thinking about single stack, question on caliber

[andrewtac]

Currently a production Shadow shooter. Not ready to make the jump to limited, but SS does interest me. I was looking at a Trojan. What cal is common for most shooters? I was considering 40 so I could go minor for higher cap or major for the points.

[motosapiens]

Based on the matches I've been to, .45 is the most common caliber. I'd guess this is partly due to tradition and partly due to lots of people own 1911's in 45. They have the advantage that they run well even with factory ammo (if you could afford it).

Many serious competitors are shooting .40. These seem to be a bit more finicky but competition shooters don't seem to have any problem getting them ro run reliably. Many folks use the same ammo they use for their limited guns (40 loaded long for 2011's), which simplifies their lives a bit. I'm not convinced that 10-round 40 minor is really reliable, but I bet someone will say it is. 40 brass is a lot easier to come by than 45 if you're just getting started with it.

For matches other than SS nationals, some pretty smart folks are starting to think that 9mm is a good and competitive choice. I personally think 10-round minor is an advantage for most matches.

[andrewtac]

Those were my thoughts, just wanted to get some advice from those who do it. 10 rounds would also be as easier transition for me, same game plans as production.

I did think 40 was the answer, but thought 9 might be something to consider.

[Haraise]

I'd need to look at the reliability of 10 round .40 mags. I know of very reliable 8 round .45 and 10 round 9, but not 10 round .40.

[Jadeslade]

.40 cal SS guns are some of the most difficult guns to keep running. Get a .45

[jman93]

Get a .40. I've ran mine for around 2 years without a single malfunction and I only clean it about once every 3 or 4 matches. It just runs.

[andrewtac]

Get a .40. I've ran mine for around 2 years without a single malfunction and I only clean it about once every 3 or 4 matches. It just runs.

What model?

[ltdmstr]

.40 cal SS guns are some of the most difficult guns to keep running. Get a .45

This is absolutely not true. Just need one that's built right. Not many serious competitors shoot .45 any more, but the round count is the same as .40, so it's personal preference unless you want to shoot minor. As for major 40 v minor 9, check the results for the single stack nationals. I think of the top 20-25 maybe one or two shot minor.

[PatJones]

.40 cal SS guns are some of the most difficult guns to keep running. Get a .45

This is absolutely not true. Just need one that's built right. Not many serious competitors shoot .45 any more, but the round count is the same as .40, so it's personal preference unless you want to shoot minor. As for major 40 v minor 9, check the results for the single stack nationals. I think of the top 20-25 maybe one or two shot minor.

Bad example. Single stack nationals are designed to keep minor from having any advantage. Look at the area matches to get a better idea of major vs. minor.

[ltdmstr]

That's true. Most of the local matches have lots of 8-rounds strings, so the extra rounds are nice to have.

[wbyrd01]

If you check out this month's copy of Front Sight magazine you'll see that at the Area 2 Desert Classic there were a ton of SS shooters shooting minor. Having the extra two rounds was an advantage. I faced that same question as you, I chose a 9mm Kimber with plans on also making it shoot 40 so I can switch back and forth depending on the match.

[andrewtac]

.40 cal SS guns are some of the most difficult guns to keep running. Get a .45

This is absolutely not true. Just need one that's built right. Not many serious competitors shoot .45 any more, but the round count is the same as .40, so it's personal preference unless you want to shoot minor. As for major 40 v minor 9, check the results for the single stack nationals. I think of the top 20-25 maybe one or two shot minor.

I did a quick Google for 1911 40 10 round mags and some should up.

[wbyrd01]

Dawson sells them. Most of what I've read indicates 10mm mags are the way to go so you can load a little long.

[DanM]

Between 9 and 40 guys, I feel like the only 45 guy left.

[cheers623]

After having shot Single Stack with a .45 exclusively for the last 2 seasons and Limited for 8 years previously using .40...here's some thoughts. My primary Single Stack .45 this season started having numerous "issues" and my backup had to go back to the factory. 3 weeks before going to this Year's SS Nationals I panicked and bought an STI Trojan .40. I did a trigger job and started breaking it in and getting used to it. Long story short...I wish I'd done it years ago. Nothing wrong with .45 mind you. It's just that I'd logged so many rounds down range with my Limited .40, both Major and Minor that the new Trojan I'd bought felt like I was home again. I ended up using it at this year's SS Nationals and it ran without issues. Most of the higher classified shooters I squadded with shot .40 as well.

I used Wilson 10mm 9-round mags and they worked great. Most everyone else used Tripp 10mm 9 or 10 round "box-length" mags. I honestly only saw malfunctions with pistols in .45. That's most likely because the folks shooting .40 Single Stack guns are a little more "invested" in keeping their gear squared away. Maybe?

The ability to now switch back and forth between 8-round major or 10-round minor for club matches has me really intrigued and I'm in the process of retiring my .45 reloading components altogether. I got caught up in "custom" guns and gear for the Single Stack game and spent a lot of money. I really wished I'd kept my mind open years ago when the .40 Single Stack "thing" started catching on. I'd have saved a lot of money just getting a Trojan .40 and tweaking it to run 100%

YMMV but hope that helps,

Cheers623

DVC

[motosapiens]

The ability to now switch back and forth between 8-round major or 10-round minor for club matches has me really intrigued

I can switch back and forth too, but I get an excuse to own an extra gun (45 and 9mm). I win!!

I sort of understand the desire to try to get 1 gun to do 2 different things, but I like guns, so it makes sense to me to just buy more of them.

Edited May 12, 2015 by motosapiens

[kimberacp]

I too, was in the same situation as you, a year ago. I didn't want to let go of shooting 45, and I had a LBaer gun, I couldn't ask for more from this gun but really just in the price of brass alone, among factors, related to reloading components, was enough to make the switch, especially if you shoot Limited in 40sw. It just didn't make sense to continue.

Am glad I did. And I use the Tripp 9rd mags. Even when I had the 45, I used the Tripp magazines, awesome magazines, period! The 40sw magazines springs are somewhat thin, so just clean them often and replace the springs.

FWIW, I would just shoot one caliber and spend your money on supplies and focus on your shooting skills. Remember, shooting minor is really no advantage, unless your shooting all A's.

[glockmeister]

We recently had a match exclusively for 1911 only and majority of the shooters were shooting 9s and 45s. The shooters that shot 40s were having problems due to mag issues.

[motosapiens]

Remember, shooting minor is really no advantage, unless your shooting all A's.

or unless you can skip a standing reload, or use a more aggressive stage plan, or just shoot more aggressively on steel since you have extra rounds.

[andrewtac]

I don't plan on missing. I understand it is only two more rounds, but the above post were my thoughts. Having the option to chose will be nice, and at some point I'll see where I do better and stick with that method.

[2MoreChains]

I shot SS with a STI Trojan in .45 for my first couple of years in this game, then shot Limited for the next four years. Last year I wanted to get back into SS and decided to go .40 primarily for logistical reasons. I already have a boatload of .40 components, it basically the same load as my Limited gun, and at make-ready I don't need to use a barney mag to get 8+1. Is all that a big deal? Nope, just logistical convenience like I mentioned.

Finding the right .40 mags did take some experimenting. Initially I tried the 9 rnd Tripp Cobra .40 mag (flex follower and .40 mag body) and had a few issues with the followers popping out the top at slide lock. The .40 Tripp Cobras have a spacer inside which limits the OAL to about 1.160" (I like to load 1.180"). I even tried some Wilson ETMs in .45 with mixed results, and ended up getting the Tripp "Corey" mag which is basically a 10-rnd 10mm magazine with the Tripp hybrid follower. I haven't had any mag-related issues since I started using those and now recommend them to anybody who has a .40 1911.

I agree that .40 1911s can be a little finicky, but nothing that can't be resolved. The feed ramp as it came from Kart was too steep and my GS had to cut the angle back a little. Once he did that it ran like a champ. I've got maybe 7-8K thru the gun right now, and the weekend before SS Nats the elevation screw on my STI bomar rear sight sheared off while in a class. No biggy, I had spares (and I think the reason it broke was the set screw got loose). Then on Thursday of SSN on Stage 3 my barrel link broke mid-way thru the stage. Fortunately I had the .45 Trojan plus mags and ammo in my buddy's truck so was able to swap out guns and shot the remaining 12 stages with the old fo-five. Other than caliber the two guns are pretty much set up the same (sights, trigger, feel) so no real issues other than bombing Stage 3. On Friday while hanging out at the range I ran into Jason Chandless, the gunsmith from the Springfield Armory Custom Shop and he hooked me up with a new barrel link. He also gave the gun a once-over and said he didn't see any reason why the link broke and suspected just a bad part.

I'm hoping this is the last of the problems for a while with the .40 gun because I really like it. I shot some SC last night with it and it ran just fine with the new barrel link, and plan on shooting it at the Sectional match at the end of May and Area 1 in June. Though the .45 Trojan will also be making the trip as the back-up gun...

[zzt]

andrewtac, before I made up my mind, I'd consider how the courses you shoot are laid out and what your experience is. Do you often need more than 8 shots to complete a sub-stage in Production?. SS is popular around me and the majority shoot 45ACP. As long as they don't entirely miss a target and have to do a standing reload, I don't see them as being at a disadvantage having only 8 rounds. They usually do better in the overall than the Limited shooters. If they felt they were at a disadvantage with 8 rounds, they could shoot Limited 10 instead.

The reason is that the courses I shoot on are set up with the 8 round SS guys in mind AND wary of the Open guys. They always space the sub-stages out and put lots of no-shoots up so the Open guys cannot stand in one place and shoot everything. You have to move, and usually a fair distance. So there really is no instance, other than some qualifiers, where you don't have a lot of time for a running mag change.

Then there is the cost consideration. Where I shoot you cover a lot of ground on each stage and shoot seven stages on seven different ranges. There is no time to pick up your brass, because it would take too long to find it and they want to run a lot of people through quickly. So I'm going to lose 180-200 brass at each shoot, assuming I don't have to reshoot a stage. 200 cleaned and polished 40sw once fired costs me $8 and I can get lots of it. 9mm would be very slightly less. 200 45ACP cost me $17, so I only shoot that on ranges where I can recover the bulk of it.

Caliber: I personally feel that 40sw is much more flexible and gives you more options than 9mm. You can use 140 or 155gr bullets if you want a 9mm Minor equivalent load. You can shoot 165-180gr for either Minor or Major. These are superior for knock down plate and pin matches.

If you decide on 9mm, I wouldn't buy the Trojan. I'd go with the Springfield Range Officer or equal instead. If 40, your choices are more limited.

BTW, you shoot Limited the same way you would shoot Production, except you have fewer mag changes. 20-21 in a mag is a hoot. You do one mag change per stage, unless you fumble a reload. So you can get by with just three mags and pouches instead of the five or six the Production guys carry.

Edited May 12, 2015 by zzt

[kimberacp]

as stated above, ramp angle, plus extractor tuning are probably the most common issues with the 40 single stack guns. I agree also, as stated above "the 40sw is much more flexible than the 9mm."

[andrewtac]

Yep, not convinced I'll shoot minor but it sounds like a Trojan in 40 will run and I can decide then. I have used more than 8 rounds in mt mags on numerous stages, sometimes less. Again having the option would be nice. Likely I will settle on one method.

[motosapiens]

Yep, not convinced I'll shoot minor but it sounds like a Trojan in 40 will run and I can decide then. I have used more than 8 rounds in mt mags on numerous stages, sometimes less. Again having the option would be nice. Likely I will settle on one method.

When shooting production, I rarely get through our 6 stage local match without going to 9 or 10 rounds (before make-ups) a couple times. It also allows me to shoot much more aggressively on steel without risking a standing reload for 1 miss.