Alternative paper target

[Bruno]

I think it opens up stage design to clubs with limited range facilities. It's a lot cheaper for new clubs to be creative if the cost of steel is a factor. Indoor ranges would welcome a new scoring target.

[shred]

What's the target stand for one of those look like?

[MikeFoley]

We used them with two 1"x2" and a standard target stand that we use for the official target.

[Jim Norman]

Interesting.

I assume that this would be an alternate to plates for Level 1 Matches? Why not a similar alternate for poppers? Use only the upper portion and mount it to a stick so the top of the popper is the same as a stell unit.

For our indoor matches we made steel shrouds for steel, but this would be easier and quicker to set up.

I don't think we would use them at our outdoor matches. Seeing the steel fall is just too much of the sport to go away from.

So, I am in favor, but only in a limited use.

Jim Norman

[PhilTerry]

Doesn't the IPSC Classic Target get close enough to this dimension to fit the bill?

[Merlin Orr]

"One round per target unless othewise specified." Why this wording? Why not Comstock unless otherwise specified?

[Flexmoney]

Bruno,

I don't know about the "one hit" thing. That would mean changing more (of the rule book) than just adding a target.

[Nik Habicht]

Bruno,

I don't know about the "one hit" thing. That would mean changing more (of the rule book) than just adding a target.

I think that Bruno is proposing an alternative to a steel target, that would function, more or less, as a replacement for steel, for places where you can't safely shoot steel, or to allow a club to start up inexpensively and add steel as they can afford to pay for it.....

Could probably be done by creating a separate appendix page for replacement (non-steel) Steel targets. Might want to allow identical construction out of cardboard painted a color other than brown.....

[wide45]

It is not the most foolish thing...

I don't see a point to trying to imitate steel with paper. If you can't set up steel, just don't. Don't pretend you are.

Will two 8" FauxPlates scoring one shot each take up that much less space than one Classic that scores best two?

[AikiDale]

It adds the variety of steel where steel is not an option. A plate requires only one hit to score an A. No B,C or D shots. Five points or nothing. A miss costs you 10 points. Variety is good! I like it.

[wide45]

Variety?

It is the same as taking a regular target and making everything but the A-zone hardcover.

Is that something you want to start using a lot?

[diehli]

I like it, too. Imagine how you could mindf@#$ someone by putting 4 or 5 of 'em at 3 yards. Must go FASTER!!! Can't do that with steel. Talk about adding some interesting variety to stages. Then there's the plus for new clubs: start up costs plummet without the need for steel.

[wide45]

Imagine how you could mindf@#$ someone

Nice attitude.

Sigh...

New clubs never needed to buy steel.

[AikiDale]

For the price of a couple of 2x4s and a package of paper plates you can set up the Bianchi Plate and do The Test as part of a match. I like humanoid targets, but I've shot enough of them to have gotten over any vestigal resistance to shooting them....It's about the shooting not the targets. The paper plates would also make life easier for the set up guy than painting hard cover on a metric target. More variety for the shooter, stage designer and easier for Mr. Setup. Whats not to like?

[Jake Di Vita]

You wouldn't be mind$%#&ing someone with that target...if they miss a 3 yard target it's because theu mind#^$*ed themselves.

I'm slightly in favor of the idea, but don't really see a reason for it past level 1 matches. Shoot, I've already shot them in level 1 matches around here.

[Dead Buff]

To start this again...why an 8" round paper target if we could use the A4/A3 targets as per rifle/shotgun rules...very cheap...scores double hits....

But then again, the thread that was started on that had zero support....Thread

[diehli]

Imagine how you could mindf@#$ someone

Nice attitude.

Sigh...

You wouldn't be mind$%#&ing someone with that target...if they miss a 3 yard target it's because theu mind#^$*ed themselves.

Exactly my point, Jake... nice to see someone got it. This is another way to test someone's skill.

There's a huge difference between shooting an A-zone only target and a (paper) plate. The visual input is completely different.

[Dead Buff]

See this thread for the origins of the A4/A3 targets

[JFD]

I have to second the notion that new clubs haven't ever been required to buy steel. The "new club start-up cost benefit" doesn't wash. The regular local match I shoot uses very little steel and it appears to have zero impact on attendence.

I believe USPSA gets a cut off of USPSA approved targets now. Doubt they'll be thrilled by the suggestion of paper plates, so I'd stick with asking for another approved type target.

Personally I could care less if any match I shoot ever uses it. Fake steel has nothing to offer that can't be done with a metric target and a can of paint, besides requiring only 1 hit. Sounds like someone could be desperate to get that 9th round in their "arrays", otherwise I just can't see it's purpose. Upper A/B zone only is a more difficult target. I've shot enough 8" circle -0 zones at 3 yards at IDPA matches to know it's neither challenging, nor interesting.

Of course that's just me. I'd lose no sleep if the idea was to be approved, same as I could care less if it isn't. I'd rather see clay pigeons approved for handgun matches. Cheap and fun to shoot.

[Chuck D]

Back in the "old" days...when practicing for matches like the steel challenge or the falling plate event at the Cup, we used to make "fake steel plates" all the time out of any paper product that was white in color. This accomplished two things. First, it taught the shooter to rely on reading the sights while breaking the shot therefore you wouldn't rely on "hearing the steel ring" to know if you hit it or not. Secondly, you didn't have to "buy" a ton of plates and/or lug them around every time you wanted to practice.

Wide45: You'd be interested to know (if you didn't already) that the indoor ranges at Magnum and GCL in the late 70's to early 80's used different colored balloons for steel and stop plates. CSC used balloons outdoors when we first got started. Many clubs don't have the resources to buy steel and indoor ranges in particular have special circumstances that prohibit them from using steel.

Bring on the 8 inch paper plates !

[Flexmoney]

Just so everybody knows what target Dead Buff is talking about...I captured the image.

There is an approved shotgun target (IPSC) that is 8.5x11 inches (size of a regular sheet of paper). There is also a target that is 11x17 inches.

These tagets would stand the best chance of getting approved for handgun (IMO).

[EricW]

I could understand the need for cheap targets if I lived deep in the heart of Tasmania and could not get cardboard targets or the cost of shipping was triple or quadruple the price of the target.

When a USPSA Metric target sells for $0.50 delivered here in the US, the "need" for a mini target to save money eludes me a bit. I can almost guarantee that unless clubs buy 8" carboard targets in the handy, shrinkwrapped bazillion pack, that the 8" circle with the perfs will cost as much or more than the metric.

I'm not even sure you buy a thick paper plate (like Chinet) that won't flop around in the wind for 50 cents each...

[Bruno]

Thanks to everyone who's commented on this pole.

Who knew it would spur this much interest!

Bruno

[SmittyFL]

Dumb.

[Jim Norman]

OK, Lets look at the reasons for this suggested target, where would we use it and why.

The 8" paper circle or popper could be used in places such as some indoor ranges where steel is problematic. I would limit the use to Level 1 matches.

I don't think that cost is the real issue. We are talking about a group of people that shoot $1000 guns and drive $30000 cars to matches. If USPSA gets a cut from the licensed Metrics and Turtles fine, but we are not talking about stopping the use of these targets, we are talking about generic steel targets. I don't know, but I think that there is no fee attached to these.

I am in favor of allowing these and scoring them the same as the steel they replace. As to color, I suggest that any color other than natural cardboard be used, same as steel.

There is a definate difference to shooting an 8" plate over shooting the A zone of a Metric, even if we paint out the B, C & D zones. You still have the target shape to start aligning on. If you are shooting a plate, you have a greatly different visula set of cues as to when to break your shot.

As I stated elswhere, shooting steel indoors can be a problem. We have steel shrouds that stop splatter, but they make it difficult to set up some arrangements. There is also the cost of these shrouds and the weight, as well as the additional setup time.

Like so many other things, We don't have to use these targets, but if they are available, then at least we can. Unlike so may other changes, I, at least can see no downside, provided that the Level 1 requirement remain.

Set up is simple, just put the paper plate or paper popper on a regular target stick and put the stick in a regular target stand.

A simple, cheap, improvement to the sport.

Jim Norman.