XRe Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 I'm very excited to be coming back into the sport (in the next couple of months) after a 5 year hiatus. I reflected that there was one activity that I'm not really looking forward to - ROing. My level I RO class was one of the coolest learning I experiences I had in this sport, in the early days of my competition. What a great way to learn the rules, and the operations of a large match, etc. Highly recommended for any competitor... However - starting the very day I finished that class, I've had a bunch of negative experiences while RO'ing, to the point where I started to feel like I was cursed - if there was going to be a DQ in the match, it seemed like it was going to happen while I had the box. In addition, I had a couple of very hostile experiences with other match staff and a "name" competitor. I stopped volunteering at major matches in the Atlanta area for just this reason. So - I'm a little uncomfortable with that prospect. Obviously, there are other duties that I could perform (taping, clipboard, brass, paint, etc...), but eventually there'll be a need to run the box, or, if I volunteer at a major match, I'll have the same responsibility regardless of what I'm doing. Help me out Is there therapy for ROs?? How do I get past this one hangup??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywalker Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 Book a room at the International Centre For Mentally Battered Range Officers. Board has changed since new year, but I guess Dr. Mc Manus will gladly put you back in shape in a few days... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dead Buff Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 Go RO and do the right thing. There will always be A$$holes about, but luckily most are the nice guys...they make it worth it if you do your part.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hopalong Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 Dave, Do anything you can to help.......... but if you don't want to RO....DON'T Help can be put to use in other ways!!!!! Assist in stage design/setup.....or teardown help with range maintenance if needed ect.... The best way to not enjoy a new hobbie or one you are getting back into is to do something you don't want to.... Remember.......This stuff is supposed to be FUN !!!!!!! Hop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted March 8, 2005 Author Share Posted March 8, 2005 The best way to not enjoy a new hobbie or one you are getting back into is to do something you don't want to.... Well, yeah, very true.... Don't get me wrong - I don't mind the act of running the timer. It's the eventual a**hole encounter that always seems to follow it for me... I had a couple of doozies that, near as I can tell, I did the right thing in each case.... I'm probably suffering from unfounded concerns - or something that, in the end, I just need to toughen up over... But.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidwiz Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 It's happened to me too. With some competitors, you just can't win. No matter how fair the match is run, no matter how helpful the ROs are, some people (including some on this board), will find a way to say very unkind, unprintable things about the ROs and blame the RO, instead of themselves, for what happened. If you find yourself in a situation where the competitor is making a fool of themselves and giving you attitude, withdraw, call the CRO or RM and let them handle it. The only solice that I can give is that the vast, vast majority of competitors don't behave that way and actually make RO'ing fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted March 8, 2005 Author Share Posted March 8, 2005 If you find yourself in a situation where the competitor is making a fool of themselves and giving you attitude, withdraw, call the CRO or RM and let them handle it.The only solice that I can give is that the vast, vast majority of competitors don't behave that way and actually make RO'ing fun. I agree with the second paragraph you quoted. In my history, the CRO or RM has been the *problem*, or part of it, in a couple of cases, unfortunately. But, people are people - not every match official is going to be that way. In the case w/ the "name" shooter, the CRO was apparently intimidated by the "super squad" - he was running the box, I called "stop" when the shooter broke the 180, and then I got cussed out by the CRO for daring to open my mouth. CRO didn't support my position (of course), shooter was re-instated, got a re-shoot, and, IIRC, won the match. Video (and the multitudes of onlookers) supported me, but..... obviously I've still got issues over that one 2nd case, I was following my CRO's instructions by keeping folks off the stage during lunch break (insuring that everyone got a consistent look at the stage). The RM proceeded to cuss me out for it. Actually, as it turns out, the RM was the same guy as the CRO in the above example, so.... Probably should tell me something.... I'm less timid, now, too - probably be a lot more likely to stand up for myself if those situations arose again, which they probably won't.... Still, I seemed to be the DQ magnet at the local level matches - 9 times out of 10, if there was a single DQ in a local match, I had the box when it happened - I never made an unfair call, or anything like that (that I know of). I feel really bad for having to chuck someone out of the match, though. And I hate the backlash that sometimes happens (luckily, as you say, it's not often - most folks are pretty gracious about it). Maybe I just need to get over it... I guess I *am* being a little silly, carrying these feelings around about it.... As part of our Level I course, we RO'ed a local match. One of the M class guys had an AD while doing a reload (while I had the box). Thus started my first DQ altercation - but not w/ the shooter. It was w/ one of our mutual buddies... It was good natured, but still a PITA.... After depressurizing, the shooter came back over and told the guy to back off.... Also, interesting, I never received any flak over it - so this crap is all in my own head I don't know if anyone else even noticed.... Helps to write it down, though.... thanks for reading it On the flip side - every match I went to following that, I tried to be as gracious as possible to the match staff, and thank them for their work, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidwiz Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 If the RO, CRO or RM is the problem, then there are avenues now available to remedy the situation. Notify the NROI about what happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooter Grrl Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 Also, IMHO, the *feel* of the sport has changed in the last 5 years! I see wwwaaaaayyyyy fewer a_-hole shooters and range nazi asswipe ro's these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted March 9, 2005 Author Share Posted March 9, 2005 Also, IMHO, the *feel* of the sport has changed in the last 5 years! I see wwwaaaaayyyyy fewer a_-hole shooters and range nazi asswipe ro's these days. That's refreshing to know I noticed several rule changes, as well, that I must familiarize myself with, too... In retrospect, I probably should have contacted NROI - and I will in the future, if I have any repeats of that kind of stuff - which hopefully won't ever happen again !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 If you don't enjoy the task, do something else. It really is that simple. I would rather RO than tape and brass so I spend a lot of time with a clip board or a timer. I have to admit to giving a couple of RO's a tough time. On two occasions I have had ROs (one was the Colorado State Championship) who used the commands ,LAMR, Stand By, Buzz... When I asked about the command Are You Ready? I was informed that command is a courtesy and is not a normal range command. People who know how legalistic and anal I can be can imagine how well I handled that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dunn Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 If a shooter wants to discuss or arbitrate a DQ in a civilized manner, great. If not they can argue the second DQ based on unsportsmanlike conduct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 Where is my Detroit Beer Cup??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richardschennberg Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 After all of the variations of pre-command greetings and questions "Welcome to Stage 3 ..." and "Have you read and do you understant the course of fire?" I have resorted to merely using the minimum range commands as long as everything looks O.K. No thinking about what to say, just watching the shooter and the gun. Are YOU ready? Richard Schennberg.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dunn Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 I've had fellow ROs chide me for not asking, "Do you understand the course of fire?" after I've said LAMR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted March 10, 2005 Author Share Posted March 10, 2005 I've had fellow ROs chide me for not asking, "Do you understand the course of fire?" after I've said LAMR. Ain't a range command. Tell 'em to go stuff it!!! Personally, I still prefer "Stoke 'em up, Cowboy!" to LAMR, but...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sargenv Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 The "Do you understand the Course of fire" is a courtesy and not part of the range commands. The course of fire doesn't start till "Load and make ready". I generally ask the "Do you understand..." and sometimes people say no in a joking manner (You know who you are)... Vince Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted May 16, 2005 Author Share Posted May 16, 2005 I just thought I might add that I ran the box for most of a stage at the match attended this past weekend - and didn't DQ anyone :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted May 16, 2005 Share Posted May 16, 2005 D'Oh! I forgot this thread I gave the box to Dave to RO me.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRT Driver Posted May 16, 2005 Share Posted May 16, 2005 The RO doesn't cause the competitor to commit an infraction..they do it on their own. RO's are there to observe and make calls regarding things that the competitor may not be aware they are doing. Or know they are doing and have not been caught doing before. My first time ROing after my Level 1 cert, I Dq'd 3 shooters. I didn't want to nor did I like it, but the rules are the rules and safety is safety. In fact the instructor that taught the class was there and said I made the right calls. If you have a fear of running shooters, run a couple and then switch off with another RO until you feel comfortable again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted May 17, 2005 Share Posted May 17, 2005 The RO doesn't cause the competitor to commit an infraction..they do it on their own. RO's are there to observe and make calls regarding things that the competitor may not be aware they are doing. Or know they are doing and have not been caught doing before.My first time ROing after my Level 1 cert, I Dq'd 3 shooters. I didn't want to nor did I like it, but the rules are the rules and safety is safety. In fact the instructor that taught the class was there and said I made the right calls. If you have a fear of running shooters, run a couple and then switch off with another RO until you feel comfortable again. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> John, You never DQ'd anyone. They did it to themselves, and you were just there to process the paperwork. ...Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDH Posted May 18, 2005 Share Posted May 18, 2005 XRe, First, lots of good advice given already.... Second, don't be too hard on yourself, as it seems that some of this stuff runs in cycles. Here's a great example.... I was running TGO at the 2001 Nationals when he came around the corner and dumped a mag on the ground right in front of the door (which made a nice doorstop, but really screwed up his run). The next year, I was running TGO at A5 when he took off into the stage but left his loaded magazine on the dummy. The next Nationals I was running TGO when he landed flat on his back in the middle of my big field course. It got to the point where whenever Robbie showed up and saw me, the comment was usually... 'oh no, YOU again!' and even I was getting paranoid and wondering if somehow I was a jinx for the National Champ??? Anyway, that string finally ended, and now we laugh about it when he sees me. Third, on the challenge with your CRO and RM, some of that is just bad match management that could (and should) have been avoided by a simple staff meeting at the beginning of the match. Those are great times to get everyone on the same page regarding things like access to the stage, bagging and unbagging on the line, etc. Finally, I still love the comment that the RM made to me at Area 3 a couple of years ago. Basically, I really blew a call, and I was beating myself up for it (it worked out in the shooters favor, so he was happy, but it was still a bad call). The RM just looked at me and we had the following discussion.... RM: "Did anyone lose an eye?" BDH: "No" RM: "Did anyone get pregnant?" BDH: "No" RM: "Did anyone die?" BDH: "No" RM: "Then don't worry about it...." and he walked away. The point was that I did the best I could under the circumstances... there were no 'serious' consequences... I couldn't change things anyway... and, I learned from the experience. What a great lesson, and I always remember that when I am coaching other range staff. Good luck to you, whether you RO or not..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobert1 Posted May 18, 2005 Share Posted May 18, 2005 I was also VERY afraid when I took control of the timer. Being one of the newest RO's. I learned some great things from Gary Stevens our class instructor and have been mentored by Bill Seevers. If possible what has helped ease me into the job is I RO for a large group of the same shooters that I shoot with each week. We are all from the same club and the mood is always friendly & fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasag93 Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 Just start slow. A shooter here and there on a local level. It will help settle you down. It can be very stressful at times. New shooters scare the crap out of me. You want them to shoot, you want them to have fun, but you know that they really need to do alot more practicing also. Take your time, do what you feel comfortable with and don't be afraid to hand the timer to someone else. Have fun!!!!!!!!!! TXAG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryDGeek Posted May 21, 2005 Share Posted May 21, 2005 Dave, Some people just shoot, some people just RO, some people do both. Shooting is easy. ROing is hard. I've been DQ'd twice. I never took it well. I've DQ'd ... I don't know how many people, but it's darn sure more than two. Or ten. Every time, I would have rather been DQ'd myself than to send somebody else home. Nobody likes being the guy who sends somebody home. But it's the job that has to be done, and if you don't do it chances are the job will fall to someone who isn't as knowledgeable or committed or caring as you are. Yeah, it's true. I've read your posts, and I admire you for being uncomfortable ... but still willing to put aside your angst and willing to give back to the sport part of what you have received from it. But it's still hard to do. I hope you can make the same decision that the rest of us have: master the rules, and be the kind of RO you hope you draw every time YOU shoot a stage. If you give it your honest best effort, and just can't handle the pressure, don't feel obligated to continue in a losing avocation. Quit ROing and pick up a tape gun, or score, or do something that is less personally upsetting to you. The RO has to make judgement calls in every match. A "judgement call" means that you have to know right now, without time to think it over and without reference to a rule book, that something is wrong and action should be taken. Your judgement may be wrong sometimes, and you will probably beat yourself up for your fallacy most times. People who enjoy the luxury of a Monday Morning Quarterback may criticize you for your judgement, after the fact. But as long as you know you made the best decision possible under the time-limitations and (probably) without benefit of having ALL the information available, you can take comfort in knowing that at that moment, under those conditions, you made the right call and gave the best service possible to the competitor AND to the sport. You're the best there is, Dave. Don't let nobody tell you any different. PS: About the idiots who tell you that you're wrong, and they obviously don't understand the rules? Pity them, smirk at them. Don't listen to them. Remember the words of that great American, Bugs Bunny: What a bunch of maroons! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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