racknrider Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 COF requires string to be fired SHO. Shooter engages all targets freestyle. One PE was assessed for the infraction. Peanut gallery called for 1 PE per target but I see no rule to support that. Am I missing anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forrest Halley Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 I see no rule that allows for the peanut gallery's opinion to be counted. I would protest if the So wasn't capable of making a decision and took the peanut gallery's opinion on the call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balakay Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 I agree with you and the SO: 5.1.2 Only one (1) PE is assessed for each type of infraction in a string of fire. If the shooter commits more than one type of infraction, such as using the wrong specified hand and firing an incorrect number of shots, a separate PE is assessed for each type of infraction.... This was one type of infraction, therefore 1 PE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racknrider Posted August 3, 2015 Author Share Posted August 3, 2015 I was the SO and gave 1 PE. I always like to check my calls against specific rules and wanted to make sure I didn't miss anything. Another certified SO on my squad thought it may be a multiple PE situation. Never hurts to check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forrest Halley Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 Yes, but YOU are the man in charge of the squad/stage. It is inappropriate for you to ask the peanut gallery, certified or not, for an opinion. It is also inappropriate for the peanut gallery, certified or not, to render an opinion. It undermines your credibility and authority. If I were him I would have told you to make the call and then we'll discuss it or kept my mouth shut. If anything your questions should be directed up the match chain of command. It looks bad to the shooters, sort of like...you don't know what you're doing. Yes I realize that match staff are volunteers. I also realize that the club is selling a product to the shooter in the form of a match and feel that customer service needs to be fair, firm and professional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racknrider Posted August 3, 2015 Author Share Posted August 3, 2015 I think you are reading a bit extra into my post. I made the call, did not ask the peanuts for their opinion and told them they were wrong. The other SO approached me on the side and offered his opinion. Since I cannot remember the rule book verbatim, I thought that it would be a good idea to confirm my ruling for my own benefit. Thanks for your comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Lord Gomer Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 People were likely confused with the rule in USPSA: 10.2.8 If a course of fire stipulates shooting strong or weak hand only, a competitor will not be penalized for using the other hand (i.e. the other arm from the shoulder to the hand) to disengage an external safety, to reload or to correct a malfunction. However, the competitor will be issued one procedural penalty per shot fired while:10.2.8.1 Touching the handgun with the other hand while firing shots;10.2.8.2 Using the other hand to support the handgun, wrist or shooting arm while firing shots;10.2.8.3 Using the other hand on a barricade or another prop to increase stability while firing shots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOF Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 You made the right call. 1 PE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peplow530 Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 The only person that you should cross reference with what happened and what was seen is the ASO / Scorekeeper. If you can't seem to figure it out between the two of you next the person to talk to would be the MD. And as stated above 1 PE was the correct call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD45 Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 How about 3 shots per target, and you put 2 on each? According to the SO test, it's one PE per target! Never seen that in 15 yrs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOF Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 3 shots per target and the shooter only puts 2 on each? 1 PE for failing to follow the COF procedures... that and the 2.5 second mike on each should be enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 3 shots per target and the shooter only puts 2 on each? 1 PE for failing to follow the COF procedures... that and the 2.5 second mike on each should be enough. Gotta disagree, Chris. One guy's opinion of what "should be enough" leads to the beloved Tribal Rulez Syndrome. Need to follow the rulebook whether or not one agrees with the specific rule. As an example of how this could be justified - Bobby Burner races through and puts 2 on each. Incompetent Jane really tries to put 3 but only gets 2 hits on each. Both are down the mikes. But Bobby got an advantage by taking fewer shots. And JD... "15 years" is another thing we who've done this for awhile need to be aware of. Some of the rules change. In this case, they're referring to 4.1.1 in the new rulebook. "When the shooter does not fire enough rounds at a target, the unfired rounds are counted as misses and a Procedural Error penalty is assessed for not following the CoF description." The latest rules clarification (when you're logged in to the idpa.com website) elaborate (pic) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD45 Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 I've been an SO for 4 yrs. I passed the 100 question recertification test 2 yrs ago. I failed the new 30 question one by one question. I studied what I missed and took it again ( too fast I admit. I was gonna be late for a plane flight), and they changed some questions. You can only miss 4. I missed 5. Two were my fault. The other 3 were bullshit. They are trying to make you fail. The instructor that taught our SO class never even recertified because he's sick of it. I know guys that have been SOs for years that don't know crap and still think you can reshoot for a gun jam. Do you think they'll pass? Lol IDPA better get ready to hire paid SOs, because they will become extinct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v1911 Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 So admittedly you bombed the test because of your own doing but IDPA is to blame? Our club has lost maybe 2 SOs in the past year. We've added about 5-6 in that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elguapo Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 (edited) So admittedly you bombed the test because of your own doing but IDPA is to blame? Our club has lost maybe 2 SOs in the past year. We've added about 5-6 in that time. Does IDPA ever do anything wrong IYO? Edited August 22, 2015 by elguapo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racknrider Posted August 22, 2015 Author Share Posted August 22, 2015 We just added 9 new SOs in my local (4 club) area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v1911 Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 So admittedly you bombed the test because of your own doing but IDPA is to blame? Our club has lost maybe 2 SOs in the past year. We've added about 5-6 in that time. Does IDPA ever do anything wrong IYO? Are there things about IDPA I don't like? Yes. Do I take the time and effort to vent frustrations about mistakes I made then blame the rulebook or someone else? Nope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOF Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 IDPA has lost a number of experienced SOs... the folks that have been there for most of a decade.... largely due to their rather stupid online tests. In my area (NE FL) they also de-certified several very experienced SOIs. I believe FL only has one SOI left, but he is good. But, how many SOs can one person teach, and how well will these newly minted SOs perform? The FL AC also "retired". I do not know if the intention of IDPA HQ was to reduce the number of experienced people and bring in a crowd of newbies, but that does seem to be the end result. The local USPSA clubs are sending IDPA HQ "thank you" letters. I'm having a lot of fun with my Open Minor gun, and will likely replace the barrel with a non-ported version and shoot CO when that gets going a bit more strongly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v1911 Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 Glad to hear you found a new passion GOF. Anyone know how long ACs hold their position for? Our AC is also new for TX but our last one wasn't AC for very long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarkeg Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Glad to hear you found a new passion GOF. Anyone know how long ACs hold their position for? Our AC is also new for TX but our last one wasn't AC for very long. There's no set "Term length" for an IDPA AC. I think your last AC was doing it for several years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD45 Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Why are people defending the stupid test? I know guys with a 30yr background in IPSC and IDPA that are not SOs anymore. Example: I know the new 180 rule and the muzzle safe point rule. But the question was dumb and confusing. Just that one question would have helped me pass it. And Wtf is up with a multiple choice with A,B,C , D,E, F,G, H??! Those were such a headache I just got pissed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD45 Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 The whole idea in an SO test should be to run a safe match and score it correctly. Half of the SOs I see don't know crap and love to stick their fingers in the targets! I have to beg them to tell people not to touch the target. Our know it all MD was handling ammo in the safe area for Pete's sake! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
safeactionjackson Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 I just shot the NER, and procedurals were handled per the new rule book (as painful as it may be for some). Each year we see some confusion, but I doubt this is why people who have been SO's for 30 years are dropping out.... think you are coming to an unsubstantiated conclusion. Locally I can't say we haven't lost many, if any SO's.... I know a few people have moved onto other type of action shooting sports.... but this wasn't driven by the new rules, it was more or less driven by their performance as SO's, and a need to be part of something new/different. I attend 2-3 state championships, one regional championship, and at least two national events per year..... often after rule changes there is a little confusion, but I take my hats off to all that give up there time to make these matches happen, while they are not always perfect, and we can surely nit-pick.... the bottom line is without these people, there wouldn't be any matches. ~g Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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