2015 Benelli Rockcastle Tactical Shotgun Match

[Jesse Tischauser]

Spun plates are gay. No more PC way to say it. Our squad had at least five spin. IMHO the best way to handle them in the U.S. Of A is to give the shooter the benefit of the doubt and let the shooter decide if they want to count it as hit or take a reshoot. After all it is the shooter who is the customer and is paying to play. Walmart would give a reshoot.

With that said using IPSC rules in the USA isn't someting I would ever take on as an MD/RM.

Edited August 10, 2015 by Jesse Tischauser

[kurtm]

So well spoken, so poorly typed! ( like I'm one to talk, hehehe). Here is the dichotomy of small steel plates....like Mr. T so aptly points out!!!

We accept a bullet that breaks a perf on a paper target no matter how minor the "perf break" on HUGE scoring zones. On a much smaller steel plate we say a bullet/shot that performs enough energy transfer to "move" this little tiny plate.....I.e. MUCH MORE THAN BREAK A PERF ON A MUCH LARGER SCORING AREA PAPER TARGET.......A .. MISS????? A spun target has been HIT!!! Might even be a good hit depending on the base design! That is why ALL the targets being discussed ARE ILLEGAL IPSC TARGETS!! Jesse and I completly agree!!! A Spun plate called a miss is B.S.

Edited August 10, 2015 by kurtm

[kurtm]

Too much Booker's...double post.

Edited August 10, 2015 by kurtm

[Jesse Tischauser]

Too much Booker's...

No such thing.

[Benelli Chick]

So well spoken, so poorly typed! ( like I'm one to talk, hehehe). Here is the dichotomy of small steel plates....like Mr. T so aptly points out!!!

We accept a bullet that breaks a perf on a paper target no matter how minor the "perf break" on HUGE scoring zones. On a much smaller steel plate we say a bullet/shot that performs enough energy transfer to "move" this little tiny plate.....I.e. MUCH MORE THAN BREAK A PERF ON A MUCH LARGER SCORING AREA PAPER TARGET.......A .. MISS????? A spun target has been HIT!!! Might even be a good hit depending on the base design! That is why ALL the targets being discussed ARE ILLEGAL IPSC TARGETS!! Jesse and I completly agree!!! A Spun plate called a miss is B.S.

"Jesse and I completely agree" - the world might be ending!!! Worse still...I agree with BOTH of you! Crap!

[MarkCO]

I agree with Jesse too, and while I agreed to use the IPSC ruleset, I doubt I will again. There are better ways to skin the cat and accomplish the goals I was given to meet. Target package has an effect as well, one reason I like the press pipes used at Nordic. Can't be spun and always the same.

[Jesse Tischauser]

I agree with Jesse too, and while I agreed to use the IPSC ruleset, I doubt I will again. There are better ways to skin the cat and accomplish the goals I was given to meet. Target package has an effect as well, one reason I like the press pipes used at Nordic. Can't be spun and always the same.

I really like those THIN wall pipes too for shotgun targets. The THICK wall pipes can suck it! Edited August 10, 2015 by Jesse Tischauser

[MarkCO]

6c is a precursor to section 8 of the appendix which discusses what options a competitor has if a target doesn't fall.

8c states the competitor can request the target be "tested"

if the target was tested (which it sounds like is what happened), and not done so in accordance with 6c, then it wasn't a proper test.

The target was moved by a match official prior to a proper test conducted so a reshoot should have been ordered.

I feel so lawyery.

Hopefully I only get the opportunity to be a competitor and food eater in Italy.

That is pretty close. I was informed that provided the gun is in the same position, the target tester is not required to replicate a difficult shooting position. The target was not moved though. Edited August 10, 2015 by MarkCO

[Bryan 45]

As I told Mark, I thought the stages were about as good as could be given the confines of the IPSC rules. My favorite was probably the big buckshot stage too. But for short stages, I also enjoyed the 9 round buck stage (#3?) and the 10 round slug stage at Cowboy town. Some of the weird position shooting can be especially tough with a pump shotgun, even more so when you're only 5' tall, but I enjoy the challenge behind it.

It was great seeing so many of our local shooters volunteering to work a major, as well as some of Rockcastle's staff and family working the match. And I will admit I'm easy to please, but the smoked chicken that was on the buffet on Thursday night was absolutely delicious. I'm talking fancy restaurant, cloth napkins, serving wine instead of beer delicious. Thank you to all those who work to make our experiences enjoyable.

I'm not much for self-promotion, but I was one of only 3 shooters in the match that shot stage 7 without a MIKE. Of course, it took me almost 2x as long as Taran to do it. And that was after coming up with 5 MIKES on stage 14- which was our first stage of the match. I guess I got them all out of the way early.

Edited August 10, 2015 by Bryan 45

[Jesse Tischauser]

. I'm not much for self-promotion, but I was one of only 3 shooters in the match that shot stage 7 without a MIKE. Of course, it took me almost 2x as long as Taran to do it. And that was after coming up with 5 MIKES on stage 14- which was our first stage of the match. I guess I got them all out of the way early.

Funny how we learn so quickly. Our squad started on 7 and acquired a LOT of slug misses. After seeing the damage a slug miss does to your score we all reduced the % of misses when we shot 14. I have vowed never to shoot IPSC shotgun again but if I forget and sign up next time pan am comes to town. Remind me how costly slug misses are please.

Edited August 10, 2015 by Jesse Tischauser

[Petshopshooter]

I thought this was a great match! Big thanks to Mark and everyone that had a hand in making it happen. On the spinning steel deal, if you know it can spin you may wanna aim harder. It is the same for everyone and yea, spinning steel sucks. I had some shining moments one of which is finishing 15th on a loading drag race while stuffing em 2 at a time, stage 12 in Doe Valley. Stage 9, shooting through the barrel with both shoulders and a hard lean may have been the toughest shooting position of the match and I turned in a 4th place finish. Consistency......working on it.

Bruce

[bmiller]

Does Taran run a Benelli in open?

[Bryan 45]

Does Taran run a Benelli in open?

According to the sticker on the side of it, yes.

But it looks suspiciously like a magazine fed Russian benelli.

[bmiller]

Thanks!

[believeraz]

. I'm not much for self-promotion, but I was one of only 3 shooters in the match that shot stage 7 without a MIKE. Of course, it took me almost 2x as long as Taran to do it. And that was after coming up with 5 MIKES on stage 14- which was our first stage of the match. I guess I got them all out of the way early.

Funny how we learn so quickly. Our squad started on 7 and acquired a LOT of slug misses. After seeing the damage a slug miss does to your score we all reduced the % of misses when we shot 14. I have vowed never to shoot IPSC shotgun again but if I forget and sign up next time pan am comes to town. Remind me how costly slug misses are please.

This was also where I learned the value of having my front sight secured by more than a single screw. 10 rounds in and it was 30 degrees left. Now to figure out how to pin it or something. When scoring occurred I thought my name was "Mike"! I so should have slowed down and aimed carefully down the rib...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

Edited August 10, 2015 by believeraz

[Jesse Tischauser]

. I'm not much for self-promotion, but I was one of only 3 shooters in the match that shot stage 7 without a MIKE. Of course, it took me almost 2x as long as Taran to do it. And that was after coming up with 5 MIKES on stage 14- which was our first stage of the match. I guess I got them all out of the way early.

Funny how we learn so quickly. Our squad started on 7 and acquired a LOT of slug misses. After seeing the damage a slug miss does to your score we all reduced the % of misses when we shot 14. I have vowed never to shoot IPSC shotgun again but if I forget and sign up next time pan am comes to town. Remind me how costly slug misses are please.

This was also where I learned the value of having my front sight secured by more than a single screw. 10 rounds in and it was 30 degrees left. Now to figure out how to pin it or something. When scoring occurred I thought my name was "Mike"! I so should have slowed down and aimed carefully down the rib...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

Mike Cyrwus at Accurate Iron Does it on every one of his race gun packages.

[Mig]

What are these targets - any photos?

. . . I like the press pipes used at Nordic. Can't be spun and always the same.

[Paul Winters]

Yes, slugs with Mike (hate that guy) hurt. Luckily, I got a certificate from RAS for Steve Rose to add sights to my shotgun that was on the prize table. IPSC was a new set of rules for a lot of us. In the end It was OK and I would shoot it again assuming another outlaw choice or a chance to get a lot more caddies. It was great to visit with old friends and make new friends. As an RO at stage8, everyone seemed to have a smile on their face (even if it was after a squad mate shot). Rockcastle has always been good to us and I feel fortunate to have it as my home club. Thanks for good leadership Mark. You were a big help clarifying the IPSC rule application. See y'all at the ProAm.

Paul : -)#

[believeraz]

. I'm not much for self-promotion, but I was one of only 3 shooters in the match that shot stage 7 without a MIKE. Of course, it took me almost 2x as long as Taran to do it. And that was after coming up with 5 MIKES on stage 14- which was our first stage of the match. I guess I got them all out of the way early.

Funny how we learn so quickly. Our squad started on 7 and acquired a LOT of slug misses. After seeing the damage a slug miss does to your score we all reduced the % of misses when we shot 14. I have vowed never to shoot IPSC shotgun again but if I forget and sign up next time pan am comes to town. Remind me how costly slug misses are please.

This was also where I learned the value of having my front sight secured by more than a single screw. 10 rounds in and it was 30 degrees left. Now to figure out how to pin it or something. When scoring occurred I thought my name was "Mike"! I so should have slowed down and aimed carefully down the rib...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

Mike Cyrwus at Accurate Iron Does it on every one of his race gun packages.

Thanks, and thanks again for all the help. I'm still digesting lessons learned because there was so much takeaway for me from this match.

I'll give Accurate Iron a call. I have a pretty tight timeline for turnaround between matches until after Blue Ridge so I might have to wait until October for a permanent fix.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

[Jesse Tischauser]

. I'm not much for self-promotion, but I was one of only 3 shooters in the match that shot stage 7 without a MIKE. Of course, it took me almost 2x as long as Taran to do it. And that was after coming up with 5 MIKES on stage 14- which was our first stage of the match. I guess I got them all out of the way early.

Funny how we learn so quickly. Our squad started on 7 and acquired a LOT of slug misses. After seeing the damage a slug miss does to your score we all reduced the % of misses when we shot 14. I have vowed never to shoot IPSC shotgun again but if I forget and sign up next time pan am comes to town. Remind me how costly slug misses are please.

This was also where I learned the value of having my front sight secured by more than a single screw. 10 rounds in and it was 30 degrees left. Now to figure out how to pin it or something. When scoring occurred I thought my name was "Mike"! I so should have slowed down and aimed carefully down the rib...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

Mike Cyrwus at Accurate Iron Does it on every one of his race gun packages.

Thanks, and thanks again for all the help. I'm still digesting lessons learned because there was so much takeaway for me from this match.

I'll give Accurate Iron a call. I have a pretty tight timeline for turnaround between matches until after Blue Ridge so I might have to wait until October for a permanent fix.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

That takes very little time to do. It's all in shipping time.

[MarkCO]

What are these targets - any photos?

. . . I like the press pipes used at Nordic. Can't be spun and always the same.

They use them on a few stages at the Nordic Shotgun Championship. Best shotgun KD target I have seen so far. Just "failed" oilfield pipe. There are various wall thicknesses, and the thinner 4",. cut to about 6-8" lengths works pretty well.

[CJW]

They use them on a few stages at the Nordic Shotgun Championship. Best shotgun KD target I have seen so far. Just "failed" oilfield pipe. There are various wall thicknesses, and the thinner 4",. cut to about 6-8" lengths works pretty well.

I saw those for the first time this year and really liked them (okay, the heavy ones on the jungle run maybe not quite as much...). They cannot spin, you have to aim a bit because "edge" hits will just slide right off, and there is almost no chance of backwards splatter from bird pellets—the pattern parts around the tube like waves off the bow of a ship. And when they get hit with slugs by accident, they seem to deform safely (dented, no jagged edges/shrapnel) and are cheap to replace.

Back to the match at hand, I am not getting ready for an IPSC match so I didn't study the rules deeply, but I think I had the right expectations for what an IPSC rules match would mean and I was certainly not disappointed. The buckshot stages, especially the 17-round field course, were surprisingly fun, and I think it turned out to be a very enjoyable match within the restrictions the IPSC structure imposed. I even ended up liking the "through the barrel" stage despite my impressions when I first looked at it.

Personally, I think the 50-round stage, even if toned down, should have been the biggest match stage—maybe 150 points or so. As shot, it was worth 15 fewer points than the second biggest stage, despite requiring 22 more shots, which seems a bit unbalanced in the opposite direction. Also, it is hard to tell from just looking at the Practiscore columns, but it seems that penalties were still full value (10 points per miss) even though when worked as a 125 point stage, hits were only worth 2.5 (rather than 5) points—so misses were quadruple the maximum scoring value. I had expected that HF would be calculated straight up on 250 points, then stage points assigned by percentage from the reduced stage value of 125 points. Essentially, how the halving was handled is the difference between needing 17, 10, or 9 Mikes to zero the stage, and that is significant.

Lastly, I am sure there were reasons for how scoring was done, but electronic scoring would have been nice. With the all steel stages getting only a single carbon copy for an entire squad, it was almost impossible for every shooter to keep an official record of his/her own scores. I prefer when an RO makes me look at the Nook or Kindle before pressing "Save" myself, thus pretty much guaranteeing that the electronic score is recorded correctly.

Anyway, Mark, great job and I really enjoyed my annual shotgun pilgrimage out to the Rock again!

[MarkCO]

I'm up to 2 pages of notes on things that I would do differently, so thanks for the feedback.

[Lead-Head]

that stage 14 thing CJ...Huge.

[MarkCO]

For those of you who actually shot the match, did you like having the slugs in an area and the buck in an area and the birdshot in an area?