Carry optics with iron sight?

[alma]

I had a discussion with another shooter that made an interesting point. The requirement for an optic makes sense in the short term to help determine actual interest in the division as envisioned, requiring the optic removed those just entering the division to get classified or earn a ribbon. Once the division is finalized and no longer provisional it would make sense to eliminate that requirement as there would no longer be the need to collect that type of data

+1

I say keep it. We actually want people shooting CO to have CO guns versus showing up at a major match and deciding that there is too much heat in Production, so let's just shoot in CO; similar to what happens with Limited and L10.

[bmiller]

You do realize Brian that the prior DNROI ruled that a WML was not a light if the batteries were removed. The slippery slope got created when common sense got tossed aside.

I did not realize that Mark. I guess it is true, common sense isn't that common.

[Sarge]

I had a discussion with another shooter that made an interesting point. The requirement for an optic makes sense in the short term to help determine actual interest in the division as envisioned, requiring the optic removed those just entering the division to get classified or earn a ribbon. Once the division is finalized and no longer provisional it would make sense to eliminate that requirement as there would no longer be the need to collect that type of data

Sounds like a conversation I would be in. This is exactly how I would implement it

[Gary Stevens]

It would be great to know of we could add external weight now.

You must be able to point to a specific rule that allows you to add external weights, not the absence of a rule prohibiting it.

[bikerburgess]

I had a discussion with another shooter that made an interesting point. The requirement for an optic makes sense in the short term to help determine actual interest in the division as envisioned, requiring the optic removed those just entering the division to get classified or earn a ribbon. Once the division is finalized and no longer provisional it would make sense to eliminate that requirement as there would no longer be the need to collect that type of data

+1

I say keep it. We actually want people shooting CO to have CO guns versus showing up at a major match and deciding that there is too much heat in Production, so let's just shoot in CO; similar to what happens with Limited and L10.

The requirement doesn't make sense in a regular division, "IF" the optic is an advantage then it will be a de facto requirement just like it is now in open (you can shoot anything in open but dots comps and big mags are pretty universal)

Your argument would be like telling a L10 shooter they must shoot limited because their mags can hold more rounds. We have always restricted divisions by limiting performance enhancements not by mandating then

Edited January 31, 2016 by bikerburgess

[Sarge]

One way to make shooters truly use the optic is to not allow iron sights. This makes it like open. If your dot goes out you're screwed

[alma]

Your argument would be like telling a L10 shooter they must shoot limited because their mags can hold more rounds.

I like that suggestion. Edited January 31, 2016 by alma

[zhunter]

I had a discussion with another shooter that made an interesting point. The requirement for an optic makes sense in the short term to help determine actual interest in the division as envisioned, requiring the optic removed those just entering the division to get classified or earn a ribbon. Once the division is finalized and no longer provisional it would make sense to eliminate that requirement as there would no longer be the need to collect that type of data

I would think this might have been the BoD's thinking, but who knows

I had a discussion with another shooter that made an interesting point. The requirement for an optic makes sense in the short term to help determine actual interest in the division as envisioned, requiring the optic removed those just entering the division to get classified or earn a ribbon. Once the division is finalized and no longer provisional it would make sense to eliminate that requirement as there would no longer be the need to collect that type of data

+1

I say keep it. We actually want people shooting CO to have CO guns versus showing up at a major match and deciding that there is too much heat in Production, so let's just shoot in CO; similar to what happens with Limited and L10.

The requirement doesn't make sense in a regular division, "IF" the optic is an advantage then it will be a de facto requirement just like it is now in open (you can shoot anything in open but dots comps and big mags are pretty universal)

For about the 200th time, CO is not Open. I think once things get established, I don't think iron sights can beat a dot..... But Eric did beat Standard shooting Production in Frostproof

[cnote]

I believe a guy like Max ( who regularly can find the dot ) will shoot CO better than production, given the same match with the same stages.

Opposite for a guy like Ben. This years production nationals will tell the tale. I would imagine most sponsored shooters for the major players will stay the extra day and shoot both divisions. Then people will say they "shot it faster on Sunday because it was their 2nd run at stages!"

Ray Hirst will let the story unfold,

[zhunter]

I believe a guy like Max ( who regularly can find the dot ) will shoot CO better than production, given the same match with the same stages.

Opposite for a guy like Ben. This years production nationals will tell the tale. I would imagine most sponsored shooters for the major players will stay the extra day and shoot both divisions. Then people will say they "shot it faster on Sunday because it was their 2nd run at stages!"

Ray Hirst will let the story unfold,

I suspect the stages will be different. Obviously the walls will be the same, but shots I suspect and hope will be different

[cnote]

Ray's matches are challenging and technical right from the start, partials, no shoots, both at distance with those dreaded split poppers PASA is famous for. My guess is not much different, just like SS/ Rev nationals, now that 8 shot revolver is in the game.

Edited January 31, 2016 by cnote

[pskys2]

I had a discussion with another shooter that made an interesting point. The requirement for an optic makes sense in the short term to help determine actual interest in the division as envisioned, requiring the optic removed those just entering the division to get classified or earn a ribbon. Once the division is finalized and no longer provisional it would make sense to eliminate that requirement as there would no longer be the need to collect that type of data

+1

I say keep it. We actually want people shooting CO to have CO guns versus showing up at a major match and deciding that there is too much heat in Production, so let's just shoot in CO; similar to what happens with Limited and L10.

The requirement doesn't make sense in a regular division, "IF" the optic is an advantage then it will be a de facto requirement just like it is now in open (you can shoot anything in open but dots comps and big mags are pretty universal)

Your argument would be like telling a L10 shooter they must shoot limited because their mags can hold more rounds. We have always restricted divisions by limiting performance enhancements not by mandating then

A more valid comparison would be to tell a L10 competitor he CAN'T compete because he has 9 round 40 caliber magazines, or 8 rd 45's. Or maybe they can't shoot Limited because they only have 10 round or less magazines.

I think the communications are lacking here though. I hope it is just a case of trying to gauge the True interest in slide mounted optics on production type firearms in a provisional division. Surely this issue would dissolve if it becomes an official Division.

I would recommend to our new USPSA President and the BOD that they include appropriate explanations as an appendix on issues such as this that deviate from normal rules.