TangoShooter Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 What is your procedure if your gun has to be completely unloaded at the start. I use a Baikal MP153, lifter is locked if gun is decocked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shakman Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 I can't address your shotgun specifically, but I can give you what I would do in this situation with my M2. If the option is available to start the stage with the bolt locked back, you could: 1. Grab a stack of 2 2. Drop 1 into the chamber and release the bolt 3. Load 2nd shell into the magazine 4. Quad-load the rest until you reach magazine capacity This way, when you're done, the gun is up and ready to rock as soon as you're done loading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Therealkoop Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Cant you cock the gun and close the bolt? I would just pick it up, load the tube, and rack the bolt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddy2 Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 I will load four rounds pull the trigger to put one on the lifter and rack it on the way to grab four more rounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Miles Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 I can't address your shotgun specifically, but I can give you what I would do in this situation with my M2. If the option is available to start the stage with the bolt locked back, you could: 1. Grab a stack of 2 2. Drop 1 into the chamber and release the bolt 3. Load 2nd shell into the magazine 4. Quad-load the rest until you reach magazine capacity This way, when you're done, the gun is up and ready to rock as soon as you're done loading. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waktasz Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Grab 4, drop one in chamber, whack button with bottom shell, stuff one and then two into the tube. Shot my first match in a lonnnnng time this weekend, was 14 degrees so the fingers were not fast, but I did this and it worked great. You can't really see it on the video but it's here at 2:53https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RW81E-KoktI#t=174 Brain must have been cold too because I thought about racking the thing even though it was already hot. Rust... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinT Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Leave the hammer cocked, load 8, pull trigger to spit one onto lifter, rack and go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TangoShooter Posted January 20, 2015 Author Share Posted January 20, 2015 Thanks for all the inputs, have to do some serious experimentation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJW Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Out of curiosity, while I have ended up using the "pull trigger" method to prime my M2 (either after an empty start or at the occasional match that prohibits loading the carrier), I wonder if anybody has used this particular method at a USPSA multigun match. The reason I ask is that USPSA rules (okay, I know the pistol rules but am assuming that safety rules carry over to multigun) basically say it is a DQ for unsafe gun handling to have your finger anywhere in the trigger guard except when aiming at a target. (On an empty start, I stage the M2 with the carrier latch engaged, rack the bolt to lock open as I pick it up, then I port load a deuce and back that up with 2 quads for ten in the gun at start. Works for me since my shotgun does not hold 12 rounds in the tube.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveT-NV Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Leave the hammer cocked, load 8, pull trigger to spit one onto lifter, rack and go. Also, in partial reply to CJW's post. This method gives me a little pause. While the shooter "knows" their isn't a round in the chamber, the method has the potential to violate at least two of the laws of safe gun handling. Rule : Treat every gun as if it is loaded. - When you pull the trigger to get a round on the lifter, you are treating the gun as if it is unloaded. Rule: Keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to fire. - If you are pulling the trigger in a rush to get the gun loaded, are you ready to fire and are you sure the gun is pointed in a safe direction? I know these are technicalities, but if you train to pull the trigger while you are not truly ready to fire, then this could lead to an AD under pressure. I prefer to quad load four, use my forefinger to hit the shell release button, then rack the slide. For me, using the forefinger is a little more reliable than using my thumb. I don't think you lose much, if any time when doing this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aquaticvisions Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I agree with Steve 100%. The only time you should pull the trigger with ammo in the gun is to shoot a target. Safety takes priority over all else and while you may be confident that pulling the trigger will only load a shell and not shoot anything, Murphy is a real S.O.B. and he will catch up with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinT Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 If I extend the same line of reasoning, I end up with the conclusion that I shouldn't dryfire because I might put a hole in the wall. Everything is a calculated risk, including my decision to get out of bed this morning. I might very well get hit by a bus today. The shotgun should remain pointed downrange and into a berm. The trigger should only be pulled after shouldering. My brain is fast enough to keep up with my hands. If you just started, this might not be the method for you. The little silver button works great too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJW Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Right, and this is why I wasn't bringing up the subject of whether the practice is "right" or "wrong" in any larger sense. (I think it is wrong to have matches unfairly discriminate against Benellis by prohibiting rounds on the carrier and adding a step to an empty chamber start. ) I do think, though, that there are specific rule sets (USPSA in particular) where the RO can (and, really, should by the letter of the rules) DQ someone for this practice and I wanted to know if anybody has run across that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euxx Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Out of curiosity, while I have ended up using the "pull trigger" method to prime my M2 (either after an empty start or at the occasional match that prohibits loading the carrier), I wonder if anybody has used this particular method at a USPSA multigun match. The reason I ask is that USPSA rules (okay, I know the pistol rules but am assuming that safety rules carry over to multigun) basically say it is a DQ for unsafe gun handling to have your finger anywhere in the trigger guard except when aiming at a target. (On an empty start, I stage the M2 with the carrier latch engaged, rack the bolt to lock open as I pick it up, then I port load a deuce and back that up with 2 quads for ten in the gun at start. Works for me since my shotgun does not hold 12 rounds in the tube.) Actually, the USPSA wording is like this: ---- 8.4.1 When loading, reloading or unloading during a course of fire, the competitor’s fingers must be visibly outside the trigger guard and the handgun must be pointed safely down range or in another safe direction authorized by a Range Officer (see Section 10.5). ---- Then from the glossary: ---- Loading: The insertion of ammunition into a firearm. Loading is completed when ammunition is inserted and firearm is in battery, (slide forward or cylinder closed), and ready to fire. ---- So, technically, by those rules you are done loading and can pull the trigger. If you don't like that, you can also push the shell release button, but it is just smaller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amccallister Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I load the the shells then hit the shell release and rack. I have no issue with people pulling the trigger, but I prefer not to. In practice last weekend I had no problem getting a hit on steel in less than 4.5 seconds from port arms with an empty start (8 shells loaded). I don't think I'm giving up time to very many people by not pulling the trigger to release a shell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kjdowning18 Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I personally hit the shell release button when I stage the gun. Rack the bolt as I'm picking the gun uo and then load as normal. My a5 auto loads into the chamber for me at that point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCK Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 I am a right handed shooter and I quad-load weak hand. I leave the bolt closed with the hammer cocked, load the mag tube, pull the trigger when the shotgun is shoulder, rack the bolt with my left hand from the under side of the receiver. I also use this same technique if I run the shotgun dry, the only difference is I hit the bolt release before I flip the shotgun over to quad-load weak hand. I have shot USPSA Multigun Area matches, the pull the trigger method is not an issue as long as you have the shotgun shoulder. If you use the pull the trigger method and you don't shoulder the shotgun before you pull the trigger you are asking for a DQ for unsafe gun handling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveG Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 If the stage brief doesn't state the bolt has to be forward I load one in the chamber and hit the bolt release then load until mag is full. If the bolt has to be forward load chamber hit shell release then rack a round. I tried it once at a 3GN match with pulling the trigger but it just felt wrong safety wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openclassterror Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 (edited) We make an extended shell release latch that we use in competition so the release is coincidental with the bolt-racking movement. In match conditions, you would load tube with 2 (or 3) quads, then rack the bolt while sweeping the "Benelli Button". Here is a slo-mo youtube video showing me using the palm of my hand to sweep the extended latch. Strong hand duo is demo-ed here. It works equally well for weak-hand loading quads or duos, but with a different technique- Full speed- Edited January 28, 2015 by openclassterror Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Leave the hammer cocked, load 8, pull trigger to spit one onto lifter, rack and go. This. Learning to pull the trugger rather then try to find the little silver button to release a shell from the tube into the lifter on a Benelli or Stoeger is intermediate stuff. If you're not sure if the chamber is loaded don't ever pull the trugger unless you're in target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openclassterror Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 So, assuming a strong hand load- 1) hand comes off the grip 2) toss duos or quads 3) re-acquire grip 4) pull trigger 5) hand comes off grip and moves forward to bolt handle 6) rack bolt 7) re-acquire grip. Man, that is a lot of unnecessary movement of your control hand. Jeezo Pete! Just weld up the Benelli button already! Eliminate steps 3 through 5 altogether. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 So, assuming a strong hand load- 1) hand comes off the grip 2) toss duos or quads 3) re-acquire grip 4) pull trigger 5) hand comes off grip and moves forward to bolt handle 6) rack bolt 7) re-acquire grip. Man, that is a lot of unnecessary movement of your control hand. Jeezo Pete! Just weld up the Benelli button already! Eliminate steps 3 through 5 altogether. You should be racking with the support hand. Just like clearing a malf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinT Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 I watched the videos, explain the Benelli button to me or hit me with a link. Benellis run so well that I'm leery of messing with anything to gain .5 seconds over a 12 stage match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 BTW, I'm not sure you can REALLY DQ someone for pulling the trigger to load their gun. I know there have been a few times where I picked up a gun, forgot the chamber was empty, aimed at a target and pressed the trigger. Click or shuck follows. Oops .... was I being forgetful or was I loading a gun? In some cases that is obvious, in others I'm not sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 (edited) BTW, I'm not sure you can REALLY DQ someone for pulling the trigger to load their gun. I know there have been a few times where I picked up a gun, forgot the chamber was empty, aimed at a target and pressed the trigger. Click or shuck follows. Oops .... was I being forgetful or was I loading a gun? In some cases that is obvious, in others I'm not sure. Why would anyone get DQ'd for pulling the trigger purposely as long as the gun is pointed in a safe direction no matter if it on an empty chamber of if you're burning a round? Edited January 30, 2015 by Jesse Tischauser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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