bmiller Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 I avoid that at my match by setting up the day before and paying those that come out to help me. This way I don't have to bust my hump for the enjoyment of others to watch. We start on time and get to sleep at least a little longer. For us that is impossible. For one, I live nearly 1 hour away from the range where I ran the a match (accounting for traffic) and taking an extra half day from my life and finding another 5-6 people do it would be a non-starter. For another, this club has 2500+ members, the club would never allow us to take up part of the range for an extra half a day when no one is even using it and reduce the available shooting space for the membership. Lastly, some of our crap would probably get stolen or destroyed, again ... 2500 members, some are bound to be assholes. Not moving to Jersey anytime soon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alecmc Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 (edited) Not moving to Jersey anytime soon! Best idea ever. Sincerely, NJ resident Edited February 25, 2015 by alecmc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prov1x Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 (edited) We set up the day before, in the afternoons, when the range is least busy. I am the MD and it's usually only 1 other person and myself, although last month we had 3 of us for set up. Setting up is huge undertaking the morning of, I don't see how you could do it without shooting later in the day, as Sarge said they started around 11. If we started that late, we wouldn't have anybody show up. And I can't get anybody else to come help with set up. One of the other ranges that USED to have uspsa matches, started setting up the morning of and having people who were shooting the match help with set up and still charged them for shooting the match. Needless to say they stopped having matches shortly after because nobody wanted to go and do that the morning of and they couldn't get anybody to help the evening before. Most people don't want to "volunteer" their time for a day and a half to help with a match. I charge $20 per match and half that ($10) goes to the range for using the bays etc....It used to be $15 for non-members and $10 for members. Now it's $20 across the board and I pay for just about everything, wall materials, targets, tape, paint, etc....and people complain and complain that I charge $20 entry fees. This is how it breaks down, $20 entry, $10 per goes to club, $3 per goes to uspsa, $7 per left over for everything else listed above. It is honestly skimming by right now until we can get caught up on a few things. People who help set up, all 2-3 of us, shoot for free. Did I have to purchase new wall materials (netting), no, but the range isn't going to purchase any for us to use as they already have some cheap orange snow fence that tears easily and looks like crap and we have to re-tie it every time we use it because it breaks. Purchasing new material is a way of "giving" back to the range also, without having to give up extra money to use the bays and/or hear complaints about us taking up too much space for the time of set up, match, and tear down. Luckily most of the guys will tear down the stage that they finish on and bring everything to the front of the bays for the range staff to pick up and store it in it's proper place. People want to get in and shoot in the morning and be done by 1, or about, around here. I've only been the match director for 8 months and our club went without a match for 6 months after the old MD decided he was done doing it anymore. I try to put on nice, bigger matches, with lots of movement and options etc. Our round count is usually 170 if you don't miss, which is about on par with all of the other matches in our state. The biggest issue with local uspsa is the word "Volunteer" as I said in my first post. People want to show up and shoot and leave, just as they would at a big match. I heard all kinds of complaining about tearing down because they were paying $20 to shoot!!!!! If I could, and it may turn out that way later, pay people to help set up or take them to lunch afterwards, that may make a difference but who knows.... Edited February 25, 2015 by Prov1x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 (edited) We set up the day before, in the afternoons, when the range is least busy. I am the MD and it's usually only 1 other person and myself, although last month we had 3 of us for set up. Setting up is huge undertaking the morning of, I don't see how you could do it without shooting later in the day, as Sarge said they started around 11. Interesting. I'd be curious to see your stages and props and see what takes so long. We start shooting at 11 in the deep winter, 10 in spring/fall and 9 in the hot season, and show up 90 mins early to set up and register. I think for most people (certainly for me), it's a LOT easier to show up early and socialize and put stages together than try to get there the afternoon before. We'd have nothing but retired guys and a few firefighters setting up if we did that, and they'd probably get totally burned out from doing all the work. I've never heard anyone complain about tearing down. Unless it was someone truly elderly/infirm, I'd suggest they move to new jersey if I heard something like that. It sounds like for many places that USPSA club isn't as closely associated with the range and it is here. Edited February 25, 2015 by motosapiens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Sounds like I am luckier than most. I probably get closer to 10 to help set up on Saturday afternoon. It still takes us a good 4 hours to do things right. Hell, maybe I'm doing things wrong and trying to have good quality stages with good round counts. All we do on match morning is hang targets. Last year I started the raffle idea for set up help. I raffled off a gun last year and this year it will be an SDB Thanks to Brian! I still only charge $15 for 5 stages. It seems around here that there are very few who won't help paste, paint etc. But I will say 80% of the shooters at my matches are just there to shoot. Just like it's a major, when it comes to doing anything extra. They will pay their money, get squadded, load mags, and then just watch people work. But I see that at other local matches as well. I guess being an MD myself makes me this way, but when I shoot the other locals I tend to help more than the average shooter, including setting up, ROing etc. I rarely just go to a match and just shoot it. I guess I was born without the, "I'll watch while you work", gene. Probably the most aggravated I have ever been with a shooter was when a shooting buddy looked at me and said "his" time was too valuable to him to get involved in setting up. My time is just as important to me. I just choose to use it helping others have a match to shoot. As to vlad's post. We too shoot at a club with over 2000 members. They have always put our setup on the calendar the day prior to matches. The members all know it so it rarely causes problems. Funny thing is, when we held the state match one of the chief complaints was that we took the range away from membership. When I asked about hosting again part of the deal was to do away with all but a small window of set up time. That's just not possible for a ten stage match so my guess is we will never host another big match. It is after all a rifle club so that probably makes sense. I just don't think a lack of volunteers will ever go away. All you can do is do your best to try to bring people in and do the best you can with what you have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 We set up the day before, in the afternoons, when the range is least busy. I am the MD and it's usually only 1 other person and myself, although last month we had 3 of us for set up. Setting up is huge undertaking the morning of, I don't see how you could do it without shooting later in the day, as Sarge said they started around 11. Interesting. I'd be curious to see your stages and props and see what takes so long. We start shooting at 11 in the deep winter, 10 in spring/fall and 9 in the hot season, and show up 90 mins early to set up and register. I think for most people (certainly for me), it's a LOT easier to show up early and socialize and put stages together than try to get there the afternoon before. We'd have nothing but retired guys and a few firefighters setting up if we did that, and they'd probably get totally burned out from doing all the work. I've never heard anyone complain about tearing down. Unless it was someone truly elderly/infirm, I'd suggest they move to new jersey if I heard something like that. It sounds like for many places that USPSA club isn't as closely associated with the range and it is here. 90 minutes?!? We register shooters longer than that. My wife started coming out and spending the day with me last year. She takes care of registration so I can get out on the stages to help, put out the ice water, range boxes, first aid kit, etc. Our match weekend is pretty much a write off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 (edited) We set up the day before, in the afternoons, when the range is least busy. I am the MD and it's usually only 1 other person and myself, although last month we had 3 of us for set up. Setting up is huge undertaking the morning of, I don't see how you could do it without shooting later in the day, as Sarge said they started around 11. Interesting. I'd be curious to see your stages and props and see what takes so long. We start shooting at 11 in the deep winter, 10 in spring/fall and 9 in the hot season, and show up 90 mins early to set up and register. I think for most people (certainly for me), it's a LOT easier to show up early and socialize and put stages together than try to get there the afternoon before. We'd have nothing but retired guys and a few firefighters setting up if we did that, and they'd probably get totally burned out from doing all the work. I've never heard anyone complain about tearing down. Unless it was someone truly elderly/infirm, I'd suggest they move to new jersey if I heard something like that. It sounds like for many places that USPSA club isn't as closely associated with the range and it is here. 90 minutes?!? We register shooters longer than that. My wife started coming out and spending the day with me last year. She takes care of registration so I can get out on the stages to help, put out the ice water, range boxes, first aid kit, etc. Our match weekend is pretty much a write off. How many shooters do you have? we get anywhere from 20-30 in sub-freezing weather to 50-70 in the spring/summer. Takes about 15-30 seconds per shooter, more like a minute for the new folks, but most folks aren't new. I help setup, help with reg/scoring if necessary (we have several folks qualified to do it), shoot, help tear down, and get home in time to have a home brew and help my wife in the garden, or go wine-tasting, or make a fancy dinner together, or go out for beers and hockey..... This thread is making me love it here even more. If I make it to the indoor match tonight I'm going to give everyone a big hug. BTW, I think it's awesome that you give so much of your time and energy to the sport, but.... I'm not sure you're doing local folks any favors by conditioning them to expect that. They'll be in a world of hurt if you get burned out, or decide to move to idaho. Edited February 25, 2015 by motosapiens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 I have been to Idaho. I wouldn't blame them for leaving to go there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihocky2 Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 I can say for certain that Ontelaunee is the USPSA and even IDPA club you want to check out. I know the MD for Ontelaunee used to help out with stages and setup for another club, but has had to step aside from that because his own match takes up so much of his time. Their monthly matches sometimes rival major matches. The director is a great guy and gets a lot of help. The club is adding 6 or 8 more bays on top of their 8 or 10 already. The club that went to 3-gun switched simply because the MD liked shooting 3-gun better and has great sponsorship, so that is what he runs. Guthsville dropped USPSA for several reasons: lack of help, MD burnout, and club politics. I don't live very far from Schuck. county and wish there was more USPSA, I shoot IDPA only because it is more prevalent. Until Ontelaunee started it back up, I had to drive 90 minutes to the closest USPSA. A lot of the MD's that were running USPSA are an aging group and just didn't have the energy anymore. Until someone younger steps in to take it over, like Ontelaunee did, the sport dies at those clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 I have been to Idaho. I wouldn't blame them for leaving to go there! Shhhhhh....... No seriously, I would welcome shooters or dirtbikers with open arms. Goodness knows we have enough stinking hippie democrat vegetarians moving here. It's nice to have better thai food and more breweries, but it'll suck if enough of them move here to make it like the places they are escaping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prov1x Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Sarge pretty much sums up what I do as well in his longer post above. I run 7 stages, including a classifier. It takes us, 2 guys remember, 3 to maybe 4 hours to set up. Most matches I use about 22 to 25 walls, build nice bigger stages, have at least two movers per match etc. If you want to read some of the comments about my match they can be found on the other website for sooners. I try to make my match fairly difficult but still fun. I want my matches to prepare people for major matches. Not just a simple hosing match. We hang targets etc the morning of and register shooters for 30 to 40 minutes prior to the match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prov1x Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Sounds like I am luckier than most. I probably get closer to 10 to help set up on Saturday afternoon. It still takes us a good 4 hours to do things right. Hell, maybe I'm doing things wrong and trying to have good quality stages with good round counts. All we do on match morning is hang targets. Last year I started the raffle idea for set up help. I raffled off a gun last year and this year it will be an SDB Thanks to Brian! I still only charge $15 for 5 stages. It seems around here that there are very few who won't help paste, paint etc. But I will say 80% of the shooters at my matches are just there to shoot. Just like it's a major, when it comes to doing anything extra. They will pay their money, get squadded, load mags, and then just watch people work. But I see that at other local matches as well. I guess being an MD myself makes me this way, but when I shoot the other locals I tend to help more than the average shooter, including setting up, ROing etc. I rarely just go to a match and just shoot it. I guess I was born without the, "I'll watch while you work", gene. Probably the most aggravated I have ever been with a shooter was when a shooting buddy looked at me and said "his" time was too valuable to him to get involved in setting up. My time is just as important to me. I just choose to use it helping others have a match to shoot. As to vlad's post. We too shoot at a club with over 2000 members. They have always put our setup on the calendar the day prior to matches. The members all know it so it rarely causes problems. Funny thing is, when we held the state match one of the chief complaints was that we took the range away from membership. When I asked about hosting again part of the deal was to do away with all but a small window of set up time. That's just not possible for a ten stage match so my guess is we will never host another big match. It is after all a rifle club so that probably makes sense. I just don't think a lack of volunteers will ever go away. All you can do is do your best to try to bring people in and do the best you can with what you have. This but with only 2 of us, 3 max. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 I run 7 stages, including a classifier. It takes us, 2 guys remember, 3 to maybe 4 hours to set up. Most matches I use about 22 to 25 walls, build nice bigger stages, have at least two movers per match etc. sounds pretty similar to what we do, except we have 15-20 guys setting up and it takes an hour-ish, and we socialize while we're doing it. It's quite pleasant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prov1x Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 (edited) I run 7 stages, including a classifier. It takes us, 2 guys remember, 3 to maybe 4 hours to set up. Most matches I use about 22 to 25 walls, build nice bigger stages, have at least two movers per match etc. sounds pretty similar to what we do, except we have 15-20 guys setting up and it takes an hour-ish, and we socialize while we're doing it. It's quite pleasant. Do those 15 - 20 guys still pay to shoot the match? As I said before about the other club in the area that tried to do that. It lasted about 2-3 months after people had to start setting up the morning of, still pay to shoot and then tear down. It just doesn't work like that around here unfortunately. The bigger city in our area, on nice days, gets around 75-100 shooters. My match, is growing by the way, usually gets around 30-35 people on a nice day. For some reason or another our city doesn't get a whole lot of turnout for the USPSA matches. I think IDPA gets around 20-30 and 3 gun gets around 30-40 and 3 gun charges $40 per match. I have started a facebook page for our local match to try and garner some more attention to it and to get more people involved. Maybe I need to start posting some fliers at our club a week or so before our match and see if I can draw some more people in that way as well. Edited February 25, 2015 by Prov1x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 I run 7 stages, including a classifier. It takes us, 2 guys remember, 3 to maybe 4 hours to set up. Most matches I use about 22 to 25 walls, build nice bigger stages, have at least two movers per match etc. sounds pretty similar to what we do, except we have 15-20 guys setting up and it takes an hour-ish, and we socialize while we're doing it. It's quite pleasant. Do those 15 - 20 guys still pay to shoot the match? As I said before about the other club in the area that tried to do that. It lasted about 2-3 months after people had to start setting up the morning of, still pay to shoot and then tear down. It just doesn't work like that around here unfortunately. The bigger city in our area, on nice days, gets around 75-100 shooters. My match, is growing by the way, usually gets around 30-35 people on a nice day. For some reason or another our city doesn't get a whole lot of turnout for the USPSA matches. I think IDPA gets around 20-30 and 3 gun gets around 30-40 and 3 gun charges $40 per match. I have started a facebook page for our local match to try and garner some more attention to it and to get more people involved. Maybe I need to start posting some fliers at our club a week or so before our match and see if I can draw some more people in that way as well. Everyone pays. Almost everyone helps setup. Everyone helps tear down. we really only have a handful of slackers that show up at the last minute. They are generally mocked. I'm not sure why it works here. I think it probably helps that it's made clear when you join the club that volunteer help is expected, regardless of what discipline you shoot. It may make a difference that most folks don't travel too far. Hardly anyone has to drive more than 40 mins. I know if folks come from further away, no one really worries about whether they help with setup, and I know when I travel to far away matches (2 hrs), I don't worry about getting there early enough to help with setup, but I still stay after for the 10-15 mins it takes to tear down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 We have about 8 clubs, and most have 6-8 people to set-up. But we have a bunch of pure consumer shooters as well. Some I have never seen set-up, tear down or do anything more than tape a target here and there. A few of the Seniors, honestly, I don't really care if they help set up and tear down and they help re-set. I think a LOT of it has to do with the lax section policies for new shooters. We now have a section safety course, but some of the MDs refuse to do it, where we explain the whole enchilada, as well as the volunteer sport aspect. We have one MD who is very vocal about the last consumer shooters, which is a benefit to the rest of the section, but it will take some time to turn it around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 (edited) When we are done shooting, each squad tears down the stage they finish on, then folks gang up on the 1 or 2 empty stages. I think folks would get called out pretty quickly if they tried to just walk away from the squad when everyone started teardown, and it literally only takes 5-10 minutes if everyone grabs 1 or 2 things. Our storage shed is set up pretty centrally tho, and we have a little ATV/trailer to run around and pick up poppers and walls from the furthest bays. Good point about new shooters. I often give the new shooter briefing at our matches, I'll have to remember to reinforce the expectation of helping out with setup/teardown. Thanks for turning that light on for me. Many hands make light work. Edited February 25, 2015 by motosapiens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racknrider Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Mainly shoot IDPA. I do set-up at my club but not any of the other clubs where I shoot. Just a matter of time and convenience. It is much easier to pay my $10-15 and just shoot and relax. I will SO if asked, it doesn't bother me. If guys that do the work at other clubs come to our match, we don't ask them to help so they can just enjoy shooting. Everyone does tear down at the end. My biggest disappointment is being in a club with 600+ members and having only 3 or 4 show up for a match.So you pay your $10 $15 to shoot and relax, perhaps the same $10-$15 the other guys pay to show up early and set up your stages and shoot. I get it when life gets in the way. By no means am I a model citizen when it comes to always helping set up. But let's not kid ourselves that we are " customers" because we pay a match fee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Miles Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Goodness knows we have enough stinking hippie democrat vegetarians moving here. It's nice to have better thai food and more breweries, but it'll suck if enough of them move here to make it like the places they are escaping. Givum time, it will happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racknrider Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 At all the places I shoot the people that do set up shoot for free. I'm happy to support other clubs but I think or at least hope that the membership would be responsible for setting up their own match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 At all the places I shoot the people that do set up shoot for free. I'm happy to support other clubs but I think or at least hope that the membership would be responsible for setting up their own match. Which membership? The Clubs's or USPSA? I'm asking this because for the match I run, two thirds of the shooters are not members at the local club. Hell, some of them are not members at any club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 At all the places I shoot the people that do set up shoot for free. I'm happy to support other clubs but I think or at least hope that the membership would be responsible for setting up their own match.Which membership? The Clubs's or USPSA? I'm asking this because for the match I run, two thirds of the shooters are not members at the local club. Hell, some of them are not members at any club.Small minority of my match shooters are members of my club as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 I wish I lived closer to a club so I could help some. I drive 2 hours to the nearest USPSA match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 I wish I lived closer to a club so I could help some. I drive 2 hours to the nearest USPSA match. Move to idaho. You'll be close to multiple clubs. And much better dirtbiking trails than maryland too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Something tells me the fishing isn't as good though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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