d_striker Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 I just got a DA/SA gun for Production. Last night I forgot to lower the hammer at make ready and started the COF with hammer cocked and safety off. What is the ruling on this? Procedural? Re-shoot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Jones Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 DQ per 10.5.11.2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_striker Posted June 2, 2015 Author Share Posted June 2, 2015 DQ per 10.5.11.2 Thanks...I definitely won't be doing that again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktm300 Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 DQ per 10.5.11.2 +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gng4life Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 DQ per 10.5.11.2 Thanks...I definitely won't be doing that again. Make sure you are dryfiring at home before the match to build the muscle memory to do this and not even think about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_striker Posted June 2, 2015 Author Share Posted June 2, 2015 DQ per 10.5.11.2 Thanks...I definitely won't be doing that again. Make sure you are dryfiring at home before the match to build the muscle memory to do this and not even think about it. I actually have been doing it. I'm finding that once my heart starts pumping, I'm reverting back to how I used to do things with my old gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishsticks Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 DQ per 10.5.11.2 Yup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gng4life Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 DQ per 10.5.11.2 Thanks...I definitely won't be doing that again. Make sure you are dryfiring at home before the match to build the muscle memory to do this and not even think about it. I actually have been doing it. I'm finding that once my heart starts pumping, I'm reverting back to how I used to do things with my old gun. It's been stated by some that it takes about 10,000 hours of a motor skill to have it committed to the subconscious mind or wired in the brain, have you dryfired 10K hours yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southpaw Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 You didn't get DQed and the RO actually started you in that condition?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_striker Posted June 3, 2015 Author Share Posted June 3, 2015 DQ per 10.5.11.2 Thanks...I definitely won't be doing that again. Make sure you are dryfiring at home before the match to build the muscle memory to do this and not even think about it. I actually have been doing it. I'm finding that once my heart starts pumping, I'm reverting back to how I used to do things with my old gun. It's been stated by some that it takes about 10,000 hours of a motor skill to have it committed to the subconscious mind or wired in the brain, have you dryfired 10K hours yet? I haven't even had the gun for a fraction of that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAFO Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 One of the first matches I shot, I kind of freaked the RO out a little bit. He was used to seeing several shooters with their CZ 75B's slowly lowering their hammers by hand. I flicked the decocker on my 226 and the hammer flew forward. He initially thought I had pulled the trigger to lower the hammer! Once I explained what had happened, he calmed back down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gng4life Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 One of the first matches I shot, I kind of freaked the RO out a little bit. He was used to seeing several shooters with their CZ 75B's slowly lowering their hammers by hand. I flicked the decocker on my 226 and the hammer flew forward. He initially thought I had pulled the trigger to lower the hammer! Once I explained what had happened, he calmed back down. And that would worth the cost to buy a decocker model...I just may do that some day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas H Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 It's been stated by some that it takes about 10,000 hours of a motor skill to have it committed to the subconscious mind or wired in the brain, have you dryfired 10K hours yet? I haven't even had the gun for a fraction of that time. (Irrelevant nitpick because the number still means "a whole lot" but it is more commonly 10,000 reps of a motor skill, not 10,000 hours of a motor skill. Ok, moving on....) Yep, DQ. You got lucky. Something to remember about the make ready sequence---doing it quickly doesn't get you anything. So, take your time, take a couple of deep breaths, and make sure everything is set and ready to go. You don't need to do it fast, and you want to make sure you are completely set for the best stage of your life. So....doing each step deliberately and mindfully is a good idea. Might help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_striker Posted June 3, 2015 Author Share Posted June 3, 2015 It's been stated by some that it takes about 10,000 hours of a motor skill to have it committed to the subconscious mind or wired in the brain, have you dryfired 10K hours yet? I haven't even had the gun for a fraction of that time. (Irrelevant nitpick because the number still means "a whole lot" but it is more commonly 10,000 reps of a motor skill, not 10,000 hours of a motor skill. Ok, moving on....) Yep, DQ. You got lucky. Something to remember about the make ready sequence---doing it quickly doesn't get you anything. So, take your time, take a couple of deep breaths, and make sure everything is set and ready to go. You don't need to do it fast, and you want to make sure you are completely set for the best stage of your life. So....doing each step deliberately and mindfully is a good idea. Might help. Well, it's not really nitpicking as 10,000 hours is completely different than 10k reps. But I know what you meant. I don't think I was making ready fast. I think it was more a matter of breaking 10k reps of making ready with an XDm. In any case, I'm certain I'll never do it again. I'm not the type of individual that is afraid to admit his own mistakes. I just try to learn from them and move on. Hopefully, others will learn from this as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gng4life Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 It's been stated by some that it takes about 10,000 hours of a motor skill to have it committed to the subconscious mind or wired in the brain, have you dryfired 10K hours yet? I haven't even had the gun for a fraction of that time. (Irrelevant nitpick because the number still means "a whole lot" but it is more commonly 10,000 reps of a motor skill, not 10,000 hours of a motor skill. Ok, moving on....) Look up the book written by Malcolm Gladwell...his theory was 10,000 hours to master any skill and that has been used in several research projects since. Someone else mistook that later as 10,000 reps but that was not the original theory. I think that is a little crazy but that is what I was referring to. And I was really just being facetious ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gng4life Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 In any case, I'm certain I'll never do it again. I'm not the type of individual that is afraid to admit his own mistakes. I just try to learn from them and move on. Hopefully, others will learn from this as well? You are one hell of a person! Wish more were like you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 and the "10,000 hr rule" has also been loosely re translated into "10,000 hrs to become world class at some skill ..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 (edited) 1 hr of dryfire per day, 5 days a week for an entire year is 240 hrs. to get to "10,000 hrs to be world class" will only require 41.6 years of training .... one reason Olympic athletics practice a little longer then 1 hr a day .... for those of you who have read Lanny's book, in one chapter he causally mentioned that he trained 5 hrs/day on his quest to be a gold metalist .... there is just no way to short circuit time .... wormholes not withstanding of course Edited June 3, 2015 by Nimitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 (edited) there is just no way to short circuit time .... wormholes not withstanding of course there are lots of ways to short circuit time. Most really world-class athletes pretty much dominated their local scene immediately. Jim Ryun was under 4 mins in high school, Lance Armstrong was crushing people in triathlons at age 16. So plain old inherited natural abilities are a great shortcut. It's also really easy to waste time when training, or train bad habits. I am an expert at this. It seems like at least twice a year I figure out that I've been rushing my dryfire and getting sloppy with my sight pictures and trigger pulls, and then I have to back up and work on fundamentals again. Training the *right* things is a huge timesaver. I was dryfiring alot earlier this year, and one of the things it did was make me pretty lazy with the force of my grip. Now I'm on a reduced dryfire schedule, but intently focuses on making sure the grip is there for every drill. When my support hand gets tired, I stop. Improved results + less time = shortcut. (luckily I can use the extra time constructively, to do some load development, pull the blue handle, chamber-check and inspect all my match ammo, and otherwise think about shooting.) Edited June 4, 2015 by motosapiens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevepitt Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Just to add a little more- I was the RO and had just taken over the timer from another RO. So maybe I didn't have my "RO brain" engaged fully. I did not notice the hammer back and I DEFINITELY would have issued a DQ if I had noticed the safety wasn't engaged. I'm not a new RO, just lack of attention to detail. Lesson learned. My real point in replying was to call attention to D-Stiker's character. Imediately when the stage was finished, he let me know he started with the hammer back. It is shooter's with this type of integrity that is refreshing. FWIW, all of his remaining stages, started with hammer down! Steve Pitt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 ok, so this is slightly adrift of the the orginial topic but the last post just got me thinking .... what's the Statute of Limitations on DQs? the shooter commits a DQ offense ... no question but the RO doesn't see it when it happened but then the shooter tells the RO what he did .... now what? I know 'Arnold' said that he couldn't 'self-terminate' but can a shooter 'self-DQ'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gng4life Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Just to add a little more- I was the RO and had just taken over the timer from another RO. So maybe I didn't have my "RO brain" engaged fully. I did not notice the hammer back and I DEFINITELY would have issued a DQ if I had noticed the safety wasn't engaged. I'm not a new RO, just lack of attention to detail. Lesson learned. My real point in replying was to call attention to D-Stiker's character. Imediately when the stage was finished, he let me know he started with the hammer back. It is shooter's with this type of integrity that is refreshing. FWIW, all of his remaining stages, started with hammer down! Steve Pitt Thanks Steve! Coming out to clarify it some speaks to the good character you have also. We all miss a call every now and then so we'll all just learn from it. Thanks to both of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gng4life Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 ok, so this is slightly adrift of the the orginial topic but the last post just got me thinking .... what's the Statute of Limitations on DQs? the shooter commits a DQ offense ... no question but the RO doesn't see it when it happened but then the shooter tells the RO what he did .... now what? I know 'Arnold' said that he couldn't 'self-terminate' but can a shooter 'self-DQ'? Good question. Since there is no mention of statute of limitations, I would still say that unless the RO saw it, even if the competitor admitted to it or not, they should not issue a late DQ. Just about all sports are like that and this one isn't that much different. Also, I don't like the "self-DQ" thing since to me, that's impossible. You may quit and get a DNF or whatever but according to 8.3.5, the Stop has to be issued by the RO. If you are the competitor, you are obviously not the RO also. The next command is not asking a question (If you are finished...), it commanding you to do something (Unload and show clear) due to an issue. You have to be told this by the RO, not yourself. Again, my thought is if you stop yourself, it's technically a DNF. Also, under 7.1.1, the RO is the one who issues "penalties", a DQ is a type of penalty. I know people call it a "self-DQ" but I just don't buy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southpaw Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Just to add a little more- I was the RO and had just taken over the timer from another RO. So maybe I didn't have my "RO brain" engaged fully. I did not notice the hammer back and I DEFINITELY would have issued a DQ if I had noticed the safety wasn't engaged. I'm not a new RO, just lack of attention to detail. Lesson learned. My real point in replying was to call attention to D-Stiker's character. Imediately when the stage was finished, he let me know he started with the hammer back. It is shooter's with this type of integrity that is refreshing. FWIW, all of his remaining stages, started with hammer down! Steve Pitt Takes some guts to come on here and admit your mistake, good on you as well as d_striker for starting the thread. It's always good for ROs (and all shooters) to hear these stories when they happen to remind us of what can happen if we do miss something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinka Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 I'm curious, how many of you rack the slide and lower the hammer during dry fire. Curious because I hardly ever do, dummy rounds fill the mags but never put one in the chamber. I was also nervous about forgetting the lower the hammer on make ready but fortunately as of today have never had an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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