major or minor

[dervin]

im getting back into IPSC shooting and buying a new Trojan which caliber .40 or 9mm .Its been a while since I shot last .Just wondering which way I should go thanks in advance .

[Hi-Power Jack]

If you're shooting Single Stack, I'd go with the .45,

shooting major power factor.

Unless you prefer the 9mm shooting minor -

less expensive to shoot, less recoil - but you will

be losing some points when the score is tallied.

I'm not sure what advantage the .40 brings to the

table - I'm sure others will chime in with all the

advantages of a .40, but I can't think of any for

this application.

Just my opinion (what you asked for) - hope it's

worth what you paid for it.

[zzt]

Here are my two cents. If those are your only two choices, go with 40. You can make a soft shooting Major load, and a Minor load around 140PF actually feels softer than a 9mm. The only disadvantage is you are limited to a single brand of 10-round mags.

That being said, if you decide to shoot Major only, 45ACP is the way I would go. It gives you a lot more flexibility, especially with 10-round mags. You can shoot Minor with a 45, but in my pistols I can't get the consistency I want until I get up around 150PF.

Added after I read gng4life's post: If reloading expense is a consideration, 40 brass is a nickle cheaper than 45 brass. You are going to lose a bunch. Where I shoot, you lose it all.

Edited April 23, 2015 by zzt

[gng4life]

The extra 2 rounds you get with 9mm is nice but you have to shoot a lot of Alphas to keep your score up. The .40 has a slight edge of the .45 in my opinion in that it is generally cheaper to load, just look at bullet prices to see what I mean. If you already had a .45, I would say just shoot but since you are buying, I would go with the .40. However, I do have a Spartan in 9mm when I shot SS for a while and it does help with stage planning, you just have to get a lot of Alphas.

[gdboytyler]

Even though Ben Stoeger doesn't shoot single stack, he has an interesting podcast debating major vs minor for SS. In summary, he recommended shooting minor to get the extra rounds to prevent standing reloads and to be able to shoot stages more aggressively.

I tend to agree with Ben, unless you're doing an all classifier match, then shooting major would be better.

[zzt]

In the last match I shot, only three of the top 10 in SS shot Minor. If you want the extra rounds and Major, shoot Limited 10 instead. That you can do with 40 or 45.

dervin, consider your choice from another angle. What else do you want to shoot, what other pistols do you have, and do you reload?

If you have your heart set on competing in a specific division, buy the pistol/caliber that best meets that divisions requirements.

If you are going to shoot factory, buy the 9mm. Use 115gr for the speed games and 147gr for pins and steel you must knock over.

For steel challenge and all similar games where speed wins and you only have to ring the steel to score, Minor or sub-minor PF rules.

For intermediate type games like Pins, Polish Spinner, Texas Star, or where you have to actually knock over steel, either will do, but Major gives you a leg up. For pins you have to knock them over and they have to hit the ground to count. So you get a huge advantage using a heavier, slower bullet. A 147gr 9mm will work, but a 180-230gr bullet @ 170PF in 40 or 45 works much, much better. The same applies to knock over/down steel. When I shot 9mm I'd often have to double tap poppers to get them down quickly, even with the 147gr and high hits. Same with the spinners. A marginal hit requires a follow up shot with 9mm, but not with 40 or 45.

For USPSA, speed counts more than anything else. I'm a pretty good shot. I'm usually at the top or one down on target points scored. A typical stage for me would be 25 alpha and 5 charlie. Those 5 charlies put me 5 points down from perfect. If I was shooting Minor I'd be 10 points down. So you have to ask yourself if shooting Minor will improve your times enough to more than make up for the scoring penalty. The worse you shoot, the faster you have to go to make it up. I lose because I'm slow. At 67 I just cannot run as fast as the 20-30 somethings. On a long stage with lots of ground to cover, they are 6-10 seconds faster and win, even though their hits were no where near as good.

If you want to shoot bullseye, you'll need a 45.

I started with a 1911 in 45ACP. I shot it for everything, because it was the only pistol I had. When I decided to shoot IDPA and USPSA type shoots, I compromised on a 9mm. It was a mistake for several of the reasons I outlined above. I sold the pistol and went back to shooting the 45. It worked, but I was at a severe disadvantage with mag capacity. Nowadays, with USPSA SS and 10-round mags legal for L10, 45 is not so much at a disadvantage as it once was. However, I had already bought a 40. 20-round mags are a huge help. I now know from experience that a 40 180gr bullet @ 140PF knock pins and steel over way better than a 140PF 9mm does, and I can shoot Major when needed.

You are going for a 1911, so 10 rounds is your limit. However, the other considerations still apply. So I'll recommend again. Think about what you want to shoot and buy the best match.

Edited April 23, 2015 by zzt

[PatJones]

I feel single stack is the one division where minor has the potential to play evenly.

Stage design makes a big difference, and many stages favor major or minor. If there are a lot of partial targets or long shots on paper, major is at an advantage. Lots of steel obviously gives a minor shooter two extra misses in their gun. An unloaded table start with 8 round positions makes for a lot of slide-lock reloads with a major caliber single stack.

A minor caliber single singlestack has extra ammunition in it. This seems obvious, but it seems to me you would need to work on additional skills to make maximum use of it. If I call a marginal shot from my sights I rarely have the extra ammunition available to make up the shot. If I was shooting minor I would train myself so that making up a marginal shot was automatic. What slows me down shooting major is the respect I need to show each target., If you can makeup marginal shots instantly from your sights, this may allow you to push harder and gain time.

In the overall results at our local matches, the single stack shooters are often beaten by production shooters of a similar classification. I think minor can be competitive, but I don't think you should train to shoot it the same way as major gun.

[motosapiens]

I feel single stack is the one division where minor has the potential to play evenly.

Stage design makes a big difference, and many stages favor major or minor. If there are a lot of partial targets or long shots on paper, major is at an advantage. Lots of steel obviously gives a minor shooter two extra misses in their gun. An unloaded table start with 8 round positions makes for a lot of slide-lock reloads with a major caliber single stack.

Yes, stage design is huge. I've shot a little of both so far this year, and shooting major has definitely hurt me at a couple matches that featured 8 rounds of tight steel shots in a single position. One standing reload in a situation like that costs me the same as the minor penalty for 10 or so charlies, which is often about how many charlies I have for local match.

Otoh, some stages have more paper and easy steel and movement and partials where there is room to reload and good reasons to accept less of a sight picture and take som charlies if you are shooting major. I personally am shooting major until SS nats, then switching to minor for the rest of the major matches I'm doing. The reason for that is that the stage design at nats is very major-friendly, whereas most other non-ss-specific matches are more friendly to production/ss-minor.

Of course the more consistent you are at going 1-1 on difficult steel shots, the better major should work for you.

[zzt]

So I'll ask again. Pat and moto, if you feel that way, why shoot SS when you can shoot L10 and make major. I love 1911s and mine run flawlessly with my modified 10-round Wilson mags (45ACP). I know several who shoot their 45s in L10 and have a ball. It's like Production but Major.

[gng4life]

I feel single stack is the one division where minor has the potential to play evenly.

Stage design makes a big difference...

See, this was my thinking when I got my 9mm SS but I have been told on numerous occasions, on the range and here, that Major is the way to go for SS. Maybe I didn't make a bad decision after all Too bad I don't shoot SS anymore.

[PatJones]

So I'll ask again. Pat and moto, if you feel that way, why shoot SS when you can shoot L10 and make major. I love 1911s and mine run flawlessly with my modified 10-round Wilson mags (45ACP). I know several who shoot their 45s in L10 and have a ball. It's like Production but Major.

Several reasons.

Singlestack nationals is back to back with revolver. I intend to shoot both in 2016.

There isn't much competition in my area in L10. Singlestack offers 3-4 guys that can beat me at any match.

After 3 years shooting an 8-shot minor revolver, first in L10 and last year in revo, having an extra one up the pipe feels like cheating already.

I may get some 10 round mags, but it's not high on the priority list.

[motosapiens]

So I'll ask again. Pat and moto, if you feel that way, why shoot SS when you can shoot L10 and make major. I love 1911s and mine run flawlessly with my modified 10-round Wilson mags (45ACP). I know several who shoot their 45s in L10 and have a ball. It's like Production but Major.

L10 generally has no competition in free states. I did shoot L10 nationals a couple years ago, and had great fun. I would shoot L10 happily if it was more popular locally. I do definitely prefer 10 round mags to 8-round (probably from shooting L10 and production for a few years).

The thing I like about ss is that I think it's very comparable to production, and there's always some good production shooters at our local matches and usually a handful of A-class or better ss shooters as well.

[zzt]

Interesting. In the last match I shot, 5 of the 75 shooters chose to shoot L10 even though we are in a free State. 3 Minor, 2 Major. Production with 25 and Limited with 23 were the most popular.

[motosapiens]

Interesting. In the last match I shot, 5 of the 75 shooters chose to shoot L10 even though we are in a free State. 3 Minor, 2 Major. Production with 25 and Limited with 23 were the most popular.

Sounds like you are agree that L10 is totally unpopular. I'm guessing the folks that were shooting L10 were not folks at the top of the overall either. Usually it's folks who have a full-sized 40 or 45 that doesn't hold enough to be competitive in limited and either isn't legal for production or they don't want to download to minor. Like cops shooting their duty guns.

[dervin]

well im gonna take all this advice to thought so thanks for the the help

[zzt]

Not at all moto. The GM in Production took 1st, the M took second. The top SS Major shooter took 3rd, followed by the top open shooter, and then the top L10 shooter (Major). Even the 2nd place L10 shooter, a Junior shooting Minor placed in the top 10 and beat everyone in Limited.

If I didn't already have a hicap Limited gun for other reasons, I'd shoot L10 with my trusty 1911 45ACP and have a ball doing it.

[JWard79]

Major or minor is related to the caliber you choose. You can always download a major caliber to minor, but cannot shoot a minor caliber in major. With that said 9mm will limit you to minor only, whereas 40/45 can be shot in either major/minor. When considering the division requirements, the 40 is the only caliber that can meet the dimensions of the box in both major and minor when you factor in the length of the magazine. If you use Tripp magazines, the only thing you would need to change aside from magazine capacity would be the recoil spring. This would allow you to use one gun to shoot major/minor SS and L10, as apposed to multiple guns.

In the end it really boils down to what you want to shoot. The 40 gives you the most options, but may not be the optimal cartridge for any one division. However, if you take the time to tune both the load and the gun to the division it will be more than adequate in any division you choose to shoot.

I looked into this when deciding between calibers, and opted for 40. The reason I choose 40 over 9/45 had to do with divisions available with the gun, loading a round that doubles in a limited gun, & not having to worry about large pistol Primmer purchase/reloading configuration changes. I shoot 9/40 which means I don't have to worry about checking 45 brass for large or small primer pockets, and I don't have to purchase a caliber specific primer.

There are plenty of GMs that shoot 40 SS and a few national championships have been won with this setup, so I don't think this is something that is holding anyone back. The major/minor debate is likely dependent on the match, but the current setup at nationals favors major.

[2MoreChains]

I went .40 last year in SS primarily for logistical reasons. I also shoot Limited with a .40 2011 so can use the same ammo and .40 components are slightly cheaper. I also don't have to change the shell holder or primer bar on my 550 when switching between .40 and 9mm (which is the other caliber I shoot a lot in Prod, 3-gun, or SC). Making ready is also easier, load 9 in the first mag and rack. No need to barney.

Like I said, its mainly logistical reasons. But I suppose the other part of all that is after shooting Limited for a couple of years I found I liked the recoil of .40 more than .45 (snap vs a push).

That said, a 9mm 1911 is just fun to shoot... I may have to get one at some point to round out the collection.

I also agree, stage design can have a big impact on deciding between major or minor in SS.

[motosapiens]

So, let me get this straight, this is a gun-oriented site, and we are gun/shooting enthusiasts, and some of y'all are trying to make a case for buying *fewer* guns? You are totally doing it wrong.

[racknrider]

I'm with Moto. I buy a new gun, then figure out which division I can shoot to justify my new gun purchase.

[gng4life]

So, let me get this straight, this is a gun-oriented site, and we are gun/shooting enthusiasts, and some of y'all are trying to make a case for buying *fewer* guns? You are totally doing it wrong.

Im switching divisions just so I can justify a new purchase [emoji1]

[MrPostman]

If you shoot all As then it doesn't matter if you are shooting major or minor PF. Plus the gun is easier to control shooting minor PF and you have a capacity advantage as well. Let the comments begin lol!

[Ultimo-Hombre]

So, let me get this straight, this is a gun-oriented site, and we are gun/shooting enthusiasts, and some of y'all are trying to make a case for buying *fewer* guns? You are totally doing it wrong.

Im switching divisions just so I can justify a new purchase [emoji1]

I switched to open just to justify a 10k shooting expenditure!

[Quag]

you guys are bumming me out I just bought a new SW 1911 9mm Pro. Its my first 1911. It looks like I get penalized in USPSA as I'm stuck in the SS minor division. well at least my 9mm reloads will fit in all my pistols ie 1911, glocks and rugers. Maybe I'll just have to buy another 1911 in 45 or 40, if my wife finds out...........well I'm not going to talk about that

[Jadeslade]

In the latest Front Sight about the World Shoot, there was an interesting description by TGO and Todd Jarrett about deciding to shoot SS (Classic) in minor because of stage design. They were prepared to shoot Major as well. Most shooters who shoot .40 in SS that I know do it for two reasons-reloading set up, and seating a full 8 round .40 mag is decidedly easier than a full 8 round .45 mag. It has been common knowledge that a SS in .40 is harder to keep running smoothly than .45. Some are better than others at doing this. TGO uses .40, Nils uses .40, Dave Sevigny won the SS Nats with .45. I had a Trojan in .45, was nice gun. I won it, so I sold it. If I had to pick I would choose the 9mm, for all the reasons noted above, plus selling it is easier. And most women prefer the 9mm SS, if that's a consideration ion your house!