MarkCO Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 The match is August 6-8, 2015 at Rockcastle Shooting Center. Competitors should plan to be at the Rock all day on the 7th and 8th. Staff will be shooting on Thursday the 6th, when competitors may view stages that are not occupied with staff. 14 stages, approximately ~270 rounds (bird, buck and slugs). 4 Short courses, 4 medium courses, 5 long courses and 1 really long course of 50+ rounds. At this time, I am planning about 50 rounds each of buckshot and slugs total in the match. 13 stages will be in compliance with the 2015 IPSC shotgun rules: http://www.ipsc.org/...ulesShotgun.pdf which will also define equipment rules for Open, Standard and Standard Manual Division. We are also offering an "Outlaw" division which will use the USPSA Tac-Ops shotgun division rules. Equipment checks will be conducted at check-in in a manner similar to what will occur at WorldShoot on the afternoon of the 6th. No competitor will be allowed to commence competition prior to equipment check in any of the IPSC divisions. On the 14th stage of 50+ rounds, Open competitors will be allowed to ignore the division magazine restrictions of the IPSC ruleset and Standard and Standard manual will be allowed to ignore the dimensions and locations related to caddies and shells carriers of the IPSC ruleset. For Open, I see no reason why magazines can not be blocked to be in compliance with the IPSC Open division rules. If you are trying to decide between Standard and Outlaw, these rules might help some of you decide: 5.2.3 Unless otherwise specified in the written stage briefing the competitor’s equipment belt carrying cartridges (in caddies, loops, clips, bags or pouches) and/or detachable magazines and/or speed loaders must be worn at waist level. “Chest-rigs”, bandoliers and similar carriers are expressly prohibited. Additional ammunition carriers mounted on forearms are permitted provided that cartridges are carried individually in loops or clips. 5.2.5 When carried in loops, clips or caddies no part of any cartridge is permitted to extend further than 75mm from a competitor's body. Cartridges carried on the gun are exempt and loose cartridges carried in a pouch or bag are usually exempt from this rule. The Range Master’s decision will be final in this matter. Open Division competitors are exempt from this rule. 5.2.5.1 The measurement is to be taken while the competitor is standing naturally upright. If you have entered a IPSC division and can not pass equipment check, you can adjust your gear or opt to be moved to Open or Outlaw. For the Ladies, we have partnered with Benelli and A Girl and a Gun to offer two all lady squads with a class and a coach through the match. Space is limited: http://www.agirlanda...l-championship/ Entry fee is $150 and registration will open at noon on March 15, 2015. Will get a Practiscore link for registration posted soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EaZeNuTZ33 Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 If I'm considering this match again, because it seems like it will be vastly different from last year and my schedule is already getting packed, would it be safe to assume that someone with dunlap disorder (read "beer gut") would be able to have caddies further out from their belt as long as the measurement is from the "body" and could be measured from the gut? I'm guessing that certain caddy styles, or combinations with certain mounting methods would not make that 75mm guideline since there will be a required equipment check for something like that. Would there be any difference if you tek-lok'd your caddies to your INNER belt and would essentially skip using an inner/outer belt combo. I'm going to look thru the IPSC rules that appear to be in place now, and compare to my gear before making a decision on the division, and match....but small details on things are always nice when there seems to be a change of who is running things and how it will be run. I liked the Noveske 3-gun match in Byers that you ran, so I know you can run a match...but IPSC rulesets on stages may constrain how things CAN be done. Most of above, would assume shooting the standard division instead of shooting outlaw (who shoots a pump or cheater gun anyways?).....which is where I think most would opt to shoot right now, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted March 10, 2015 Author Share Posted March 10, 2015 It is "from the body" which, near as I can tell from talking to some of our foreign customers, is generally the back of the inner belt. I made a little gauge and I checked a bunch of folks at a local match with a variety of equipment. I found very few that did not "extend more than 75mm" from a competitors body. I was always looking for a rule that favored Dunlop disorder, and this seems to be it. Yes, getting rid of Tek-loks on some caddies moves the gear in 7-8mm or so. Caddies on an angle for thin people are going to pose some challenges. The January 2015 rulebook, at least from what I can tell is the rulebook that will be in place for WS in Italy, and what I will use. I have only read it twice so far, but I have good confidence that the stages will be fun. If you have shot my matches, you know how I operate...the best experience for the shooter is first and foremost, but follow the rules. I assume that Outlaw will be the biggest division in the match but that is assumption only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EaZeNuTZ33 Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 It is "from the body" which, near as I can tell from talking to some of our foreign customers, is generally the back of the inner belt. I made a little gauge and I checked a bunch of folks at a local match with a variety of equipment. I found very few that did not "extend more than 75mm" from a competitors body. I was always looking for a rule that favored Dunlop disorder, and this seems to be it. Yes, getting rid of Tek-loks on some caddies moves the gear in 7-8mm or so. Caddies on an angle for thin people are going to pose some challenges. The January 2015 rulebook, at least from what I can tell is the rulebook that will be in place for WS in Italy, and what I will use. I have only read it twice so far, but I have good confidence that the stages will be fun. If you have shot my matches, you know how I operate...the best experience for the shooter is first and foremost, but follow the rules. I assume that Outlaw will be the biggest division in the match but that is assumption only. Interesting. You would assume that a rule would have to be considered equitable for all builds and styles....otherwise, a cheeseburger diet would be advantageous if shooting standard division. I currently use TMMS clips attached to Tek-Loks with Taccom Double Deuces. I would assume it is the distance from the body, measured at the part furthest from the body, even if the caddy is flat and against a sharper angled portion of the body like your front hip....where it may not make the cut, but mid stomach would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted March 10, 2015 Author Share Posted March 10, 2015 Kind of what I thought too. Furthest protrusion appears to be what the rulebook says and how it has been enforced. I'd almost guarantee that TL w/TMMS on the Taccoms with 2 betls will stick out too far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finbox Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Why are vests not allowed? Especially on a stage with 50 rounds.... Is there some safety concern with vest like the Chameleon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lead-Head Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 (edited) 75mm. That is just about 3 inches. I put my belt on with 4 round caddies, mounted on tek locks. Gonna be close.may have to cinch that sucker up as tight as I can stand it. Edited March 11, 2015 by Lead-Head Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted March 11, 2015 Author Share Posted March 11, 2015 Finbox, you will have to query IPSC on how and why they develop their ruleset. I was asked to run this match with that ruleset to benefit the US competitors going to Italy for the WS. However, from my original post: On the 14th stage of 50+ rounds, Open competitors will be allowed to ignore the division magazine restrictions of the IPSC ruleset and Standard and Standard manual will be allowed to ignore the dimensions and locations related to caddies and shells carriers of the IPSC ruleset. Brian, with standard 4 round caddies on tek-loks on a double belt, I have not yet found one that does not pass. 75mm = 2.95" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lead-Head Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Thanks. I never thought I would take calipers to my shell caddies, but tonight it happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted March 11, 2015 Author Share Posted March 11, 2015 A fired 2 3/4" shotgun hull is about 70mm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.E. Kelley Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 I used Carbon Arms Twins set up on Safariland ELS and all was ok at the IPSC Pan American. This subject was well hashed out over at the IPSC forum...IPSC Village Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abn-rgr Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Someone explain to me how a Junior who doesn't have a tactical belly can hold 50 rounds without using a vest??? Will the 50 round stage be non IPSC?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted March 11, 2015 Author Share Posted March 11, 2015 Someone explain to me how a Junior who doesn't have a tactical belly can hold 50 rounds without using a vest??? Will the 50 round stage be non IPSC?? Read the original post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EaZeNuTZ33 Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Someone explain to me how a Junior who doesn't have a tactical belly can hold 50 rounds without using a vest??? Will the 50 round stage be non IPSC??They can't.....and not sure if I could either. IPSC rules do not apply for that stage from what I understood.No one seems to know who is on a team for the future, and from what I'm hearing so far, most will be in outlaw anyways. Only reasons to run standard would be to try to win a division, or prepare for the actual IPSC match. From what I'm gathering, it should be fun, and other than a few people running the IPSC divisions, it will be like normal for those in outlaw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunfighteruk Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Chameleon load two vest is fine for Ipsc IF worn at waist level rather than at chest height. Although some stages of bending & moving could cause said rig to ride up the body & then become illegal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EaZeNuTZ33 Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 (edited) Double tap Edited March 11, 2015 by EaZeNuTZ33 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roxymajor Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 (edited) Yippie!! Great news! If you have a chest vest like a "Chameleon two-load". You can slide it down to your "waist area". Not much difference in your loading. This at least passed mustard before. Or just shoot outlaw. Edited March 12, 2015 by roxymajor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sterling White Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Of all the caddies on the market which ones make it and which one do not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted March 12, 2015 Author Share Posted March 12, 2015 Of all the caddies on the market which ones make it and which one do not? You will have to check your own gear how you have it set up on your body. Not going to get into a product debate because it is irrelevant to the match, please be respectful of that. If shooters want to post a picture of their set-up with their measurements, that is fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sterling White Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 It might be nice to know just in case I measure and my equipment doesn't measure up or in this case measures up too much... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EaZeNuTZ33 Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 It might be nice to know just in case I measure and my equipment doesn't measure up or in this case measures up too much... First time for everything eh? I have an old plastic ruler with mm measurements on it and I used a black sharpee on the 75mm line. Since the rules say the body, not the body at the belt line, some clarity would help identify whether or not my standard double deuces on small TMMS clips attached to Tek-Loks would be fine like they appear to be, if the Double Deuces attached to Tek-Loks directly are at 76mm like they appear to be when using a two part belt and measuring to the inner belt, OR if I would need to attach Tek-Lok secured double deuces to my inner belt in forgo the outer belt altogether to achieve a roughly 70mm measurement. I don't think there is anything disrespectful about asking if I can use my product of choice for each division. I already "knew" I couldn't use my chest rig.....but now it appears I may be able to lower it to waist level. Would that mean I could have my belt full, then directly above it, have what is my normal chest rig? Could I use my normal chest rig at waist level without the belt caddies, or would it have to be secured by belt loops? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted March 12, 2015 Author Share Posted March 12, 2015 As I said, you are more than welcome to post your set-up with your measurements, but I will not give any guarantees that you will pass inspection, part of racing. If you are under 75mm, then that part will be legal. It does not say at the belt for the measurement, it says body. So if any part of the carrier or shell is further than 75mm, you would not be able to use that in the IPSC divisions, I am not sure what more I can add except to measure your stuff. I have not commented on the chest rigs worn lower because the plain reading of the rule says they are "expressly prohibited" however some believe that IPSC allows such. I have not had time to search for the specific IPSC ruling and until I find it, I can not say what they said. I am more interested in what they plan to say for 2015 WS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sterling White Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Interesting. It's my understand that most if not all caddies from US OEM's are being shipped and used Internationally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roxymajor Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Yippie!! Great news! If you have a chest vest like a "Chameleon two-load". You can slide it down to your "waist area". Not much difference in your loading. This at least passed mustard before. Or just shoot outlaw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted March 12, 2015 Author Share Posted March 12, 2015 Here is the link for registration: https://clubs.practiscore.com/2015-benelli-rockcastle-tactical-shotgun-match/register Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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