NervousEnergy Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 I'm looking to pick up a quality AR for 2 gun (and eventually 3 gun) comps, and I don't have the tools to assemble one or the expertise to pick out individual components. A complete rifle is a simpler decision and is still driving me nuts. I've shot USPSA and IDPA for a couple of months and am loving it. Got to try a club members JP SCR-11 in an informal 2-gun 'run and gun' afternoon and realized it was even more fun than straight pistol. I've got a good budget for a rifle, but it's not rich enough for a JP plus glass plus a couple cases of ammo. I can afford $1600 or so for the gun itself but can't go much more than that. All three rifles above hit that price point, with the exception of the FN, and I can get it for right at $1800. They all seem very, very similar, but the FN doesn't have an adjustable gas system and has no current reviews that I can find. The Colt and M-15 are heavily (and very positively) reviewed. I've personally handled (but not shot) both the FN and the Colt. I'd love to see a complete review of the FN to see exactly why they want $200-$400 more for it than the other two. I know the common consensus is typically to build a rifle with this kind of budget, but I'd much rather start with one already set up for flat shooting and rapid follow-up. The differences are likely small enough to make it a toss-up, but if anyone here has some wisdom to throw my way I'd be grateful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ming the Merciless Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 I have a CRP-18. It's a good rifle right out of the box, I put a Vortex Razor 1x6 JM-1 scope with a Warne RAMP mount and shot it box stock for a year with good results, but I ended up changing a lot of stuff last year I added the JP LMOS bolt carrier, JP Captive Spring, put a Hiper Touch 24C trigger, changed the carbine butt stock to a Luth and then an ACE and back, etc... The rifle has always been very, very accurate, but it only likes 69gr bullets, I haven't found a 77 grain or 55 grain load it likes past 150 yards. The adjustable gas block works well, but once it found the sweet spot it hasn't been touched for over a year. It has a very effective muzzle brake. The Samson EVO handguard is nice and it's easy to put accessories on like lights, sling mounts, bipod studs, etc... The upper to lower fit is very good with zero slop even after two years of use. I don't have one, but I've shot the M15 (13.5 & 18) and like them a lot, but at this point, I would be doing most of the same modifications to it like the JP LMOS & Captive Spring. The Timney trigger is better than the trigger that comes in the CRP-18, but I would probably change to the Hiper Touch anyway. The keymod handguard is not as easy to add accessories as the CRP-18 and since keymod is the new tactical hotness, accessories mounts are more expensive, a Daniel Defense bipod mount is $40 vs a $2 screw-in stud for the Samson handguard. Impact Weapons has a bipod mount that looks interesting for $12, but you have to remove the handguard to install. The M15 muzzle brake is very good, but it is OBNOXIOUS, even to the shooter. The M15's I shot also had the Raptor ambi charging handles, but I'm only 50/50 on whether they are better than the large single sided one on the CRP-18 and they also had ambi-safeties which I do like better. The upper to lower fit on the 13.5 was very good, but the 18 was pretty sloppy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moltke Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 The CRP-18-Pro, Armalite and JP guns are going to have what most 3 gunners are looking for out of the box (compensator, adj gas block, nice trigger, FF rail, etc) that the FN doesn't but you can do well with all of them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NervousEnergy Posted March 2, 2016 Author Share Posted March 2, 2016 (edited) It sounds like the CRP-18 Pro might be the overall better-built rifle out of the box. I might yet see if my budget will allow just going straight for a JP-15, but it will probably crimp my glass and ammo budget too much. Still curious about the FN. Might go back to the LGS and get them to pull the bolt out for me... the retail on that gun is $2250 which seems high, though street pricing is $1900 (was offered $1.8 on it if I bought glass there for it). It comes with the Timney trigger and NiB coated bolt and carrier, and it also uses a machined upper and lower from billet as opposed to the cheaper forgings, but that seems a strange thing to spend all that money on instead of a low-mass system and adjustable gas. If it was marketed as an incredibly tough duty rifle it'd make more sense. Unless I'm missing something (and I probably am), it looks like a JP CTR with a full-mass operating system and non-adjustable gas, which makes it a weird duck indeed. In person it's an absolutely beautiful machine in terms of fit, finish, and feel, but I'm perplexed at the design choices. Not a fan of the blue anodizing, though I understand that's a long-standing FN mark for comp gear. Thanks for the input. Edited March 2, 2016 by NervousEnergy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moltke Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 They're all great guns it's hard to go wrong with any of them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JordanGriffith Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 Honestly, I think you're better off building one, even if you have a local gunsmith build it, you'll get a lot better setup. I just built my new competition rifle and I know I'm well under what those rifles sell for, and I'd be willing to be my parts are better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akkid17 Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 FN is just super proud of their stuff. It's probably not actually going to be a better rifle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1time Posted April 1, 2016 Share Posted April 1, 2016 My first recommendation is to buy the JP15. You will thank me later. If you really can't stretch the budget, buy a JP15 upper and throw it in a complete lower. As you have money, upgrade the trigger and stock. The JP15 as I would configure it is $2059. If you are military or LE you can trim that down further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topher3134 Posted April 1, 2016 Share Posted April 1, 2016 If you are talking the blue fn competition, I have 2 buddies that run them and they are smooth and fast cycling guns. I have a rhino arms, POF, and 2 custom builds. The fn works just as well. I do like the JP stuff. Most of my guns have JP bcg and captured springs. I also have the jp roller trigger. So I can only imagine their complete gun is even better that their parts. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug H. Posted April 1, 2016 Share Posted April 1, 2016 Just suck it up and do the JP-15, you won't regret it and you won't have to do a bunch of mods. Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polymerfeelsweirdman Posted April 1, 2016 Share Posted April 1, 2016 Building is not hard at all and if you don't want to get a vice then you can just buy an upper and build your own lower. That is what I would probably do because I'm picky and it would be cheaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JordanGriffith Posted April 1, 2016 Share Posted April 1, 2016 A vise is like $28 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RolexJohn Posted April 4, 2016 Share Posted April 4, 2016 My first recommendation is to buy the JP15. You will thank me later. If you really can't stretch the budget, buy a JP15 upper and throw it in a complete lower. As you have money, upgrade the trigger and stock. The JP15 as I would configure it is $2059. If you are military or LE you can trim that down further. If JP would offer their discount to Certified NRA Instructors (as most manufacturers do) then I definitely would have gone with JP. But I ended up going with my 2nd choice, which is the Colt Competition CRP-18. They've made some nice changes in the 2016 model: I'm really excited to get it (order placed, should be about 30 days). I'm sure eventually I'll change a few things on it, but it should provide a great place to start, and a nice upgrade from the Colt 6940P I'm currently using. It seems like the do-it-yourself crowd just can't fathom why others don't build. There's many legitimate reasons as to why not to build (not the least of which being time) so why waste digital ink trying to convince someone to build? I don't get that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akkid17 Posted April 4, 2016 Share Posted April 4, 2016 Because it's cheaper and you get a better overall rifle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akkid17 Posted April 4, 2016 Share Posted April 4, 2016 But the buy off the rack guys/gals don't understand until they spend double the money to get their gear set up properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JordanGriffith Posted April 4, 2016 Share Posted April 4, 2016 I built my rifle for well under $1500 and I'd guarantee its better than the colt or fn rack guns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1time Posted April 4, 2016 Share Posted April 4, 2016 (edited) My first recommendation is to buy the JP15. You will thank me later. If you really can't stretch the budget, buy a JP15 upper and throw it in a complete lower. As you have money, upgrade the trigger and stock. The JP15 as I would configure it is $2059. If you are military or LE you can trim that down further. If JP would offer their discount to Certified NRA Instructors (as most manufacturers do) then I definitely would have gone with JP. But I ended up going with my 2nd choice, which is the Colt Competition CRP-18. They've made some nice changes in the 2016 model: I'm really excited to get it (order placed, should be about 30 days). I'm sure eventually I'll change a few things on it, but it should provide a great place to start, and a nice upgrade from the Colt 6940P I'm currently using. It seems like the do-it-yourself crowd just can't fathom why others don't build. There's many legitimate reasons as to why not to build (not the least of which being time) so why waste digital ink trying to convince someone to build? I don't get that. I've never played with the colt but I'm sure that you'll like it. Enjoy. Edited April 4, 2016 by 1time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RolexJohn Posted April 4, 2016 Share Posted April 4, 2016 Because it's cheaper and you get a better overall rifle But the buy off the rack guys/gals don't understand until they spend double the money to get their gear set up properly. But try and grasp the concept that not everyone has the time, patience, or mechanical aptitude to build an AR. Some of us will gladly take a debatable incrementally lesser rifle for more money. If you have time, patience, or mechanical aptitude, good on you. Some of us struggle just to find time enough to shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moltke Posted April 4, 2016 Share Posted April 4, 2016 I don't think an Armalite, Colt, or JP is going to lose an ounce of competitive advantage to anyone's custom built rifle when shooting 3 Gun. You may have a few personal preferences about a custom built gun that you like more such as ergonomics or aesthetics, but I doubt that's going to win you a match over another competitors very similar ~MOA shooting, lightweight, almost no recoil, race rifle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrswanson1 Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 Because it's cheaper and you get a better overall rifle But the buy off the rack guys/gals don't understand until they spend double the money to get their gear set up properly. But try and grasp the concept that not everyone has the time, patience, or mechanical aptitude to build an AR. Some of us will gladly take a debatable incrementally lesser rifle for more money. If you have time, patience, or mechanical aptitude, good on you. Some of us struggle just to find time enough to shoot. My gun smith charges $50 to put an upper together. I get the parts, he builds it to spec. I'm still money ahead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NervousEnergy Posted April 5, 2016 Author Share Posted April 5, 2016 My first recommendation is to buy the JP15. You will thank me later. If you really can't stretch the budget, buy a JP15 upper and throw it in a complete lower. As you have money, upgrade the trigger and stock. The JP15 as I would configure it is $2059. If you are military or LE you can trim that down further. Just suck it up and do the JP-15, you won't regret it and you won't have to do a bunch of mods. Doug This wound up being wisdom. Just sucked it up and spent the cash for a JP-15, 18", LMOS, and TD. Added an MRO, and while it broke the budget a bit, it's hard to wipe the smile for at least several hours after shooting it. Even cleaning it doesn't make the smile go away. After running a bunch of range and gallery trips, plus one indoor carbine comp, about the only thing I'd think of changing would be going to a lower with an ambi mag eject. As a left-hand shooter I just haven't yet worked out a non-awkward method. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RolexJohn Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 Because it's cheaper and you get a better overall rifle But the buy off the rack guys/gals don't understand until they spend double the money to get their gear set up properly. But try and grasp the concept that not everyone has the time, patience, or mechanical aptitude to build an AR. Some of us will gladly take a debatable incrementally lesser rifle for more money. If you have time, patience, or mechanical aptitude, good on you. Some of us struggle just to find time enough to shoot. My gun smith charges $50 to put an upper together. I get the parts, he builds it to spec. I'm still money ahead. Congratulations. Again a good and trusted gunsmith the charges below market rates is not a resource that everyone has in their hip pocket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JordanGriffith Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 You can watch a YouTube. Idea and put one together in less than an hour. It's really not as hard as you think. I thought the same thing when I bought my first AR. After I changed everything I didn't like I could've almost bought a JP. I have 4 kids and I still found time to build my last one and my 3 year old helped me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonytheTiger Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 My 10 year old assembled his own rifle. It took him about an hour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clay1 Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 My first recommendation is to buy the JP15. You will thank me later. If you really can't stretch the budget, buy a JP15 upper and throw it in a complete lower. As you have money, upgrade the trigger and stock. The JP15 as I would configure it is $2059. If you are military or LE you can trim that down further. If JP would offer their discount to Certified NRA Instructors (as most manufacturers do) then I definitely would have gone with JP. But I ended up going with my 2nd choice, which is the Colt Competition CRP-18. They've made some nice changes in the 2016 model: I'm really excited to get it (order placed, should be about 30 days). I'm sure eventually I'll change a few things on it, but it should provide a great place to start, and a nice upgrade from the Colt 6940P I'm currently using. It seems like the do-it-yourself crowd just can't fathom why others don't build. There's many legitimate reasons as to why not to build (not the least of which being time) so why waste digital ink trying to convince someone to build? I don't get that. John, thanks for the thoughts about the competition guns. I looked at Colt Competition's website and I don't see anything on their site talking about the new Gen 2 rifle. I did send them an email and asked about the rifle. I tried to find a YouTube video on the Gen 2 and there was nothing that I found. Very little information available on that rifle. Tell me more about that rail system. It looks like it is a modular rail. Are the mounting sections proprietary? It's not M-Lok, nor KeyMod. Love that the rifle comes standard with a G SSA-E for a trigger. Official thank you for all of your help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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