itzjere Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 (edited) I had a strange experience tonight at the range. I fired approx. 150 rounds through my SP-01 at a reasonable rate of fire with several breaks inbetween to reload when my CZ wouldn't chamber a new round anymore. It would be out of battery (as far back as having the two lines from the slide and frame line up). I kept ejecting the rounds and chamber the next and it would continue to do so. So I field stripped the CZ and wiped it down. I checked the barrel/chamber for obstructions and didn't see any. I had my case gauge with me, and all rounds that were not chambering were passing just fine with the case gauge.. Issue persisted after cleaning. I field stripped the gun again and tried to drop the rounds into the barrel and notice they would not drop completely. Previously shot cases were dropping in just fine. I loaded the same rounds into my M&P and they would chamber and fired just fine. I borrowed 9mm rounds from some of my friends from a variety of sources (factory federal, reman freedom, other reloads) and they all exhibited the same issue in my CZ with the barrel test and passing the case gauge test. Come home an hour later, and tried to do the barrel test with my original rounds, and now all the rounds are dropping in freely.. Did not change anything. Is it possible that my barrel had expanded from a steady amount of shooting? I wasn't shooting very quickly.. nothing compared to the higher rate at a monthly match I go to.. Edited July 9, 2015 by itzjere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czman Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Strange - never heard of this. CZ's need shorter rounds (yes, shorter than gage) - just search here. But really odd. Only thing wrt barrel - some obstruction that cleared itself? A partial squib? No way to tell until you shoot again with decent quality factory ammo again. I might have guessed a different cause with the slide out of battery but this might be it. Test again with decent quality factory ammo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 I field stripped the gun dropped the rounds into the barrel and they would not drop completely. One possibility is that your OAL is Very Close to being too long, and heat or debris may have caused failure to chamber. When we reload, if we set our OAL at 1.10", we'll find a range-some will be shorter and some longer You might want to try it again with very slightly shorter rounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Sounds like a possible squib that eventually got shot out of the gun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronn Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 On my cz I had rounds that would not chamber all the way either. In my case I had to crimp almost to the rim then everything works perfect. My thought was when seating the bullet it slightly bulged the case under it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samuel Adams Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 (edited) Just as Hi-Power Jack stated, I suspect the OAL was too long. I've had this problem with reloads. Edited July 9, 2015 by Samuel Adams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9x45 Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 My shooting buddy went through this with his CZ. Turns out it was the case length of just the brass. CZ's apparently do not like brass longer than .754" maximum. Try measuring some of the cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishsticks Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 I had a similar experience. A quick cleaning allowed it to function for the rest of the match. When I got home I detail stripped it and found a fair bit of soft carbon build up in and around the extractor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itzjere Posted July 9, 2015 Author Share Posted July 9, 2015 Thanks everyone for chiming in. To answer a few questions: no squib. I checked the barrel the first time I took it down and shined my flashlight through it. it was clear. I am loading to an OAL of 1.14, so it sounds like I may be close.. don't have specifics on my taper crimp Even with all things considered, I still find it strange that the exact same rounds that would not chamber at the range, would chamber once I got home with no changes to the pistol.. I tried factory federal rounds at the time which also did not chamber, but chamber now. Kind of eliminates the possibility of it being OAL and brass length? Only difference I can think of is that the barrel cooled down between my range trip and being at home, but I can't imagine the barrel being that sensitive to heat.. unless I am very close in OAL.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9x45 Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 It doesn't matter how hot the barrel is, you could have run 10 mags straight and it won't matter. OAL is different than brass length. You need to measure the actual length of the brass. Most brass is short to the standard .754", usually on the order of .740" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itzjere Posted July 9, 2015 Author Share Posted July 9, 2015 It doesn't matter how hot the barrel is, you could have run 10 mags straight and it won't matter. OAL is different than brass length. You need to measure the actual length of the brass. Most brass is short to the standard .754", usually on the order of .740" Totally understand what you're saying, but why does the exact same round now chamber an hour after my range trip? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 It's probably carbon build up in the chamber at the case mouth, combined with brass that is a bit too long. As for OAL, I load RN 147's out to 1.150 in my Shadow, but can only load 124 JHP's to 1.085...the jhp hits the lands at 1.095. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9x45 Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 It doesn't matter how hot the barrel is, you could have run 10 mags straight and it won't matter. OAL is different than brass length. You need to measure the actual length of the brass. Most brass is short to the standard .754", usually on the order of .740" Totally understand what you're saying, but why does the exact same round now chamber an hour after my range trip? Exact same thing happened to my buddy at the match. Rounds that would not chamber, and when he got home, tried again, they worked. Turns out these were at .755". You need to measure the cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 I just got mine and the ammo I bought from freedom munition with oal of 1.14 is not clambering. This is a RN bullet 147gr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itzjere Posted July 9, 2015 Author Share Posted July 9, 2015 It doesn't matter how hot the barrel is, you could have run 10 mags straight and it won't matter. OAL is different than brass length. You need to measure the actual length of the brass. Most brass is short to the standard .754", usually on the order of .740" Totally understand what you're saying, but why does the exact same round now chamber an hour after my range trip? Exact same thing happened to my buddy at the match. Rounds that would not chamber, and when he got home, tried again, they worked. Turns out these were at .755". You need to measure the cases. Thanks, I will examine the brass. I will also be looking at loading a little shorter (1.13) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Matt Cheely will throat those short chambers for you all. $35 and turned around in one day! Then you can load to normal lengths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_striker Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 (edited) Sounds like they might be getting caught on the extractor to me. Load up some dummy rounds. Slow cycle the dummy rounds and see if you can recreate the malfunction. Like really slow...Ride the slide very slowly. Once you recreate it, push on the part of the extractor that has the spring under it. If that triggers the round to chamber, it's likely an extractor issue. ETA-just read OP again. Weird that they weren't dropping into the barrel though. What kind of case gauge? Edited July 9, 2015 by d_striker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itzjere Posted July 9, 2015 Author Share Posted July 9, 2015 Sounds like they might be getting caught on the extractor to me. Load up some dummy rounds. Slow cycle the dummy rounds and see if you can recreate the malfunction. Like really slow...Ride the slide very slowly. Once you recreate it, push on the part of the extractor that has the spring under it. If that triggers the round to chamber, it's likely an extractor issue. ETA-just read OP again. Weird that they weren't dropping into the barrel though. What kind of case gauge? I initially suspected extractor as well but yea, wasn't dropping into barrel on it's own. Lyman case gauge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_striker Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Sounds like they might be getting caught on the extractor to me. Load up some dummy rounds. Slow cycle the dummy rounds and see if you can recreate the malfunction. Like really slow...Ride the slide very slowly. Once you recreate it, push on the part of the extractor that has the spring under it. If that triggers the round to chamber, it's likely an extractor issue. ETA-just read OP again. Weird that they weren't dropping into the barrel though. What kind of case gauge? I initially suspected extractor as well but yea, wasn't dropping into barrel on it's own. Lyman case gauge. I just got two SP01 Shadows recently. Had the same issue with some rounds not chambering but they all passed case gauge. My chamber is definitely looser than my Dillon case gauge though. Rounds that fail CG still fit into chamber. My issue was the extractor but sounds like you have something else going on if they won't drop freely into your barrel chamber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian45acp Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 9x45 and I roll together at the matches. Trust me it's the length of the brass. Look up my posts and read them. In short the length of just the brass must be .754 or less. If more then .754 say .756 you chamber it once or twice and it dings the case mouth back enough to be in spec then would later chamber. Get your calipers out and measure the brass but not the cartridge length. Load mags and hand cycle the ammo through the gun. Don't touch the trigger! Find the one that hangs the slide out and measure the brass. If you have a bullet puller use it and measure the brass length. This has nothing to do with extractor or bullet etc. it will pass the plunk test but won't chamber in the gun because the brass length is too long and makes the rear of the case stick out too far and the barrel can't push upward and lock into the lugs of the slide Research my recent posts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian45acp Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 (edited) .......... Edited July 10, 2015 by brian45acp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itzjere Posted July 10, 2015 Author Share Posted July 10, 2015 9x45 and I roll together at the matches. Trust me it's the length of the brass. Look up my posts and read them. In short the length of just the brass must be .754 or less. If more then .754 say .756 you chamber it once or twice and it dings the case mouth back enough to be in spec then would later chamber. Get your calipers out and measure the brass but not the cartridge length. Load mags and hand cycle the ammo through the gun. Don't touch the trigger! Find the one that hangs the slide out and measure the brass. If you have a bullet puller use it and measure the brass length. This has nothing to do with extractor or bullet etc. it will pass the plunk test but won't chamber in the gun because the brass length is too long and makes the rear of the case stick out too far and the barrel can't push upward and lock into the lugs of the slide Research my recent posts I'll take a read. Thanks for your comments! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_striker Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 (edited) 9x45 and I roll together at the matches. Trust me it's the length of the brass. Look up my posts and read them. In short the length of just the brass must be .754 or less. If more then .754 say .756 you chamber it once or twice and it dings the case mouth back enough to be in spec then would later chamber. Get your calipers out and measure the brass but not the cartridge length. Load mags and hand cycle the ammo through the gun. Don't touch the trigger! Find the one that hangs the slide out and measure the brass. If you have a bullet puller use it and measure the brass length. This has nothing to do with extractor or bullet etc. it will pass the plunk test but won't chamber in the gun because the brass length is too long and makes the rear of the case stick out too far and the barrel can't push upward and lock into the lugs of the slide Research my recent posts Interesting. Can you link to a specific thread? Edited July 10, 2015 by d_striker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 I had a similar instance with 38 super one time...The round would pass the plunk test, OAL was spot on, but it would not chamber...turns out the extractor groove on the case was over sized by .004, and it wouldn't slide up under the extractor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian45acp Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 By the way I confirmed all of which I found with the extractor removed to be sure my findings were correct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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