LoganbillJ Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 Wanting to start a discussion about a shotgun only match for 2017. Since Nordic has now become a 3-gun match we are looking to fill that void with a shotgun only match. We will still host the Missouri 3-Gun championship in the spring and are looking at the Fall for the shotgun match. Will be a 2 day match with the same format as our Spring 3-gun. As always this will be a match run by shooters for shooters so we are looking to you for your opinions.Topics of discussion:Scoring(Points or Total Time)Date(October/November)Divisions and rules(Will be outlaw)Anything else you guys can think of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan 45 Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 November is usually pretty open for matches. Scoring- stage points. It's an important test of shotgun wizardry to have a couple short stages, a few medium, and a few long. But if time plus is used, the short ones are meaningless. Divisions- Manual, Standard, Open. 8+1 at start for Manual and standard. (I prefer max capacity of 8+1, but not enough reasons to rock the boat.) Rules- Outlaw! Yeah! A few slugs, a few buck, lots of shot at varying distances, with some tight no shoots sprinkled here and there. No unloaded starts, lots of fun. For shotgun only and two full days, probably 12 stages or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximis228 Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 No unloaded starts, lots of fun. Its and all shotgun match, you MUST at least have 1 or 2 unloaded stages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sschultz Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 No unloaded starts, lots of fun. Its and all shotgun match, you MUST at least have 1 or 2 unloaded stages. No unloaded starts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan 45 Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 I thought so too. Until I shot the versamax match last November. The stages were long enough, and high enough round count that there was plenty of loading practice on the clock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 No unloaded starts, lots of fun. Its and all shotgun match, you MUST at least have 1 or 2 unloaded stages. No unloaded starts Agree, but there can be some good standards stages that start with only 2, 3, or 4 rounds in the gun and 6-10 rounds per string, 2 or 3 strings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrswanson1 Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 (edited) At the second annual Langhorne Zombie Shoot, we had one shotgun only stage. The RO would load your shotgun for you. The catch was he randomly loaded spent shells in the mix and decided how many shells to put in. It wasn't bad for the pump guys, but it gave the semi-auto shooters fits. Edited June 10, 2016 by jrswanson1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TB949 Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 I am in. As far as stage design I have never shot a all shotgun match. Since I got a good 3gun shotgun everything close to me has been cancelled or switched to a multigun match. It will be nice to have one at a decent driving distance. Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatriotMRD Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 Color me intrigued (whatever that color is). My shoulder is saying "WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU?" Must have Open Division (optics, speed-loaders/mags). I've seen a few tube fed only, no optics matches/side matches. 3 divisions? Open (optics, mags/speed-loaders) Tactical/Limited (autoloader, tube-fed, no speed-loaders, no optics) Pump-action/Heavy Metal (tube-fed, no speed-loaders, no optics. 12ga only?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sargenv Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 (edited) We have an all shotgun state level match every year (5th annual coming up this Sept).. We used to offer Open, Limited, Manual, Field, and Cowboy.. I could never get more than 1 or two cowboys so this year I ditched that div.. The field Div is nice for people who don't have a lot of gear.. the usual things like dump pouches, one side saddle of 6 rds or less, and a shell belt are the legal means for reloading.. The div is based on a Mossberg 500's 5+1 capacity with the mag block removed.. Remington 870's, 1100's, auto-5's and 11-87's were common.. they were basically field guns with no plug.. Manual is what it sounds like.. pump gun, min 20 ga.. long tube and loaded same as in Limited.. Limited is well, long tube, load 2/4, 4, 6, or 8 pack caddies... and no comps/box magazines/bipods Open is... well.. open.. speed sticks or mags... comps, optics, ports, whatever.. It's nice to hear other people in other parts of the country are offering something like that.. My match is the 2nd weekend in September.. After the Dove season opener and a month before the duck season opener.. (I'm a duck hunter mostly, and why Oct/Nov wouldn't work for me). Might want to consider the field division to attract a few more people.. most shooters out here shoot in Limited. Edited June 14, 2016 by sargenv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EaZeNuTZ33 Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 Divisions: Open, Semi, Pump Stages: -Start all guns hot on the clock and loaded to division capacity if they are starting in hand. -Start guns cruiser ready if picking the gun up out of a container or box. -Start guns empty or partially loaded......never. <----I quad load quickly and shoot an A5, still isn't as fun as just shooting and loading as you move! -No 6-8rd stages, bigger stages with more targets. 6rd stages are kinda boring, loading at least 3-4 rds is plenty some times. -Use walls, barrels, no-shoots (don't go full Loganbill tho), fault lines, props, and so on. -Have an all steel buckshot stage...because it's awesome pounding steel off of stands! -Have an all slug stage...big steel poppers and knockdowns are FUN to shoot, paper is kinda "meh"! -Limit non-falling steel as much as possible. -3-Gun style scoring on paper targets for buckshot (1-A, 2-anywhere) and slugs (1 anywhere). -Use relatively normal positions like prone, seated, squatting,.....no handstand while shooting the gun sideways thru a port...aka "Full Loganbill" -Limit stages and shooting where you can just stand in a box and shoot....movement is more fun. -2 sets of eyes for any flying/flipped clays. -No DQ/180 traps....have targets disappear after you pass them. -Stage guns are awesome.......as long as they are not for score and not on the clock. Scoring: -Don't care.....but there will be a detractor against each style.....equal stage points, target weighted stage points, and total time. Timeline: -October gets full for many, but November usually isn't too bad of a timeline compared to other matches, the weather is typically very mild, but the days are shorter....so 12-14 stages max during that time of year, if over two days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt in TN Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 November is usually pretty open for matches. Scoring- stage points. It's an important test of shotgun wizardry to have a couple short stages, a few medium, and a few long. But if time plus is used, the short ones are meaningless. Divisions- Manual, Standard, Open. 8+1 at start for Manual and standard. (I prefer max capacity of 8+1, but not enough reasons to rock the boat.) Rules- Outlaw! Yeah! A few slugs, a few buck, lots of shot at varying distances, with some tight no shoots sprinkled here and there. No unloaded starts, lots of fun. For shotgun only and two full days, probably 12 stages or so. This sounds a lot like the IPSC rules at the Benelli Championship. It took a lot of flak and I was doubtful, but I really enjoyed the variety of stages and rulesets. The slug scoring ate my lunch, but I really enjoyed it. The no shoots were a new thing for me, but I never did hit one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan 45 Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 Matt- I don't have any problems with IPSC scoring, but there are some thing that are almost universally unloved with IPSC rules here in the US- Ratio of short, med, long stages- Doesn't allow for enough long, requires too many short. No mixed loading on stages. With IPSC, if there is buck on a stage, there is nothing but buck. If slugs, nothing other than slug targets. And then there is the silly "field carry" start position, or whatever it's called. My preference for starts is either the shotgun leaning up against something, or at low ready- ready to rock and roll. I do like the concept of "Modified" division, but I don't think there is any demand for it here in the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 Short courses can still be used in time plus and be relevant... Just make them with a few strings. I could see a really cool speed shoot with say 7 clays at 5 yards, 7 Buck plates at 20 and 6 slug plate rack at 60, just three strings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmiller Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 This sounds very cool! Hope it happens! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wblevins48 Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 Here is my video of an all shotgun match that Jeremy Moore of Shooters Source organized in Texas this past spring. I liked the stages and layout a lot. Scoring was stage points. Divisions were Semi, Open, Pump. I like stages where you walk through the woods with 30+ targets. Cool/different stages at this match- Stage 3 (the tunnel), Stage 4 (hoser slugs, reload from barrels only), Stage 6 (big buckshot only stage), Stage 7 (stair-step slugs), Stage 8 (inside a car). If something like this appeared elsewhere, I would attend no doubt (within a days drive). A "field/hunter" division would be interesting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toothandnail Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 (edited) How bad would it hurt turn-out, if it was, very small - to no prize table and CASH payout for a certain percentage of the class? Seems the companies donating to prize tables are sure dwindling. Edited June 15, 2016 by toothandnail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EaZeNuTZ33 Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 The shotgun matches I've attended always had smaller prize tables, I doubt it would change much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatriotMRD Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 I don't care much about the prize table if it's a well run match with great stages. I'll drive 18-20 hours for a good match even with no hope of a turn at the prizes. It better be more than 1 day of shooting for that long of a drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toothandnail Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 I don't care much about the prize table if it's a well run match with great stages. I'll drive 18-20 hours for a good match even with no hope of a turn at the prizes. It better be more than 1 day of shooting for that long of a drive. It would be/ will be a 2 day, 10 stage match at minimum, follow in the same tradition as our major 3 gun match in the spring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 How bad would it hurt turn-out, if it was, very small - to no prize table and CASH payout for a certain percentage of the class? Seems the companies donating to prize tables are sure dwindling. A great match experience, no prize table, no cash payout, but really cool awards, a dinner and, if you get a title sponsor, some SWAG and shooter bag would be fine with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatriotMRD Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 I don't care much about the prize table if it's a well run match with great stages. I'll drive 18-20 hours for a good match even with no hope of a turn at the prizes. It better be more than 1 day of shooting for that long of a drive.It would be/ will be a 2 day, 10 stage match at minimum, follow in the same tradition as our major 3 gun match in the spring. Sorry, I should have re-read the first post. I'll keep watching for more info and put it on the shortlist for possible 2017 matches. I only have enough vacation time and money for 1 away match a year. Right now the 2017 shortlist consists of Blue Ridge 3 Gun, Fort Benning 3-Gun and possibly this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chargerarms Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 Divisions: Open, Semi, Pump Stages: -Use walls, barrels, no-shoots (don't go full Loganbill tho), fault lines, props, and so on. -Use relatively normal positions like prone, seated, squatting,.....no handstand while shooting the gun sideways thru a port...aka "Full Loganbill" Yeah, make it fat / old friendly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toothandnail Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 -Use relatively normal positions like prone, seated, squatting,.....no handstand while shooting the gun sideways thru a port...aka "Full Loganbill" Let the record show , YOU suggested that stage back in the late summer/Fall of 2015. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EaZeNuTZ33 Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 I'm not too big to admit that mistake! I did come closer to smoking that rabbit on he range than the actual target though! Luckily I got it nailed down before the big match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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