revolver. His biggest concern was dividing an already small division with any rule changes, but if that's what people want he seemed interested in hearing about it. He mentioned there was a brief conversation about having Open division at the Revolver Nationals, that would be an excellent way to gauge interest if they offered it next year.

[peterthefish]

I contacted Mike at USPSA this morning and have already heard back. Win or lose on this, it's good to see that they are willing to listen and respond. He said that the had pitched this to the board in January and again unofficially since then, but no go. The main problem was with the reciprocating slide. He did suggest contacting my AD about this, which I will do..

Skip

Reciprocating slide seems like a silly reason. The lack of a reciprocating slide on a revolver wouldn't give 8 shot revos any competitive advantage, although it does open up mounts to gaming I guess. Or just make Matebas legal in the division - I need an excuse to buy one.

I sent Mike a note today asking about the possibility of optics on a revolver. His biggest concern was dividing an already small division with any rule changes, but if that's what people want he seemed interested in hearing about it. He mentioned there was a brief conversation about having Open division at the Revolver Nationals, that would be an excellent way to gauge interest if they offered it next year.

This makes more sense, but it seems like an easy bridge to gap. Allow dots on revolvers as well subject to any weight limits. Everything else is the same re: revolver accommodations to production.

[seanc]

Back during the "slot match" days in Barry, Tulsa, and Vegas (all of which I attended), we peaked at around 40 wheelguns, then started a steady decline down to 17. It was never hard to get slots, and in fact I don't think anyone was ever turned away. 50 or 75 revolvers would have been no problem at all, if we had that many interested players.

Having Revo Nats in Barry as an adjunct to the SS Nats has been a mixed bag. It increased attendance due to the captive audience, but many feel that a one-day match doesn't feel like a real national event.

Barry has been declining every year right, it was full only the first time, then 113, then 106 and just 86 this year. Not filling 120 slots is bad enough, but just getting 86 is a precipitous drop.

Tying it to SS nationals clearly boosted attendance dramatically. There is no reason to believe unlocking it from SS is going to improve things, it just means SS nat's will get another day which will fill to capacity and revolver will be lumped into some other nationals and have very poor attendance based in prior history.

There is no good answer.

[GMM50]

Looking at this from another perspective.

If you shoot in a well designed ICORE match it's 5,6,7 and 8 shot neutral. Of course 5 shot revolvers have to reload more times than 8 shots but that can be minimized by course design.

And mostly you're only competing with revolvers with the same round capacity.

Much of the handicap 6 shot revolvers see (in USPSA) is cause the course is 8 shot neutral. ICORE regional matches draw 40+ revolver shooters. And there's the IRC. 100s of shooters.

Fitting revolvers into USPSA is perhaps the problem. I'm not advocating leaving in any way.

Just observations. If someone has Steel Challenge Revolver numbers that might shed more light. But then that's a different game.

Edited July 19, 2016 by GMM50

[seanc]

Looking at this from another perspective.

If you shoot in a well designed ICORE match it's 5,6,7 and 8 shot neutral. Of course 5 shot revolvers have to reload more times than 8 shots but that can be minimized by course design.

And mostly you're only competing with revolvers with the same round capacity.

Much of the handicap 6 shot revolvers see is cause the course is 8 shot neutral. ICORE regional matches draw 40+ revolver shooters. And there's the IRC. 100s of shooters.

Fitting revolvers into USPSA is perhaps the problem. I'm not advocating leaving in any way.

Just observations. If someone has Steel Challenge Revolver numbers that might shed more light. But then that's a different game.

You are not wrong.

I don't really have a dog in this fight, I have reconciled that I just prefer shooting red dots regardless of the game. I enjoy shooting revolvers, it is just unlikely I will shoot one at a USPSA match again unless I am shooting my ICORE open rig for practice.

[Alaskan454]

I don't really have a dog in this fight, I have reconciled that I just prefer shooting red dots regardless of the game.

I think that many feel the same way you do. Here are the current IRC registration stats for example:

Open: 38

Limited: 48

Limited 6: 24

Classic: 16

I'd be willing to bet that most Limited and Open shooters are running an 8 shot after the creation of Limited 6. So there isn't a real big difference between those who put a dot on top and the ones shooting iron sights. At our local Steel and ICORE shoots I see the same thing, there are usually about as many people in each division.

Edited July 19, 2016 by Alaskan454

[seanc]

I don't really have a dog in this fight, I have reconciled that I just prefer shooting red dots regardless of the game.

I think that many feel the same way you do. Here are the current IRC registration stats for example:

Open: 38

Limited: 48

Limited 6: 24

Classic: 16

I'd be willing to bet that most Limited and Open shooters are running an 8 shot after the creation of Limited 6. So there isn't a real big difference between those who put a dot on top and the ones shooting iron sights. At our local Steel and ICORE shoots I see the same thing, there are usually about as many people in each division.

I see this at the local icore match(yes,we have them). There has been a shift over last 2 years, more people are parking the iron sight guns and showing up with red dots.

[MWP]

I don't really have a dog in this fight, I have reconciled that I just prefer shooting red dots regardless of the game.

I think that many feel the same way you do. Here are the current IRC registration stats for example:

Open: 38

Limited: 48

Limited 6: 24

Classic: 16

I'd be willing to bet that most Limited and Open shooters are running an 8 shot after the creation of Limited 6. So there isn't a real big difference between those who put a dot on top and the ones shooting iron sights. At our local Steel and ICORE shoots I see the same thing, there are usually about as many people in each division.

I don't think I've seen anyone shoot open or limited with a six shot gun. Not saying it doesn't happen, but no one in limited or open went and bought an 8 shot with the creation of L6/ dropping 6 neutral stages.

There's no reason a dotted (not comped) revolver should be considered unfair to play in CO. Anyone can make the argument that it's an advantage that the dot doesn't move with the slide, but no one is complaining that if I were to shoot a revolver in production, the sights don't move. The simple fact is that the capacity advantage of prod/CO is way too obvious over revolver to ever make a difference what we use for sights. Let alone the faster reload and trigger options.

Edited July 19, 2016 by MWP

[GMM50]

If my math is correct 38+48+24+16=126 and the match is several months away and in a new location.

This match must have something going for it to get the big numbers.

It would be interesting to compare steel challenge numbers (# of revolver shooters).

I know it's apples and oranges.

[seanc]

I don't really have a dog in this fight, I have reconciled that I just prefer shooting red dots regardless of the game.

I think that many feel the same way you do. Here are the current IRC registration stats for example:

Open: 38

Limited: 48

Limited 6: 24

Classic: 16

I'd be willing to bet that most Limited and Open shooters are running an 8 shot after the creation of Limited 6. So there isn't a real big difference between those who put a dot on top and the ones shooting iron sights. At our local Steel and ICORE shoots I see the same thing, there are usually about as many people in each division.

I don't think I've seen anyone shoot open or limited with a six shot gun. Not saying it doesn't happen, but no one in limited or open went and bought an 8 shot with the creation of L6/ dropping 6 neutral stages.

There's no reason a dotted (not comped) revolver should be considered unfair to play in CO. Anyone can make the argument that it's an advantage that the dot doesn't move with the slide, but no one is complaining that if I were to shoot a revolver in production, the sights don't move. The simple fact is that the capacity advantage of prod/CO is way too obvious over revolver to ever make a difference what we use for sights. Let alone the faster reload and trigger options.

lol. Any "advantage" of the dot not "moving" is obliterated 10x over by reloads and reload speed.

[EEH]

November 2011 in Memphis charity challenge,was the last official match I shot in..

With exception to my own pin matches,,

[Alaskan454]

If my math is correct 38+48+24+16=126 and the match is several months away and in a new location.

This match must have something going for it to get the big numbers.

It would be interesting to compare steel challenge numbers (# of revolver shooters).

I know it's apples and oranges.

Here's a link to the current registered shooters: http://matchsignup.org/match/squadlist.php?matchid=748 and stats: http://matchsignup.org/match/match-stats.php?matchid=748

Two people haven't declared a division yet so that would be 128 signed up at the moment. This will be my first match outside of our home club so maybe there are more like myself heading to their first IRC.

As for steel, here's the 2015 WSSC numbers: http://steelchallenge.com/steel-challenge-display-match-results.php?action=match&indx=4420

ISR: 19

OSR: 15

OPN: 45

LTD: 35

PROD: 15

SS:12

Edited July 19, 2016 by Alaskan454