AikiDale Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 "We" do not "have" a life. "We" do not "own" a life. Life is not a thing to be possesed. Life is way cool. Yeah! That's what I'm talking about! Akai, what does it mean? YMMV? Great point about arrogance, Duane. It is indeed arrogant of us to judge others choices. Could arrogance also be the driving force behind the belief that "It's my life and my choice"? I wonder about this since I am at times, greatly arrogant. (as well as ignorant) At my core, I really don't want to control anything. I just want to ride and go WOW, this is so cool! But "fear and loathing" is constantly being created by my own mind as it battles with my soul for control of my true existence. That is why I so love being "in the zone". No conflict exists for me there. See you in the zone. Sam, YMMV is internet shorthand for Your Milage May Vary. I tend to use it in place of IMHO, i.e., In My Humble Opinion because my opinions are seldom humble enough. I'm still stumped by BTT? Great post Duane. Arrogance in the extreme. I am reminded of a line from Dances with Wolves. Indians were discussing Kosner's arrival. One really wanted to go kill him, and another, being ever so polite prefaced his remarks saying something like "One man can not tell another what to do..." Should an individual determine suicide is 'right' or 'wrong' for himself is a daily decision which has no bearing on anothers choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemo Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 If I could eloquently express in English how I feel on the subject, it would read somewhat as a mix of Siggy and Mr. Sunshine's posts. Oh, and to mi amigo BigD, It is not ok to kill one another or animals that we don't intend to eat or have a need to control their populations. Then again, that's just my opinion. Live! N Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDave Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 The ironic thing about suicide, to me, is that the right and wrong argument is only had by the living. This discussion only happens so that we, the living, can rationalize and arrive at understanding about a decision made by another. I think that we need to be respectful of the Good Doctor's decision. It may not be right for you, but it wasn't your decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 Everybody dies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 Everybody Hurts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carinab Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 This is a great thread...very insightful...I'm reading along, engaging all those philospical ideas with my grey matter, and then just to bring it back to the reality of right NOW ...BAM... The Erik perspective. I don't know if you meant to make a funny, but I started laughing. Aiki started it. Dave flavored it. Flex said it succinctly and Erik put it in perspective. Everybody does everything aka there is nothing new under the sun. If you haven't seen it before, take notes and get ready to see it again. There are a whole bunch of us walking the planet with a whole bunch of different ideas. But in the end, none of us really knows the truth outside our own skin. And most times we're unsure about that. Maybe Doug Adams has it right and the answer to life is 42. Personally, I commit suicide slowly through life style choices. As for me when I eventually go, I hope to do it with grace, dignity, and a splash of style. And I hope there is a hell of a party aftwards! My grandmother taught me that. Don't mourn that I'm gone, be glad that I lived! Attachment feels fine, detachment is what hurts. Learn to say a good goodbye and get on with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kory Posted February 25, 2005 Share Posted February 25, 2005 I cherish my freedom. Freedom to live my life as I see fit. That probubly includes freedom to stop living, if so desired. Yes, it is selfish. It is something somebody does entirely for themselves, not for anyone else. I honestly can't imagine the mindset of a suicidal individual, I doubt any of us really can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg G Posted February 25, 2005 Share Posted February 25, 2005 I simply cannot believe what has been posted on this thread, of course I don't decree that I know what is better for others on a regular basis either. Two thumbs up and a high five for Duane's post I had a rant all written up but I would just get myself in trouble if I was to post it, have to respect others views you know. The ironic thing is what has been posted in a supposed existentialist thread, pretty damn funny when you think about it, I'm sure Thompson would be laughing his butt off if he were reading it; while drunk and toting a firearm of course... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted February 25, 2005 Author Share Posted February 25, 2005 GregG Well, they spun this off of another thread and while I am shown as the originator of this topic....I did not start it...so if it wanders from the existentialist views a bit, that is the reason... There lots of good ideas expressed here, but it is also very obvious to me that we, as humans have many failings and among those is the ability to understand what is in anothers heart and mind...having said that, each of us is allowed to form and express our own opinion...that is what makes this country and this forum great... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted February 26, 2005 Share Posted February 26, 2005 If we really believe in God's teachings and that God is the Way, the Truth and the Life, and commit our presence to doing God's will while we are here on earth What if we don't? And decide to shoulder the responsibility for developing our own code of conduct instead of buying one pre-wrapped? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDave Posted February 26, 2005 Share Posted February 26, 2005 Thanks, Duane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geezer-lock Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 The last bit Hunter wrote for ESPN was "Shotgun Golf" and should be of interest to shooters everywhere: http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?id=1992213 geezer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 Wow...I had alomost eactly the same conversation when an old friend of mine from the Air Force Base wanted me to come out and shoot in a golf outing that they were having. I don't golf much...at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiG Lady Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 BTT = "back to the top" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 If we really believe in God's teachings and that God is the Way, the Truth and the Life, and commit our presence to doing God's will while we are here on earth, how can we as one of God's creatures assume we have the knowledge and forsight to understand when God is finished with us doing his work and take our own life...Talk about gross arrogance...to even begin to think we understand better what we need, more than our Father in Heaven.. No, he did not make us all the same with the same gifts to offer, but snuffing out our own light without considering what the impact on our fellow humans might be after we are gone, and without getting the greenlight from the Big Guy above, seems to me, to be the ultimate slap in the face...saying in effect that our feelings, love and interaction do not matter and that the person also says that he has given up on God to direct his life and that he now thinks that he knows more about what to do with his life than God the Father... And that folks is supreme BS.... All right, I'm late in coming to the thread but I have a few things to say. I was going to quote TL's opening post --- but this one workds too ---- and for the record, I'm not trying to pick on ya personally, Wink; I just think I can add some insight into the state of mind of some suicidal persons. My better half spent thirteen months in such a bitter depression about eight years ago, that she couldn't work and didn't want to do much else. At her lowest point during that time period, she spent several months in my company 24-7. That's right --- I had to take her to work every day, because she only felt safe with me, and it was a way to control her environment and keep her from committing suicide. What precipitated my taking her to work, was coming home one day, to discover a cereal bowl full of pills sitting on the kitchen counter. I asked Carol about it, and she replied that she'd planned on taking all of them to see if they would kill her pain. I asked her why she'd changed her mind, and she said she hadn't. I'd apparently called her and distracted her. Thank goodness that short term memory is one of the first things to go in depression. Having talked to her at length, about depression she described it like this: Imagine a cone shaped coil spring. In a major depression, the patient's thought patterns run in circles, that keep getting tighter and tighter, not allowing outside thoughts in to disrupt the circle, until the loop gets so tight that suicide seems the only way to esape from that particular hell. When I asked her how she thought her death would affect me, she replied that she thought it would offer me a chance to find happiness, since she couldn't see how being with her in her present state could be anything but miserable. (Changing her "present state" was not on her menu of options --- she literally couldn't see a way out of the spiral tunnel she was in.) I've read a fair amount about how hardened criminals think of their prey --- and I totally don't get how another human can develop those thought patterns. I'm aware that they exist though --- and can tailor my responses appropriately, should I encounter one. I think it's the same thing, only slightly different, dealing with a clinically depressed person. So here's the crux of it, if you're still reading: I'm not sure that we can condemn someone as selfish, who has no intellectual capacity to see outside of the self. In essence, the clinically depressed person is delusional until successfully treated with medication, much like a hypo-glycemic diabetic is unconscious until they get an ampule of 50% dextrose injected by a paramedic. In Carol's case we got extremely lucky ---- after eight months or so of unsuccessful treatment by a psychiatrist and a psychologist, her employer changed insurance plans. That forced us to find her a new psychiatrist --- an extremely competent expert on psycho-pharmaceuticals, who put together a cocktail of antidepressants and anti-anxiety meds that restored her to sanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted February 28, 2005 Author Share Posted February 28, 2005 Duane and Big Dave Conventional religion isn't for everyone...I will be the first to admit that, however, it is my personal belief that each of us needs something bigger than we are to believe in, to place our trust in, to have faith in...believing that a more powerful, loving, caring, knowing, being is in charge gives me the courage to go on...makes me think that I can stumble a bit and it will still be OK in the long run...and that he sent his son to die for my sins and that thru believing in Him, I will get to Heaven... If you don't...where does that leave you?.... As I said, it is not for everyone, but then, almost nothing is..you have to believe in and do what works for you...did not mean to step on anyone's toes here...it is just my opinion... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geezer-lock Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 Wow...I had alomost eactly the same conversation when an old friend of mine from the Air Force Base wanted me to come out and shoot in a golf outing that they were having. I don't golf much...at all. When asked if I play golf I always reply: "I shot a little golf once but I couldn't decide if the 12 or the 20 gauge was the better choice. Didn't seem to matter, because no amount of cooking makes them fit to eat." geezer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemo Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 Duane and Big DaveConventional religion isn't for everyone...I will be the first to admit that, however, it is my personal belief that each of us needs something bigger than we are to believe in, to place our trust in, to have faith in...believing that a more powerful, loving, caring, knowing, being is in charge gives me the courage to go on...makes me think that I can stumble a bit and it will still be OK in the long run...and that he sent his son to die for my sins and that thru believing in Him, I will get to Heaven... If you don't...where does that leave you?.... As I said, it is not for everyone, but then, almost nothing is..you have to believe in and do what works for you...did not mean to step on anyone's toes here...it is just my opinion... Yes folks... what he said. Thanx Mr. Sunshine! GB BigD, you said it best, "Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather a skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, martini in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO-HOO what a ride!" Ride it all the way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
short_round Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 Everyone follows their own destiny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barlin Posted March 1, 2005 Share Posted March 1, 2005 Emotions are temporal but choices can be permanant. Barlin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreblePlink Posted March 4, 2005 Share Posted March 4, 2005 I don't know the details and motivation behind Thompson's decision, and I hesitate to condemn his action without those facts. When you’re young and healthy it’s easy to be righteous and denounce suicide. Later in life, when you’ve watched a close friend or family member die a slow, agonizing, and painful death (in the case of my father at age 62, myeloma – bone cancer) only because of laws preventing a more peaceful and dignified passing, you might begin to consider that there are certain situations where the individual may be better off with an early exit. It seems to me to be more of a personal thing, and for another person, it’s certainly none of my business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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