asuran83 Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 I am looking at buying a used M2 or a new MOA Stoger 3000. The M2 is in good condition and comes witb e erything a new one would. What would you recommend and why? What would need to be done to the M2 besides a mag tube? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oskino Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Buy the M2, I have a Stoeger M3000 now in 26" and I do like it, but if i"m honest with myself i continue to say "it's like a M2" .So if your budget allows for it get the M2, as I will likely be getting one in 6 months or so and have the Stoeger as backup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oskino Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 M2 loading port will need to be opened, lifter welded or replaced with the TTI lifter, shell catch will need to be tuned and that's about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Can you get out and shoot both? If so, do, then choose. I put the 4 top 3Gun shotguns on the table, each with a box of shells, for my 13 year old and let him shoot them. He chose the M3000. That shotgun is now with Tom at MOA to get spruced up with the P3K package, once PK finalizes it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 I would buy the one that doesn't require you to buy any parts from another manufacturer to make it run properly. All you have to do is read through the voluminous pages of how to build X to make it as good as a Benelli to get a good feel for which one is the way you want to go. As for what needs to be done, that is rather subjective, but I would say getting a TTI lifter or having yours welded up by C-Rum's is an absolute must, (same for the M3000) getting a mag tube obviously (once again same for both). I don't really hog out loading ports, looking at my gun is like looking at a stock gun in comparison to guns these days. All I do is lightly break the sharp edges on the factory port with a fine file, but here is an area where you can really go wild, but probably shouldn't unless you really have a good handle on how the gun functions and what are the critical areas; just look for the post that says "I need a new M2 receiver". Note: I am not sponsored by Benelli in any manor, I was briefly, but no longer. I do however still firmly believe in their product, I was shooting Benlli,s long before they sponsored me and am shooting them still. As I said in the promo video....."Benelli,s don't break" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 So I guess Kurt is recommending the SuperNova. Only one you can run out of the box without additional parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrbet83 Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 So I guess Kurt is recommending the SuperNova. No, no.....he's pointing guys towards the a5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonytheTiger Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 So I guess Kurt is recommending the SuperNova.No, no.....he's pointing guys towards the a5The GAME CHANGER!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrbet83 Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 So I guess Kurt is recommending the SuperNova.No, no.....he's pointing guys towards the a5The GAME CHANGER!!!! Yep. Mag tube and go! No bolt release button, charging handle, match saver or welded lifter...hell don't even need ammo. Just show up with one and you're good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOOM Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Give the guy with the used M2 phone number. I'll help you decide M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaranTactical Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 M2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Sigh...MarkCo....Welded up lifter is still THE SAME PART, modified, but still the same part. Even on the Super Nova you need to obtain a tube which as far as I can tell is an additional part. What I was pointing out was in the M300 threat, where can I get a Benelli M2 extractor and spring, the one in this M3000 won't extract. Also where can I get a Benelli cam pin, the one in my M3000 is cracked....etc. You know....parts from another manufacturer that will fit the gun and be FAR BETTER than the parts it came with...kind o like the parts guys have to change out of M3000/M3500/M2000, Versa Max for Benelli parts so the guns will work properly.....little things like that! As for game changer....I happen to know that is like 8 different kinds of cheese baked into the crust of a pizza....T.V. told me right off, so is an A5 got cheese baked right in??? There are a bunch of mice that want to know! Jrbet83....the Super Nova does have a bolt release button, and a charging handle.....it just happens to look like a big old fore end with big old grasping groves! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 That is a lot of words Kurt! Sorry, I was kind of being Sarcastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinWolv Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 M2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhill Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 You cant beat the M2 for quality and reliability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openclassterror Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 Sigh...MarkCo....Welded up lifter is still THE SAME PART, modified, but still the same part. Even on the Super Nova you need to obtain a tube which as far as I can tell is an additional part. What I was pointing out was in the M300 threat, where can I get a Benelli M2 extractor and spring, the one in this M3000 won't extract. Also where can I get a Benelli cam pin, the one in my M3000 is cracked....etc. You know....parts from another manufacturer that will fit the gun and be FAR BETTER than the parts it came with...kind o like the parts guys have to change out of M3000/M3500/M2000, Versa Max for Benelli parts so the guns will work properly.....little things like that! As for game changer....I happen to know that is like 8 different kinds of cheese baked into the crust of a pizza....T.V. told me right off, so is an A5 got cheese baked right in??? There are a bunch of mice that want to know! Jrbet83....the Super Nova does have a bolt release button, and a charging handle.....it just happens to look like a big old fore end with big old grasping groves! M3000s do not use a Benelli M2 cam pin, it uses a totally different cam design. I have never seen/ heard of one cracking. The extractor can be a problem on occasion, mine has lasted in factory form beyond 8,000 rounds. Dimensionally they are an exact copy of the M2 extractor, but I will make no claim that a Turkish made gun will have the same quality as a Benelli especially on hand-work areas, like the bevel on the extractor corner. The appeal of the M3000 is that even with a few replacement parts it is significantly less expensive than a Benelli, which will allow a new shooter to spend a lot more scratch on ammo. Which is where new shooters should be spending their money, assuming whatever gun they shoot is reliable. I have considered swapping a Stoeger lifter into a Benelli, as the slight radius at the end won't bite like a Benelli lifter, and it is about 1/4 the cost of having the benelli lifter welded. How is THAT for sacrilege! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oskino Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 I will add to Toms "sacrilege", I personally like the shell catch design better on the M3000 vs the M2 and will likely swap it out, if it fits which it should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 The M3000 shell catch is appealing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellyn Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 (edited) M2 (Taran and I agree on something!) Edited March 8, 2015 by kellyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonytheTiger Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 If you have the $ to buy the M2 this seems like kind of a silly question. That's like buying a Camaro to race in your local Chevy track day when you can afford a Corvette. There's nothing wrong with a Camaro and there's always that skilled dude in one whose gonna stomp the old farts in Corvettes but if money's not an issue why bother starting out with the slower machine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 (edited) Ahem......Benelli....265,000 rounds....thats right two hundred and sixty five thousand rounds on my original M1, and the closest M 3000? Edited March 8, 2015 by kurtm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openclassterror Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 (edited) Neither the M3000 or any of its operators are old enough to have that many rounds through one Also, as I recall you mentioned in a post once that you had replaced a broken barrel extension and various other worn out parts over the course of that many rounds. Not saying there is anything wrong with that, as anything mechanical will have a life cycle limit. Only saying that even Benellis are not made of unicorn tails Edited March 8, 2015 by openclassterror Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 (edited) Yep painting with a broad brush.....cam pin was for a Versa Max, not an M3000, my bad! With that in mind buy an M3000 it is a far better gun than a Benelli. Cheaper, last just as long, is as reliable, and is winning matches world wide! I can't wait to sell my over priced Benellis and jump on the Stoeger bandwagon!!! yes I replaced a bolt carrier at 135,000 rounds because I didn't understand to lube it, and now you all know, (circa 2002) and a barrel extension at 157,000 rounds, I didn't have to replace the extractor and spring in the first 2000 rounds, nor did I have to polish the magazine tube to get my Benelli to run. There is not a single Stoeger with as many rounds out there as I have on my Benelli, and if they run 1/4 as long it might be a good deal but what I have read so far they have a ways to go. Edited March 8, 2015 by kurtm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openclassterror Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 I don't think I have seen anyone claim the Stoeger is better than a Benelli. If the price were in the same ballpark, I would probably buy an M2. The Turkish guns are definitely not in the same league in fit and finish. Or price. No one (at least not I), is trying to talk you into selling your Benelli to buy a Stoeger. You may have noticed that I never made a recommendation to the OP about which to buy, because I do not want to come across as a shill. In any event, you are right that no one yet knows how long the Stoegers will last, as they haven't been in the 3gun world long enough. The M2000 was definitely not up to the task, and for the most part has disappeared from the 3gun world. The M3000 is much improved, but only time will tell if it has the long-term durability for such an abusive sport. As far as magazine tube polishing, the guns run fine without it as long as you bump up the minimum recoil level at which you are willing to run. It is simply an enhancement (albeit one the Benellis don't need) to run outside the design limits of the factory gun. If we were willing to accept the minimum charge weight specified in the manual, no one would bother to polish the tube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmiller Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 I don't think I have seen anyone claim the Stoeger is better than a Benelli. If the price were in the same ballpark, I would probably buy an M2. The Turkish guns are definitely not in the same league in fit and finish. Or price. No one (at least not I), is trying to talk you into selling your Benelli to buy a Stoeger. You may have noticed that I never made a recommendation to the OP about which to buy, because I do not want to come across as a shill. In any event, you are right that no one yet knows how long the Stoegers will last, as they haven't been in the 3gun world long enough. The M2000 was definitely not up to the task, and for the most part has disappeared from the 3gun world. The M3000 is much improved, but only time will tell if it has the long-term durability for such an abusive sport. As far as magazine tube polishing, the guns run fine without it as long as you bump up the minimum recoil level at which you are willing to run. It is simply an enhancement (albeit one the Benellis don't need) to run outside the design limits of the factory gun. If we were willing to accept the minimum charge weight specified in the manual, no one would bother to polish the tube. Do you take a back-up gun to matches with you? I have a versamax, and usually take a back up with me. Mine hasn't puked yet, but I don't trust it. I don't know if I had a M2 I would have that mindset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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