Coated lead bullets loading tips?

[robport]

I received my first batches of coated lead bullets yesterday to try. I got some 230 grain for my .45 and some 147 grain for my Walther PPQ 5", both from different manufacturers.

I've only been using plated bullets since I dumped plain lead a long time ago and my press is set up for those. It has been working well that way.

I haven't loaded any of the 230's yet, since I'm out of large primers but I loaded about 20 of the 147's to test.

They all gauged properly, but I cycled them through the gun by hand and they all went fully into battery. When I tried to rack the slide, at least two of the 20 wouldn't move without me bracing the front of the slide on a fixed object (bench, and it took a lot of force). I can't find any measurements out, except the OAL, which is short due to the bullets being truncated.

I've obviously done something wrong...maybe with the bullet seating distorting the coating or something?

Is there some way you setup your press differently for coated bullets?

Just for interest, I also noticed that the 230's were spot on for weight and the 147's averaged 2 grains shy of 147...something I'm going to have to take into account with the chrono. I intended to try a few more companies coated bullets since some of these are a real savings over the plated ones I'm used to...unless these don't work with my guns.

[JRM83]

Sounds like the OAL is too long and the bullet is getting stuck in the rifling. My PPQ had a a fairly short chamber, especially compared to glock or HK. Pull the barrel, drop a round in the chamber, and if it doesn't rotate freely the OAL is too long.

Edited July 24, 2015 by JRM83

[Steve RA]

Be sure you flare enough to not scrape the coating when seating the bullet.

[jester121]

PPQ has a very tight chamber, check your crimp.

[blackhand]

Just got into the reloading game a few months ago and have only loaded coated lead bullets. I use a flare/bell of .385".

For 147 gr bullets, I've loaded Blue Bullets (round nose) and SNS Casting (flat point) bullets. I had to load the Blue Bullets shorter than the SNS Casting bullets to fit in my case gauge and GLOCK 19 match barrel. 1.100" OAL for the Blue Bullets vs. 1.135" OAL for the SNS Casting bullets. Both bullets are extremely accurate, but I stuck with the SNS Casting bullets because they chambered easier in my guns, and I could load them longer.

I recently started loading 125 gr SNS Casting bullets (round nose). I had to load these bullets fairly short as well. OAL of 1.085" to fit in my case gauge and barrels. Recommended crimp for the 125 and 147 gr bullets is .377"-.378", but I found that a .376" crimp ensures reliable chambering in my tighter match barrel. With a .376"-.378" taper crimp, there's a faint line around the bullet when pulled. The coating is still intact. With a tighter crimp, you'll probably break the coating and get some smoke when shooting the rounds.

My stock 9mm GLOCK barrels are fine with a .378" crimp and longer OALs.

[TomInKC]

Do they 'plunk test' OK on your barrel? I experienced something similar when starting out with the 147grn truncated cone projectiles. The curvature of the TC's was less than previously loaded RNs (e.g. the TCs engaged the rifling at OALs at which the RNs wouldn't) and I had to reduce the OAL until they reliably 'plunked' and dropped free of the barrel. 1.135" OAL for Bayou 147grn TCs seems to work well in my Glock 19. I would load up some dummies at various lengths and determine what your Walther likes. As others have said the coated bullets need a little more belling or you'll scrape the coating.

[zombywoof]

Lyman "M" die. Belling is a waste

[polizei1]

Take your barrel out and test fit them by dropping them in. As JRM83 said, they should freely rotate. They should also NOT be above the barrel hood. If that is the case on either, your OAL is too long. Your also going to want to check for brass for sizing. To do this, size a piece of brass and drop it into the barrel (same as above but without a bullet). The brass should freely drop and rotate in the barrel. This will help determine if it's a brass issue or bullet (OAL) issue.

If the brass is binding, you'll probably need to screw your sizing die down further. Also, be sure you're taking out the flare/bell, it can also get hung up on that.

What is the OAL you're loading them too? My guess is that if it's a short chamber, you're going to have to load to ~1.10" or so.

Edited July 24, 2015 by polizei1

[FlightMurse]

I'd be curious to know the OAL also. I have no experience with the Walther but 95% of my handgun loading has been coated bullets. Make sure you are belling the case. Also, what seating die are you using?

[robport]

Thanks for all the input. For the gun locking up, it sure was the OAL. I had adjusted it some to the truncated cone design, but no where nearly enough due to the thicker shoulder on the design. I'm down to 1.080 now. I've never had one that short. I realize that that filling out the cone would take it up to about 1.160 or so, but it looks strange. These are ACME red, by the way.

They shoot nicely. I didn't notice a change in accuracy. I haven't chronoed them yet because I'm still playing with the belling. I have it pretty loose now. I'm getting more smoke than I want, especially for the indoor range I shoot at. I guess I shouldn't refer to it as smoke, it's mostly just an acrid burning smell. I've adjusted the crimp so they barely fit back into the chamber gauge, so as not to crush the coating. These are being pushed by 3.2 grains of Bullseye. That's the powder I have right now. It pushes my Xtreme plated 147's at an average of 132 PF. Maybe it's too hot for these?

I did have one annoying problem while loading. I kept adjusting the bell, and getting to just where I thought it should be when I tried to seal a bullet and it fell out when it dropped into the tray (what a mess). Thinking I had gone too far, I readjusted everything and it did the same thing (I didn't even consider the fact that I was running a Lee sizing die as the last stage...lol). After thinking I had a case problem and that wasn't it, I went to what I thought was the least likely and measured the diameter of the bullet....350. I had to start over again. I've since pulled a sample group out of the bag and measured them and so far, that is the only one I've found.....Murphy's law right? What were the odds that a bullet would be that far off in diameter? I guess I should have suspected it after I measured an average of 145 grains, rather than 147. They appeared to be all within a quarter of a grain of that though. I need a better scale to tell closer though.

I have another 425 or so to play with, so I should know if I like them by then.

I'm anxious to load some of the .45's (Precision coated). 20 of them weighed in as close as I could measure to 230 grains. The dark coating appears to be very different.

[tcazes]

Remember plated and fmj take quite a bit more powder to achieve the velocity of a coated lead bullet. I'm willing to bet you are running them a little on the hotside. Will it melt or cause some other anomaly? Probably not but for saving powders sake you can in fact back them off.

The coating on the lead is a lower efficiency of friction than a metal jacket so velocities are generally higher. I'd chrono some and save the extra powder.

[polizei1]

If you're not leading the barrel they aren't too hot, but I agree with tcazes, you're just "wasting" powder. Back it off a bit and chrono them, usually you're going to be ~0.2-0.5gr LESS for the same velocity as FMJ.

You also need to load a completed round and pull the bullet to check the crimp, make sure you're getting rid of the bell but not crimping where you're cutting into the coating and exposing the lead.

Edited July 25, 2015 by polizei1

[blackhand]

They shoot nicely. I didn't notice a change in accuracy. I haven't chronoed them yet because I'm still playing with the belling. I have it pretty loose now. I'm getting more smoke than I want, especially for the indoor range I shoot at. I guess I shouldn't refer to it as smoke, it's mostly just an acrid burning smell. I've adjusted the crimp so they barely fit back into the chamber gauge, so as not to crush the coating. These are being pushed by 3.2 grains of Bullseye. That's the powder I have right now. It pushes my Xtreme plated 147's at an average of 132 PF. Maybe it's too hot for these?

For coated 147 gr bullets, 2.8 gr of Bullseye at 1.135 OAL cycled all my guns fine. I tested some loads with 3.0 and 3.2 gr of Bullseye. No pressure signs, but I wasn't loading for power factor, so I stuck with the 2.8 gr loading. I've read and experienced that Bullseye tends to be smoky with coated bullets. Bullseye is the fastest powder I've loaded for 9mm. You might like a slower burning powder better for the 147 gr bullets. I've used WSF, Ramshot Competition, and VV N320 to good effect.

[peterthefish]

If you're loading to 1.080 you probably have pretty high pressures with bullseye. As others mentioned, you should be able to load lighter with coated than lead and still hit the same PF. What was your initial OAL where the bullet was getting jammed in the leade? I load to 1.135 and 147 TCs chamber in my PPQ fine.

[RickT]

I bell with a PTX, seat with a micrometer RCBS and size with a Lee FCD. OAL is 1.11" for our 9mm 1911s; I could run longer, but the shorter OAL with less powder burns cleaner (WSF). I haven't used a gauge or barrel to test in over 20K rounds with nary a problem.

[texasref]

normally the bullets are a little larger normal, I had Donnie at Bayou to swage my 45's to 0,451" and that stopped the feeding problem or rather the "sticking" problem I had and seems you have also.

Blue Bullets' 9mm are right on diameter, so that may help with your issue.

[robport]

Small update. I went to the range this morning to chrono, but since there were too many people there, I just shot some of my new Precision .45's. I used the same load as for my copper plated, since those were way below power factor for 230 gr (around 150 PF). Absolutely no smoke, but it felt and sounded like a friggin cannon going off. The 4.4 grains recipe, that I was using was way below the minimum given on the Alliant website for Bullseye. Who knew. I can see I have much more work to do to come up with a load for that...lol. I don't think the crimp was responsible, since I just barely removed the belling enough to get it in the case gauge.

I have a lot more to learn about these new fangled epoxy coated bullets!

[robport]

I just got back from chronographing.

The Lipstick bullets 145 (supposed to be 147) averaged 965 ft/sec 14 stdDev for right at 140 power factor.

I'm going to try 3.0 grains and 2.8 grains next.

There was some noticeable, but not a large amount of smoke that dissipated quickly and an acrid burned chemical smell that I just couldn't place.

Hopefully, that will go away when I drop the powder, because I didn't feel comfortable with that smell.

The precision 230's with 4.4 grains Bullseye averaged 794 ft/sec, 18 stdDev for 183 PF I had one as hot as 844 though. I noticed that one but I believe I used too heavy a crimp.

Very little smoke, no noticeable smell.

I'm dropping all the way to 4 grains this time.

[dave33]

There was some noticeable, but not a large amount of smoke that dissipated quickly and an acrid burned chemical smell that I just couldn't place.

Hopefully, that will go away when I drop the powder, because I didn't feel comfortable with that smell.

One drawback to Hy-Tek coated bullets, some people say they smell like burning plastic or something to that effect. I am not overly sensitive to it but it does have a very specific smell. Some powders or load combinations may be worse than others but I believe there will be some smell no matter what your load is. It is not dangerous.

[FlightMurse]

"Do you smell that? Hy-tek and Titegroup son. Nothing else in the world smells like that. I love the smell of Hy-tek. It smells like... Victory"

[peterthefish]

Yup. I was shooting HiTek bullets at the range a couple months ago and the guy in the bay ran outside suddenly. He came back in and I asked what was going on. He thought his car was on fire.

Backing down the load may help a bit, but those lead slugs warm up a bit getting squeezed down the barrel and that's the smell you get.

[biglou13]

I'm running 147 blue bullet over 3.0 bullseye

Sounds like you got your issues fixed.

I had issues with blue at first. All round nose are not created equal. Push tested bullet backed off from there. Then had issues turned out to be certain cases, now culled, Last issue I backed crimp off too much. I still plunk and spin every other, I have tried as high as 3.4.BE I have short/ tight chamber and coal is 1.075.....super short ..... But they perform GREAT. no pressure signs... No chrono data

yet. And BE is Great in the .45

[robport]

I'm rapidly running out of Acme lipstick bullets, so I've ordered some Zombie bullets from Lucky13.

So far, I've tried two of the three coated bullets that I could find, that provide enough cost savings to consider switching from Xtreme plated.

My 230 grain Precision bullets have been pretty flawless. Very, very little smoke with no noticeable odor. The coating is adhered well and soft enough to absorb some impact. I may get these again.

I reduced the amount of smoke of the Acme bullets to a easily livable level with less crimp, more flare and less powder. The coating seems a little more brittle and comes off easily while sliding into the cases. or if it bumps something. I don't think I will be going with these long term due to three things; the brittleness of the coating, the smell of burning coating, and the truncated design that won't cycle in my non-ramped 9mm 1911 (works fine in the Walther). One other thing was that I measured them at 145 grains rather than 147. I needed to know that for PF computations, but that didn't bother me much.

Hopefully the green bullets will get here soon.

[rowdyb]

the smoke/acrid smell you mention is one reason why i don't shoot coated bullets any longer in matches. especially indoors.

[dave33]

The Lucky13's are powder coated so there shouldnt be any smell, at least not like the HY-Tek coated ones. One thing when you are loading, try to place the bullet as perfectly upright as possible. A lot of the shaving comes from a bullet going in somewhat sideways until the case lip shoves it back the other way but by then there can be some shaving of the coating. Sometimes a little less bell is good if it holds the case more upright, less chance to lean and cut the coating.