Conical and Bull Barrels

[Craig N]

Yes....but why stop at 4.2?

Commander size 1911s

[Malarkey]

But why just the compact 1911's, that seems a little biased.

[M1911]

They didn't listen about the locks in Smith revos and I made a very reasonable presentation as to how it was not to be used on a loaded weapon. Robert Ray gave me a bumbling response and I realized that I was wrong to try and debate with him. I got out of the mud and went for a shower and change of clothes. That is likely the same remedy for your condition.

They have backtracked on the locks -- you can now disable them.

[Nimitz]

can someone explain to me why people like IDPA so much that they continue to put up with this kind of stuff? Why not just shoot USPSA Production and call it good ...?

Edited July 6, 2015 by Nimitz

[jsg]

can someone explain to me why people like IDPA so much that they continue to put up with this kind of stuff? Why not just shoot USPSA Production and call it good ...?

There are the "usual" reasons - "more realistic", "don't need no fancy race gun"... (<- Sarcasm) but I will tell you why it appeals to me.

Lower round count - The average 6 or 7 stage match is less than 130 rounds.

Less equipment - Only 3 mags, one mag holder, one multiuse belt, one holster, and one fancy fishing vest.

No Texas Star - Kidding (mostly).

I shoot USPSA with some regularity. I admit shooting SS makes my life harder but I need minimally 5 mags on my person and I get very frustrated at stages with min round counts in the mid 30s. I know I could shoot Limited and my main two gripes would go away.

[Malarkey]

can someone explain to me why people like IDPA so much that they continue to put up with this kind of stuff? Why not just shoot USPSA Production and call it good ...?

I dont like it...i shoot USPSA 90% of the time. Some of my friends like it, so when I go to a IDPA match with my friends it is frustrating to have to change my gear around and put on a tac life fishing vest.

[racknrider]

Convinience. There are 6 IDPA matches within 1 hours drive but only 2 USPSA matches.

[Steve Moneypenny]

for a long long time there were no cone barrels in production type guns, so they made rules to fit commander 1911's which were common carry guns. this simply prevented everyone from putting a bull barrel in their full size gun and claling it a day.

Steve

[Forrest Halley]

They didn't listen about the locks in Smith revos and I made a very reasonable presentation as to how it was not to be used on a loaded weapon. Robert Ray gave me a bumbling response and I realized that I was wrong to try and debate with him. I got out of the mud and went for a shower and change of clothes. That is likely the same remedy for your condition.

They have backtracked on the locks -- you can now disable them.

Well now I have a different problem. My barrel is too long and the cylinder holds too many rounds. I refuse to load only six. I would never do it in real life unless I only had six rounds left and that'd be a pretty odd occurrence seeing as my moonclips would have been all loaded at the ammo depot back at home.

can someone explain to me why people like IDPA so much that they continue to put up with this kind of stuff? Why not just shoot USPSA Production and call it good ...?

There are the "usual" reasons - "more realistic", "don't need no fancy race gun"... (<- Sarcasm) but I will tell you why it appeals to me.

Lower round count - The average 6 or 7 stage match is less than 130 rounds.

Less equipment - Only 3 mags, one mag holder, one multiuse belt, one holster, and one fancy fishing vest.

No Texas Star - Kidding (mostly).

I shoot USPSA with some regularity. I admit shooting SS makes my life harder but I need minimally 5 mags on my person and I get very frustrated at stages with min round counts in the mid 30s. I know I could shoot Limited and my main two gripes would go away.

?This guy is pretty much on point. I'd tell him to quit whining and try shooting revolver division, but now we have eight rounds. Oh well, quit whining you have 8+1.? I understand the mag carrier placement issue.

I am excited folks are getting out to shoot any way that they can and their choice of game doesn't concern me. I do believe they are all games and you should pursue the one that gives you the greater joy, gunbelt or fishing vest included.

[MilkMyDuds]

can someone explain to me why people like IDPA so much that they continue to put up with this kind of stuff? Why not just shoot USPSA Production and call it good ...?

In my 250-mile radius, there are at least 3 IDPA matches each weekend, while only 1 USPSA match per month and that's often canceled due to weather or other reasons.

[Tarkeg]

can someone explain to me why people like IDPA so much that they continue to put up with this kind of stuff? Why not just shoot USPSA Production and call it good ...?

I dont like it...i shoot USPSA 90% of the time. Some of my friends like it, so when I go to a IDPA match with my friends it is frustrating to have to change my gear around and put on a tac life fishing vest.

If you don't like it, don't shoot it. Problem solved.

[robport]

I have one IDPA match within 10 minutes of my house and another within 40 minutes (though the traffic sucks).

Both are run every two weeks.

I don't have even one USPSA match within 100 miles.

USPSA isn't a consideration for me right now.

[Jim Watson]

The rules have been adjusted. You can shoot NFC with anything you can get in a holster.

Many MDs are careless enough to enter NFCs in the scoring program so you can brag about beating people who shoot the regulation Divisions.

[Nimitz]

I get the "no USPSA nearby" issue but I think a lot of people would rather shoot a match then train (I know everyone's goals are different) but for me I'd rather spend the day training for USPSA then shoot an IDPA match ..... I have a very low "fustration tolerance" level and can't imagine spending my valuable free time doing things that annoy me ... even a little. And it seems to me that a lot of people who shoot IDPA are frustrated a lot of the time because of how the rules work ....

I could shoot an IDPA match every month at the same club where I shoot USPSA & Steel Challenge but choose to use that day for training instead because I know I would be very fustrated with the sport ....

[Jim Watson]

I wish more people were like you.

Too many would rather spread the annoyance by complaining about something they don't even do.

[mcb]

The rules have been adjusted. You can shoot NFC with anything you can get in a holster.

Many MDs are careless enough to enter NFCs in the scoring program so you can brag about beating people who shoot the regulation Divisions.

I don't understand this "hatred" for NFC. Not to call you out in particular Jim but I have seen this a few times here and over at the IDPA forum with regards to NFC. Why if you allow someone to shoot in the NFC division would you not keep score for them? It's just another division, one only recognized at club level, and one not recognized for awards.

Seems NFC is meant to help newbes and transfers from other sports get their feet wet in IDPA. Not scoring them is not encouraging them to want to come back, especially if you took their money. Score'em and show them what they need to do to get properly equipped to be in one of the division that will be recognized at higher level matches.

Also some of us shoot NFC occasionally because we have a favorite handgun that was once a legal IDPA handgun but is no longer IDPA legal.

Matt

Edited July 10, 2015 by mcb

[Malarkey]

I personally don't have a membership at a club or a range, so the only training that I can put in without having to get a lane at an indoor range is through dryfire and matches. Hince, another reason I shoot IDPA on occasion along with USPSA. Its more trigger time.

[Jim Watson]

I see a slippery slope in NFC, Matt.

New shooters with whatever they have that comes closest to spec, fine. Had a very nice man whose only handgun was a 6" revolver. We were snaking him in long before B'ville caught on.

Occasional outings with oddball guns, OK. But we had one guy who thought it was Kewl to shoot his FN 5.7 all the time instead of his Glock. He didn't understand why I would not score steel by ear when his needle blower wouldn't knock it down.

TRANSFERS from other sports testing the waters before they equip, good. Trigger timers who use my match for practice and then make fun of it on the boards, no.

Also, let's look at the spec for NFC:

8.2.7 Not For Competition (NFC)

8.2.7.1 IDPA encourages shooters to practice their gun handling skills with COMMONLY CARRIED FIREARMS. Many everyday carry firearms do not fit into the 6 competition divisions.

8.2.7.2 IDPA allows clubs to add a “Not for Competition” scoring division for Tier 1 matches only. This division allows cartridges smaller than 9 mm, CARRY OPTICS, activated lasers, non-illuminated mounted lights, and other pistols which do not fit into the other competition divisions to participate in local club matches.

8.2.7.3 All other IDPA equipment rules apply for holsters and loading device holders as well as their placement on the body.

Can I use that to keep out the race guns? I doubt it.

The business about holsters is roundly ignored, I assure you.

What have you got that used to be legit? A 5" revolver? Me, too, but I had it sawn off again.

Edited July 10, 2015 by Jim Watson

[Malarkey]

I think NFC should be scored, I see no reason not to. Why would you restrict the feedback to the participant in any situation except for a DQ or range equipment failure situations.

[Tarkeg]

Because all you have to do is hand them their score sheet, there's their feedback. Wanting to see their scores alongside everyone else (who are IDPA legal) is motivation to use legal equipment. NFC is not "another division" for people to play in indefinitely. In fact, it's the MD's choice to allow it in the first place.

[Forrest Halley]

NFC is bogus in restricting the capacity to ten rounds. If someone wants to bring their gun that doesn't "belong" in an approved division why castrate it when they are paying to have fun just like everyone else?

It's not right to act as though you are being wholly inconvenienced by someone's presence at the match that is not drinking the Koolaid and running a approved gun and still take their money.

I find it funny that good competition firearms are called NFC. Seems like it should be the other way round..no? It's the same arms race they tried to prevent in a different shaped box. Make everybody shoot from under an untucked button down shirt out of an IWB holster. Then you have yourself a concealed carry handgun match that's NFC.

[Malarkey]

Because all you have to do is hand them their score sheet, there's their feedback. Wanting to see their scores alongside everyone else (who are IDPA legal) is motivation to use legal equipment. NFC is not "another division" for people to play in indefinitely. In fact, it's the MD's choice to allow it in the first place.

I was under the impression that they were not givin a score sheet. If they get a score sheet with their time, penalty's etc. tallied up like everyone else then I think that is fine. What I don't understand, is when a person pays their entry fee and does not get the same feedback as the next guy. Yes their gun has a 4.5in bull barrel and not a 4.2....who cares. It's a local match. If it were nationals or if there were prizes involved then yeah, play by the rules or GTFO but there are no prizes...just pride and feedback on your shooting ability. Score them, and say NFC next to it. They paid the money and the rules allow it and they "Encourage it" which is straight from 8.2.7.1.

[v1911]

It's the "Not For Competition" division, not "Not For Score" division. It allows juniors to use a .22 as well as a full grown adult use an Open pistol and everything in between.

As embassadors of this sport, we need to get off of our high horse about what we feel is appropriate for the NFC division and encourage people to attend our sport. Is their money not as good as the person shooting ESP? My club has no qualms about scoring your stages and posting them along side everyone else that paid for the day.

I ran a .22 with an MRD for almost 2 months while having some work done on my primary gun. I've also taken my primary ESP gun and topped off the mags and ran NFC.

As an MD we should be encouraging people to shoot our sport. Not shun them because they shot something we don't personally don't agree with. If they want to ever shoot anything higher than a T1 match, they'll eventually settle into another division that is allowed.

Edited July 11, 2015 by v1911

[racknrider]

Holy hijack.

Well anyway, I like NFC. I think it gives people an intro to IDPA using gear they already have. We allow NFC at our matches and post their scores along with everyone else. Everyone at our matches know each other and who they're competing against and who they're not. I have only seen an NFC shooter maybe 3 or 4 times so I don't believe it will lead to the downfall of IDPA as long as it is treated according to the rules. However, I do not support unlimited mag capacity for NFC as that could be a slippery slope. If I take my Limited gun and start dominating matches because I don't have to reload I think others will follow suit. Run your gear, try to be as legal as possible and download mags and there should be little problem.

[v1911]

You don't get to choose what rules to enforce and which you don't. You also don't get the luxury of creating new ones to fit your needs. You don't allow NFC then place a capacity to it. There isn't a round limit and they don't have to fit a box. Now if someone wants to run an open gun at your local indoor match, I can see the MD and possibly the range owner having an issue with that.

As far as taking a gun from USPSA and dominating IDPA, I don't see that being apples to apples. Using your limited gun to win overall at a T1 match is a hollow victory. If people in your club have an issue with someone outside their division and classification beating them, that's a pride issue they can deal with.