Center hold vs 6 O'clock hold

[NicVerAZ]

I am pretty sure this is a classic question, but I could not find it using the search engine. Any link to other similar threads would be appreciated.

I am well sighted and get all of my shots grouped inside of a 2" radius around the center of the target with the target at 10 meters and when I use a center hold.

But I realized today that most of my shots were too low. Indeed if I try to concentrate too much on the target when working my accuracy alone, I also drop naturally. On freshly painted small poppers, I could see that my hits were all well below the circle area. A target partially covered by a no shoot below received two shots in the no shoot while I was sure to be aiming for the brown right above.

My guess is that I am doing this wrong and that I should probably opt for a 6 O'clock hold as it seems natural that the eyes want to keep seeing the targets while shooting at them without completely obscuring them, which would be unnatural.

Before I give my sight one click up to start with, what are in general the pros and cones of both?

And what is the most recommended in practical shooting?

Obviously this does not concern open shooters using a red dot.

Thanks for all your help in advance.

[aandabooks]

For me USPSA guns are set for center hold. My Bullseye guns are set for 6 o'clock.

[Sarge]

Go to advanced search and type "6 o'clock hold" with the quotes. You should get 144 results on the subject.

Somewhere in all of that I wrote that I prefer 6 oclock hold with iron sights because it kept me from shooting too low in the excitement and hitting the no shoots that seem to like hanging around below the A zones.

[DGS]

I prefer a center hold for USPSA. Either works equally well once you get used to it.

[grapemeister]

Center hold for fiber optic and factory white dot inserts. 6 o'clock for black iron sights. 6 o'clock for all types of sights when shooting anything beyond 25 yards.

[Butterpuc]

I prefer the Center Hold. I used to shoot a 6 o'clock hold, but would find myself "on the clock" sticking that bright red fiber optic dead on exactly what I wanted to "hit". Sure enough I would occasionally miss head shots high. I switched to shooting Center Hold for all my fiber optic front sights. It works for me.

[msg73]

I use the middle sight picture

[Solidgun]

Only time I use 6 o'clock hold is for 10m and bullseye where the distance is fixed. Otherwise, it would be useless for some of the hidden targets.

[akeefer]

I really can't get used to 6oclock. It just seems wrong to me. Maybe I'm weird, but that's what it feels like to me. Especially nowadays with fiber optic sights.

[Sarge]

For you guys talking about FO sights if you do some searching on here you will find one of the pitfalls of the FO is that guys use it as the aiming point. Actually the top of the sight is still the reference you want to use. The FO is just supposed to bring your eyes to the sight blade quicker. In short, as I understand it, the dot is not for aiming at all.

[NicVerAZ]

What msg73 uses is the 6 o'clock hold.

I think that most folks confuse sub 6, which is the typical bullseye hold, with 6 o'clock, where the point of aim is right at the top of the front sight.

[NicVerAZ]

For you guys talking about FO sights if you do some searching on here you will find one of the pitfalls of the FO is that guys use it as the aiming point. Actually the top of the sight is still the reference you want to use. The FO is just supposed to bring your eyes to the sight blade quicker. In short, as I understand it, the dot is not for aiming at all.

I think there is a natural amount of curiosity in the human mind which makes us lower the sight to at least take a peek. Placing the red dot dead on completely conceals the target.

"What's in the box???" basically.

Edited January 4, 2015 by NicVerAZ

[Butterpuc]

For you guys talking about FO sights if you do some searching on here you will find one of the pitfalls of the FO is that guys use it as the aiming point. Actually the top of the sight is still the reference you want to use. The FO is just supposed to bring your eyes to the sight blade quicker. In short, as I understand it, the dot is not for aiming at all.

I think there is a natural amount of curiosity in the human mind which makes us lower the sight to at least take a peek. Placing the red dot dead on completely conceals the target.

"What's in the box???" basically.

I think you both have valid points, but I find Center Hold to be much quicker. Now days the fiber optic is so close to the top of the blade I don't think it matters as much. For my personal reasoning, I don't what to train my brain to look my red fiber optic and think "don't put the glowing red dot on the target where I want the bullet to hit, put it under the target where I want the bullet to hit". Then grab my AR with a Red Dot and tell myself the put the red dot directly covering the target. That's just me. I'm weird like that.

[rooster]

With a sight alignment where the front sight is centered and even with the top of the rear I want my impact to be at the top of the front sight. That way your impact is not covered by the sight. To me a traditional six hold is really shooting about 6 to 8 inches high depending on what bullseye target your using. The 6 hold is used because you have the same point of aim repeatedly at the bottom of the bullseye, but your impact is the center of the bull.

[cakedog02]

My dad is a rancher that grew up with old school six shooters. Mainly colts. He always taught me to use the 6 o'clock hold because that's what worked with those old western guns. It took me awhile to learn the center hold but now I like it much better.

[cakedog02]

I do not like the 12 o'clock hold though. I had a sig that had that hold and I really hated having to cover the whole target in order to be accurate.

[cakedog02]

Needless to say I sold that sig. My glocks all shoot perfect with the center hold.

[cakedog02]

My CZ 75 also shoots well with the center hold.

[mike4540]

I prefer the center hold, I tried the 6 o'clock but could not get used to it.

[nitrohuck]

I like my gun to hit about 2" high at 15yrd.

That means for pretty much all shots I aim center mass, but for the headshots I get to hold 6'clock, right "neck" area of the target (which is much easier for headshots in my opinion)

Also it means I get to see a bit more of the center of the poppers and steel plates.

Granted my shooting buddy who is a Master class shooter, and much better than I, said this was NOT a good idea, he sided with the center-hold guys.

Idk, I always liked being able to have more of my target in view, sitting above the front sight.

FWIW - Just had my gun rebarreled and the rear sight is maxed out in height and it just hits dead center, it has taken me a bit to try to get used to this as I keep sending shots low due to my 2" low hold I have been used to.

[Frank48]

Which of these is actually a six o clock hold? I always thought it was the first one, but NiceverAZ says it is the 2nd one. Regardless, I prefer the 2nd one, but the terminology is critical for clarity in this discussion.

I use the middle sight picture

[grapemeister]

Which of these is actually a six o clock hold? I always thought it was the first one, but NiceverAZ says it is the 2nd one. Regardless, I prefer the 2nd one, but the terminology is critical for clarity in this discussion.

I use the middle sight picture

Ok, I'll give it a shot. I know the 1st one, with out a doubt, is the 6 o'clock hold or pumpkin on a fence post as some folks call it. The 2nd one is most commonly referred to as a center hold, although I've heard some refer to it as a dead on hold. The 3rd one is a cover up hold, or hold over. And, some also refer to the 3rd one as a dead on hold. It seems like the term "dead on' should apply to the 2nd one, at least that's what I remember the older shooters calling it as I was coming up.

I'm just as guilty as anyone else on getting the terms mixed up. For example, I said in an earlier post that I prefer a 6 o'clock on longer distance targets, over 25 yards, when I actually use the center hold, not the 6 o'clock. I use the hold over/cover up hold on targets at 25 yards and closer.

[NicVerAZ]

Which of these is actually a six o clock hold? I always thought it was the first one, but NiceverAZ says it is the 2nd one. Regardless, I prefer the 2nd one, but the terminology is critical for clarity in this discussion.

I use the middle sight picture

Ok, I'll give it a shot. I know the 1st one, with out a doubt, is the 6 o'clock hold or pumpkin on a fence post as some folks call it. The 2nd one is most commonly referred to as a center hold, although I've heard some refer to it as a dead on hold. The 3rd one is a cover up hold, or hold over. And, some also refer to the 3rd one as a dead on hold. It seems like the term "dead on' should apply to the 2nd one, at least that's what I remember the older shooters calling it as I was coming up.

I'm just as guilty as anyone else on getting the terms mixed up. For example, I said in an earlier post that I prefer a 6 o'clock on longer distance targets, over 25 yards, when I actually use the center hold, not the 6 o'clock. I use the hold over/cover up hold on targets at 25 yards and closer.

Then I may have been wrong in what I thought each was.

I also use the 2nd one.

[BeerBaron]

Which of these is actually a six o clock hold? I always thought it was the first one, but NiceverAZ says it is the 2nd one. Regardless, I prefer the 2nd one, but the terminology is critical for clarity in this discussion.

I use the middle sight picture

Ok, I'll give it a shot. I know the 1st one, with out a doubt, is the 6 o'clock hold or pumpkin on a fence post as some folks call it. The 2nd one is most commonly referred to as a center hold, although I've heard some refer to it as a dead on hold. The 3rd one is a cover up hold, or hold over. And, some also refer to the 3rd one as a dead on hold. It seems like the term "dead on' should apply to the 2nd one, at least that's what I remember the older shooters calling it as I was coming up.

I'm just as guilty as anyone else on getting the terms mixed up. For example, I said in an earlier post that I prefer a 6 o'clock on longer distance targets, over 25 yards, when I actually use the center hold, not the 6 o'clock. I use the hold over/cover up hold on targets at 25 yards and closer.

agreed. assuming in all that the POI is right at the centre of the bull then the first is 6 oclock hold. the 2nd is a centre of mass hold/centre hold and the last is a cover up hold.

The problem with that is the sights are obscuring what you want to hit. for me it's a 6 oclock hold. I want the bullet hitting above where I put the sights (or the red dot). even on the open gun I want the bullet hitting just about the dot. almost like 2 circles on top of each ohter. so on a plate I put the dot near the bottom of the plate and bullet hits in the centre. assuming I do my job of course.....

[grapemeister]

Bottom line; If you're using fixed sights, use the hold that works. If you have an adjustable rear, use what works for you.

In my case, for example, I've used fiber optic sights from two different manufacturers and using their recommendations for my gun a long with fixed rear sights, the holder over/cover up hold sight picture worked when shooting a plate rack at 25 yards. And, it's proved accurate for all other closer distances. I remember when I installed my first fiber optic sights with a fixed rear I was shooting high at 50 yards when trying to use the hold over sight pixture. When I switched to a center hold I was "dead on" .