STI GM - 9mm Major advice

[Absocold]

Just got an STI Grandmaster 9mm with the T1 comp and looking for major loads.

I have Silhouette, W231, WST, HS-6, Titegroup, International (not Clays), WAC and E3 powder on hand. Probably going to use HS-6 or WAC, not sure which is better and/or cleaner.

Would prefer to use a coated bullet as quality jacketed bullets are too expensive. Leaning towards Bayou Bullets but not sure if I want 115 or 124 grain. Also not sure whether to use their RN or TC.

My goals line up like so: accuracy comes first, flatness next, then cleanliness, softness last. Would prefer a load that isn't compressed or is only very slightly compressed.

So here we go. HS-6 or WAC? 115 or 124? RN or TC? Experience with any of these combo's? Advice? Opinions? Load data? Poke in the nose?

Replies ready? Standby...

*beep*

[Slostang]

I can't offer much advice since I'm just starting with 9maj myself, but I can say at these high velocities you'll probably lead up the barrel / comp fairly quickly shooting cast. Even with the coating.

[Racinready300ex]

I would probably try WAC 1st. I've never used it, but its supposed to be pretty good. I liked running hs6 in my 9 major but it was pretty dirty.

I'm a fan of blue bullets in 125's although I may try some 115's this winter.

[Hi-Power Jack]

You should start out with WAC (c.6.7 - 7.3 grains) and a 124 grain fully jacketed

(JHP or CMJ) bullet.

I shoot WAC and MG 124 JHP and NEVER have to clean the barrel/comp.

Accuracy? See attached photo of a 52 yard group (3" for 10 shots, 2" for most of them).

HS6 is also good, but dirtier.

The best I've tried is HS6 with 115 grain bullet, but the case is so full that I spill some

going around the curve on my SDB.

So, I went to WAC - cleaner, and doesn't fill the case so high.

[Hi-Power Jack]

You should start out with WAC (c.6.7 - 7.3 grains) and a 124 grain fully jacketed

(JHP or CMJ) bullet.

I shoot WAC and MG 124 JHP and NEVER have to clean the barrel/comp.

Accuracy? See attached photo of a 52 yard group (3" for 10 shots, 2" for most of them).

HS6 is also good, but dirtier.

The best I've tried is HS6 with 115 grain bullet, but the case is so full that I spill some

going around the curve on my SDB.

So, I went to WAC - cleaner, and doesn't fill the case so high.

[Absocold]

After spending half the night searching these forums it seems Acme 115gr RN with WAC might be what I'm looking for but I'm still seeking thoughts and opinions.

I know everyone swears by Montana Gold and the extra 5.4 cents per bullet doesn't seem like a lot, but even if I only shoot two thousand rounds a month for a year the price difference is just shy of $1,300. That's starting to sound like money, so I'd really prefer to go with coated. But with Precision Delta that difference drops down to $283. I can live with that if they're truly a better choice over coated.

[DoBell]

I've had success with 124 grain Blue bullets and Bayou bullets, both RN, with about 7.9 grains of HS-6. I forget my OAL, but it was quite long, something like 1.175 if I recall. Accuracy was good, and I liked how they shot. However, I was getting a little leading. I went back to shooting my .40 and haven't finished developing my 9mm major load yet, but I'm going to stick with either Blue or Bayou bullets and HS-6 and see if I can reduce the leading problem. They were accurate, fast, dirty, and soft shooting.

[mike_pinto]

Precision Delta are fine bullets for sure, but your pricing may be off from a case perspective. $340/4000 for PD 115JHP (unless you get some killer discount) versus MG $365/4000 case price makes the Montana Gold a negligible cost difference. WAC is great for 124's but HS-6 feels much better with the lighter bullets for sure. I have only shot about 60,000 rounds out of this current open gun I have, but the perfect combination for me is 8.6gr HS-6 with a MG 115JHP at 1.160". It will literally make a ragged hole at 50 (from a rest 'cause I don't shoot that good) and is 171PF on any chrono. I would highly recommend the JHP over the FMJ for not only accuracy, but for the complete coating. Just my $.02 and as always, your mileage may vary.. Good luck with the new gun..

Mike

Edited November 16, 2015 by mike_pinto

[Sarge]

I run 7.8 WAC with MG 115JHP @1.168. I know some really good shooters who use coated BBI's but only for practice and locals. 115's need to hit 1500 FPS to make 172pf. That's asking a lot out of a coated bullet and keep the gun clean of lead. Pretty much smoke like hell too which is a turn off for me personally

[Absocold]

Woah, did not see the big price cut when buying 4,000 bullet cases from MG. So the yearly price difference between shooting smokey, dirty, smelly coated bullets vs the best bullet on the planet is less than $500 a year. Seems hard to say no.

Great, now I just have to decide between 115 vs 124 and HS-6 vs WAC.

From everything I've read it seems the 115's are snappier but have a flatter trajectory and HS-6 is softer but WAC is cleaner and doesn't fill the case as much. Do I have all that right? If so I'm leaning towards 115's with WAC.

[EEH]

Montana Gold ordered by the case 4000 bullets is just under or was $400. That's only 100 dollars per 1000

[Absocold]

I'm... not sure how that helps. I just saw the price on their website and used it to come up with a cost difference. Read the thread, I think you're replying without knowing the context.

Meanwhile, here's where I'm at:

From everything I've read it seems the 115's are snappier but have a flatter trajectory and HS-6 is softer but WAC is cleaner and doesn't fill the case as much. Do I have all that right? If so I'm leaning towards 115's with WAC.

[Sarge]

Montana Gold ordered by the case 4000 bullets is just under or was $400. That's only 100 dollars per 1000

actually they are $365.

[Sarge]

I'm... not sure how that helps. I just saw the price on their website and used it to come up with a cost difference. Read the thread, I think you're replying without knowing the context.

Meanwhile, here's where I'm at:

From everything I've read it seems the 115's are snappier but have a flatter trajectory and HS-6 is softer but WAC is cleaner and doesn't fill the case as much. Do I have all that right? If so I'm leaning towards 115's with WAC.

Trajectory is not part of the equation. Maybe you are thinking that's what it means to shoot flat?

[Absocold]

No, I understand that when someone says a pistol shoots flat they mean it has very little muzzle flip (or upwards recoil if you prefer that term). But a lighter bullet at a faster speed also means a flatter trajectory as well. I even said "flatter trajectory" in my post, maybe I should have said "flatter bullet trajectory" so as not to confuse. And since I enjoy shooting long range with all my guns then trajectory is a factor to consider when I'm making my bullet choice.

Quick, someone make a Cmore knockoff that has mil dots in the glass!

From what I understand, the difference in how flat the pistol recoils is negligible between HS-6 and WAC given the same bullet weight and velocity, HS-6 just feels a bit softer or less violent about it.

Still hoping for some experiences and opinions on questions posed in post #10.

[Sarge]

You realize people are trying to help get you started don't you? You may want to lighten up with the insults

So you are going to use your USPSA Open gun for long range precision work as well?!? That's an interesting concept for sure. Then I guess at 100 yards a 115 at 1500 FPS should drop less than a 124 at 1350? Don't forget parallax in the equation since an upright mount will have the dot much higher than the bore. Will be less with a 90.

As for answering post 10 HS 6 is a little dirtier than WAC but I shoot WAC and it's not exactly clean. Gun still needs cleaned every 4-5 matches. HS6 is super dirty when not turned way up. The more you use in a load the cleaner it burns.

115's in Open are not snappy per say. They hit the hand pretty hard but heck, so do 121-125 when loaded to 172+pf. Maybe not as hard but still a +P++++ feel. It is a race division after all.

Best thing to do is order 500 each and load some 115's and 124's with both powders at varying oals and run them through the gun. Make sure to use a timer so you can measure performance under match conditions. Only you will know what is best for you and your gun as testing progresses.

Good luck!

Edited November 17, 2015 by Sarge

[Absocold]

I'm not sure how we got off on the wrong foot, I never meant to be in the least bit antagonistic. That other fella that only read the last post and replied willy nilly was a bit frustrating but at least he took the time to reply. I understood you were trying to help me correct a possible misconception and I appreciate that too.

As to shooting long range, just about my favorite thing ever is to show up to a rifle range and take money off people by outshooting their deer rifle with my visually bone stock 1911 .45acp at 100 yards. So yeah, I like doing things that most just "know" is impossible. Everyone knows that 1911's can barely shoot a 5" group at 25 yards, right? Right?! Only competition shooters and regular range goers know differently.

And so I would like to be able to shoot at least 100 yards with this new gun, heck if the dot will track far enough, a fast 9mm might be able to go out to 200 with decent accuracy. Sadly my .45 won't, my match loaded ammo just doesn't have the oompf to get out that far with any authority behind it. If I can't shoot past 50 yards with this new gun that's fine too, that's not really what this gun is for. But if it's possible then why not plan for it?

[Gooldylocks]

You realize you are being a dick to people trying to get you started don't you?

So you are going to use your USPSA Open gun for long range precision work as well?!? That's an interesting concept for sure. Then I guess at 100 yards a 115 at 1500 FPS should drop less than a 124 at 1350? Don't forget parallax in the equation since an upright mount will have the dot much higher than the bore. Will be less with a 90.

Probably the 124 at 1400ish would do better, cause you have to think about the ballistic coefficient as well... joking, obviously .

No, I understand that when someone says a pistol shoots flat they mean it has very little muzzle flip (or upwards recoil if you prefer that term). But a lighter bullet at a faster speed also means a flatter trajectory as well. I even said "flatter trajectory" in my post, maybe I should have said "flatter bullet trajectory" so as not to confuse. And since I enjoy shooting long range with all my guns then trajectory is a factor to consider when I'm making my bullet choice.

Quick, someone make a Cmore knockoff that has mil dots in the glass!

From what I understand, the difference in how flat the pistol recoils is negligible between HS-6 and WAC given the same bullet weight and velocity, HS-6 just feels a bit softer or less violent about it.

Still hoping for some experiences and opinions on questions posed in post #10.

Use HS6 and 115s, and clean your gun once in awhile. It is flat, and soft, and meters incredibly well, just a bit dirty. Just get it and load up some ammo and practice. Also, 500 bucks a year is a lot (maybe not to you, but to me that is several thousand more rounds that I wouldn't have gotten to shoot otherwise), when you think about how much ammo that actually works out to be.

Or get some power pistol and 115s, and shoot that.

And just a tip, biting the hand that feeds you load data is never a good way to be, just btw.

[hoserdude]

I have used both HS6 and Autocomp. They both work well with the MG 121 ifp that I use. You have to clean your gun with both. Autocomp is cheaper to buy, and you use less.At 7 grains of WAC I chrono at 171 pretty much wherever I go.

[Absocold]

I have used both HS6 and Autocomp. They both work well with the MG 121 ifp that I use. You have to clean your gun with both. Autocomp is cheaper to buy, and you use less.At 7 grains of WAC I chrono at 171 pretty much wherever I go.

Okay groovy, thanks. A couple questions if you will. Why the 121's instead of 115 or 124? What COAL are you using with those?

[Sarge]

121 is a great compromise and can be run at same aol as 115's since that is how they start out before s drop of lead fills the cavity

[EEH]

After spending half the night searching these forums it seems Acme 115gr RN with WAC might be what I'm looking for but I'm still seeking thoughts and opinions.

I know everyone swears by Montana Gold and the extra 5.4 cents per bullet doesn't seem like a lot, but even if I only shoot two thousand rounds a month for a year the price difference is just shy of $1,300. That's starting to sound like money, so I'd really prefer to go with coated. But with Precision Delta that difference drops down to $283. I can live with that if they're truly a better choice over coated.

what I was replying to was the cost for MG or other Bullets ,for 9 major there is a complete thread on the subject ..

[OPENB]

Of the powders in your first post, those suitable for open, as mentioned, are WAC and HS6, but also Silhouette. I liked my Silhouette open loads, but HS6 was easier to get. Precision Delta are a bargain when ordering 2k or more at a time, $89/k for 124 JHP. Pick your bullet, and try all 3 of those powders. You may like one over the other. A recent look at Powder Valley shows a lot of powders are available again.

[mike_pinto]

So a little disclaimer... I have a 7-port stainless comp on my 9 Open gun, so I need a little more pressure to work the comp at its best.. I use the 115's and HS-6 because of this. If you look at the Open Nationals stats, almost 80% of the 9mm Major loads were using 124's. If I had a shorter, lighter comp, I think the 124's with WAC are the best combination. The beauty of the 115's with HS-6 is that the dot really never leaves, the bad part is that you have to really drive the gun in transitions. The 124's and the 115's with WAC gave me just enough muzzle rise to make the transitions a little more effortless. It is fun though having your dot stay in the A zone on a target at 15 yards through recoil..

[Absocold]

Alrighty, that makes a lot of sense. I must have been silly to try for a one size fits all approach, was just hoping to simplify my ammo stockpile.

I'll start testing the 124's with WAC for open matches and then work up a separate long range/bullseye match load if my open load isn't performing well enough for that too.