motosapiens Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Something tells me the fishing isn't as good though There's not as much traffic either. I would consider both of those a good thing. lol. Although I know many people who are serious fishermen (not well, obviously), and apparently there is about every kind of fishing here except deep sea. It's particularly well known for fly-fishing in the mountains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alecmc Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 I try to help out as much as I can every local match I attend, I submit and design stages, get there a few hours early for setup and bust my hump. And I know alot of club policies and decisions on money are out of the match directors hands, but It's my personal opinion that if i'm there 2 or 3 hours before everybody else, sweating my ass off building stages and i'm burnt out before I even start shooting, I should at least be able to shoot the match for free, or at the very least some sort of discount. That way - It gives the current guys coming out a little incentive to not get burned out, and it might entice a few new guys to start building stages and designing new stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 (edited) Alec, you know that I wouldn't have a problem with doing that, but the issue becomes one of time tracking. Let say you show up early and designed a stage and built it, but your buddy showed up with you and he worked with you just as hard, but he didn't design the stage. What do I do for him? What do I do for the guy that showed up 10 min later and helped. And the guy 10 min after that? And now it is entirely on the honor system and you know some people will abuse it. Although, I think I'll try it this year. Design and build a stage and shoot for free, lets see how it works out. Edited February 25, 2015 by Vlad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alecmc Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Alec, you know that I wouldn't have a problem with doing that, but the issue becomes one of time tracking. Let say you show up early and designed a stage and built it, but your buddy showed up with you and he worked with you just as hard, but he didn't design the stage. What do I do for him? What do I do for the guy that showed up 10 min later and helped. And the guy 10 min after that? And now it is entirely on the honor system and you know some people will abuse it. Although, I think I'll try it this year. Design and build a stage and shoot for free, lets see how it works out. No doubt the logistics of it would be crazy, people coming into the registration house and saying yah I set up , i want to shoot for free, meanwhile all they did is staple a few targets. Maybe it would have to be like a " pre-registration " deal through our email system? Or like the OBRPC work hour system. You have 20 spots for builders that need to be there at 7 am to setup, people claim them or they dont. If you have volunteers in the morning busting their hump just as hard, or half hard. The A.MD or MD can use his discretion on shoot for free, or discount. It's likely that it'll be the same crew as always at both matches doing the leg work anyway. Hopefully it's something can work out, and people will actually be honest about it. Hopefully it'll bring in some more creative stages, and we are setup faster, shoot earlier, breakdown earlier, go home earlier. It'd be nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 at our club its $10 for members and $15 for non members; for Steel Challenge its the same for a 2nd gun ... for USPSA & Steel Challenge each squad is responsible to break down the stage they finish on. Setup unfortunately is done by a select few but their match fees are waived ... if it's discovered you don't help break down your score sheet typically don't seem to find its way into the final scoring for some reason .... usually people only don't help once or they don't come back ... I'm good with either ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ming the Merciless Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 at our club its $10 for members and $15 for non members; for Steel Challenge its the same for a 2nd gun ... for USPSA & Steel Challenge each squad is responsible to break down the stage they finish on. Setup unfortunately is done by a select few but their match fees are waived ... if it's discovered you don't help break down your score sheet typically don't seem to find its way into the final scoring for some reason .... usually people only don't help once or they don't come back ... I'm good with either ... That's rather unethical of your club and your attitude also doesn't say much for your club. Do you also "lose" the score sheets of shooters who do better than you? or shoot a particular brand of gun you don't like? I suspect USPSA would yank your affiliation if they found your club doing this, that is if they actually had a working administration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 at our club its $10 for members and $15 for non members; for Steel Challenge its the same for a 2nd gun ... for USPSA & Steel Challenge each squad is responsible to break down the stage they finish on. Setup unfortunately is done by a select few but their match fees are waived ... if it's discovered you don't help break down your score sheet typically don't seem to find its way into the final scoring for some reason .... usually people only don't help once or they don't come back ... I'm good with either ... That's rather unethical of your club and your attitude also doesn't say much for your club. Do you also "lose" the score sheets of shooters who do better than you? or shoot a particular brand of gun you don't like? I suspect USPSA would yank your affiliation if they found your club doing this, that is if they actually had a working administration. I think we talked about nimitz' range practices once before. I don't know him and he might be a helluva guy for all I know. But that's a pretty shitty thing to do with a shooters scoresheet. It has to be against USPSA policy but he still seems to say he does it so maybe they are fine with it. I typically would say, "whatever it takes" when it comes to trying to get folks to "volunteer" but this is way over the line. YMMV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 at our club its $10 for members and $15 for non members; for Steel Challenge its the same for a 2nd gun ... for USPSA & Steel Challenge each squad is responsible to break down the stage they finish on. Setup unfortunately is done by a select few but their match fees are waived ... if it's discovered you don't help break down your score sheet typically don't seem to find its way into the final scoring for some reason .... usually people only don't help once or they don't come back ... I'm good with either ... That's rather unethical of your club and your attitude also doesn't say much for your club. Do you also "lose" the score sheets of shooters who do better than you? or shoot a particular brand of gun you don't like? I suspect USPSA would yank your affiliation if they found your club doing this, that is if they actually had a working administration. I missed that part earlier. Very good point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeerBaron Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 I can't speak to how it works in the US, but where I live for your typical 2 day level 2 match it runs like this. hosting club does the setup and tear down (often other help with teardown). this is the only practical way as the members of that club are the ones in the area. People who need to drive 2 hours or 5 hours to get there typically can't help set-up. Range officers generally get to shoot for free if it's a big match, or they just volunteer to RO their squad. Match fees are around $40 USD for a 2 day match. In each squad of 10-15 shooters there will be at any time: 1 person RO'ing 1 person scoring 2-3 picking up brass 3-4 patching/resetting targets. That leaves at least 6 on the squad who are loading mags, checking gun, getting drink, going to toilet, prepping for stage, on deck, etc. Sure there will be 1 or 2 people who will basically do nothing the whole day. Some people no matter how much they hear the 'patching please' call just don't care. But I'd say more than 90% of people do their share. It's not onerous to patch for say half the people in your squad. So half the time you're patching and the other half is resting/shooting. As was mentioned before if you don't do your share people soon let their feelings be known.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeerBaron Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 at our club its $10 for members and $15 for non members; for Steel Challenge its the same for a 2nd gun ... for USPSA & Steel Challenge each squad is responsible to break down the stage they finish on. Setup unfortunately is done by a select few but their match fees are waived ... if it's discovered you don't help break down your score sheet typically don't seem to find its way into the final scoring for some reason .... usually people only don't help once or they don't come back ... I'm good with either ... so some guy who's traveled 5 hrs to get to the match, has helped patch and collect brass all day but can't stick around to break down for whatever reason gets no score? that's not cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 tag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clawson2011 Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 at our club its $10 for members and $15 for non members; for Steel Challenge its the same for a 2nd gun ... for USPSA & Steel Challenge each squad is responsible to break down the stage they finish on. Setup unfortunately is done by a select few but their match fees are waived ... if it's discovered you don't help break down your score sheet typically don't seem to find its way into the final scoring for some reason .... usually people only don't help once or they don't come back ... I'm good with either ... So what do you all do with the fees you are required to send to USPSA when you "lose" a Shooters Scores? Do you send it to them or do you just figure that since the scores are lost that you can keep the money at the club and not report it to HQ? Isn't it a bad thing for your club if a shooter does't return? If you all don;t need the money why charge members and non-members a different rate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
remoandiris Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 at our club its $10 for members and $15 for non members; for Steel Challenge its the same for a 2nd gun ... for USPSA & Steel Challenge each squad is responsible to break down the stage they finish on. Setup unfortunately is done by a select few but their match fees are waived ... if it's discovered you don't help break down your score sheet typically don't seem to find its way into the final scoring for some reason .... usually people only don't help once or they don't come back ... I'm good with either ... so some guy who's traveled 5 hrs to get to the match, has helped patch and collect brass all day but can't stick around to break down for whatever reason gets no score? that's not cool. First off, NO ONE travels 5 hrs to our matches. Doesn't effin happen, so stop exaggerating. Second, I can't speak for our SC MD, but the USPSA MD does NOT toss out score sheets. Doesn't effin happen!! The MD does NOT toss score sheets because of a skip out. DOES NOT DO IT, DID NOT DO IT, WILL NOT DO IT. Got it?! If someone on his/her squad gets pissed off and tosses the scooter's score sheet, that is a different animal. The MD doesn't run around at the end of the match and double check every score sheet is turned in prior to everyone leaving the range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aceinyerface Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 So there is not an explicit rule for the club, but there is tacit approval throughout the membership. What club is this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
remoandiris Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 (edited) So there is not an explicit rule for the club, but there is tacit approval throughout the membership. What club is this? WTH??? Where do you get that there is tacit approval throughout the membership? Did you skip reading comprehension at your school? Edited February 26, 2015 by remoandiris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aceinyerface Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 (edited) So there is not an explicit rule for the club, but there is tacit approval throughout the membership. What club is this? WTH??? Where do you get that there is tacit approval throughout the membership? Did you skip reading comprehension at your school? I didn't go to the same school as you, obviously. I jumped to that conclusion by reading this... Nimitz, on 25 Feb 2015 - 6:40 PM, said: at our club its $10 for members and $15 for non members; for Steel Challenge its the same for a 2nd gun ... for USPSA & Steel Challenge each squad is responsible to break down the stage they finish on. Setup unfortunately is done by a select few but their match fees are waived ... if it's discovered you don't help break down your score sheet typically don't seem to find its way into the final scoring for some reason .... usually people only don't help once or they don't come back ... I'm good with either ... This implies there are some who will "lose" your sheet and others who are good with it. Is that not tacit approval? Edited February 26, 2015 by aceinyerface Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
remoandiris Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 I guess you skipped right past my post where I stated; "the USPSA MD does NOT toss out score sheets. Doesn't effin happen!! The MD does NOT toss score sheets because of a skip out. DOES NOT DO IT, DID NOT DO IT, WILL NOT DO IT. Got it?! If someone on his/her squad gets pissed off and tosses the scooter's score sheet, that is a different animal. The MD doesn't run around at the end of the match and double check every score sheet is turned in prior to everyone leaving the range." So, if you want to take one person's statement that is does happen as tacit approval, you go right ahead. I have known the USPSA MD for 10 years. I am pretty sure that is about twice as long as Nimitz has known him. You believe what you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AA-Wolf Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 Nimitz is speaking out of line. I run the USPSA match and have for 6 years as well as the 3 Gun for 3 years, yes both, I am a sucker! I am lucky we have good members that do help out, As a joke it has been threatened - as a joke, but never done. If someone can show where this has happened in the SIX YEARS I have run the match, please do so. ALL scores are posted on the USPSA website along with the club website so have at it. Some people just speak without the facts. Again, NO SCORESHEET HAS EVER BEEN LOST. If I have a sign-in sheet without a scoresheet I call the shooter!!!! If they had to leave early and took their scoresheet, I refund their fee next time they shoot. Ask around, don't take my word. I am extremely fair, as I know life can get in the way of our fun! Funny that that was not mentioned... We do have members drive 2+ hours and if they need to leave as soon as the match is over they talk with me and I let them go without teardown. Lastly, Our USPSA stages are used for 3 Gun the next week, so the USPSA teardown is just removing the paper and putting the expensive props away! So now you have the full story. This is how myth and legends become truths.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aceinyerface Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 (edited) Nimitz is speaking out of line. You can see where this can be cause for concern. Edited February 26, 2015 by aceinyerface Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AA-Wolf Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 Nimitz is speaking out of line. You can see where this can be cause for concern. This is why I addressed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 Nimitz is speaking out of line. I run the USPSA match and have for 6 years as well as the 3 Gun for 3 years, yes both, I am a sucker! I am lucky we have good members that do help out, As a joke it has been threatened - as a joke, but never done. If someone can show where this has happened in the SIX YEARS I have run the match, please do so. ALL scores are posted on the USPSA website along with the club website so have at it. Some people just speak without the facts. Again, NO SCORESHEET HAS EVER BEEN LOST. If I have a sign-in sheet without a scoresheet I call the shooter!!!! If they had to leave early and took their scoresheet, I refund their fee next time they shoot. Ask around, don't take my word. I am extremely fair, as I know life can get in the way of our fun! Funny that that was not mentioned... We do have members drive 2+ hours and if they need to leave as soon as the match is over they talk with me and I let them go without teardown. Lastly, Our USPSA stages are used for 3 Gun the next week, so the USPSA teardown is just removing the paper and putting the expensive props away! So now you have the full story. This is how myth and legends become truths.... Nimitz is speaking out of line. I run the USPSA match and have for 6 years as well as the 3 Gun for 3 years, yes both, I am a sucker! I am lucky we have good members that do help out, As a joke it has been threatened - as a joke, but never done. If someone can show where this has happened in the SIX YEARS I have run the match, please do so. ALL scores are posted on the USPSA website along with the club website so have at it. Some people just speak without the facts. Again, NO SCORESHEET HAS EVER BEEN LOST. If I have a sign-in sheet without a scoresheet I call the shooter!!!! If they had to leave early and took their scoresheet, I refund their fee next time they shoot. Ask around, don't take my word. I am extremely fair, as I know life can get in the way of our fun! Funny that that was not mentioned... We do have members drive 2+ hours and if they need to leave as soon as the match is over they talk with me and I let them go without teardown. Lastly, Our USPSA stages are used for 3 Gun the next week, so the USPSA teardown is just removing the paper and putting the expensive props away! So now you have the full story. This is how myth and legends become truths.... Thanks for stepping up to MD two matches let alone one! Thanks also for clarifying misinformation(LIE) being spread by one of your shooters. Like I said earlier I believe he has said the same thing before? It's pretty easy for one or two people to give your match and club a bad reputation. Time for some one on one with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 at our club its $10 for members and $15 for non members; for Steel Challenge its the same for a 2nd gun ... for USPSA & Steel Challenge each squad is responsible to break down the stage they finish on. Setup unfortunately is done by a select few but their match fees are waived ... if it's discovered you don't help break down your score sheet typically don't seem to find its way into the final scoring for some reason .... usually people only don't help once or they don't come back ... I'm good with either ... so some guy who's traveled 5 hrs to get to the match, has helped patch and collect brass all day but can't stick around to break down for whatever reason gets no score? that's not cool. I'm not going to get into the losing scoresheets thing, but I think we're mostly talking about local matches, not major multi-day events. At our local matches it only takes 1 few minutes to carry away 5-8 walls, some barrels, a few poppers and target stands, so even if you came from far far away, you would be expected to help, and pretty much everyone does because the squad starts doing it as soon as the last shooter is scored. It only takes a few minutes. for a bigger match with more elaborate setup, where you may have a reshoot based on a protest or scoring problem, and where the setup may be more elaborate, I don't think anyone would worry too much about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clawson2011 Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 (edited) ... Edited February 26, 2015 by clawson2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teros135 Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 There's a label for this type of scurrilous behavior - "trolling". It's sad, and completely unnecessary. And a fast way to a bad reputation. Who's going to believe him next time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric nielsen Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 To be (more) clear, the club authorities at Malabar decided there were enough things wrong with recent USPSA matches that they temporarily suspended the membership for some of the USPSA match administrators. I don't know all the details but the issue seemed to be about match set-up. It's a shame because the last match I went to was a blast. They are asking for volunteers to help run the matches which I'd love to do but for the last year I've worked every other weekend and even on my "free" Saturdays, I've typically arrived home from the hospital Friday midnight or later. March will free up somewhat so I'll do what I can to pitch in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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