calvinc78 Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Question? I have a open gun that runs new or once fired brass that came out of that gun with no issues, but when I try and run range pickup brass that have bought off people it won't run a whole mag without having a feed issue. Gun won't go in to battery. Locks up about 1/8" out. I use a EGW U die All loads case gauge and barrel drop test fine. My load is 115's 1.252 MG JHP Reading on 38super.net JHP's Max length should be 1.220 Could it be I'm loading a little to long? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRobson Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 It's that big ass rim on the end of the cartridge causing all the trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sniper3 Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 I agree with DR, had the same issue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMike Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 I know you stated 38 Super and you might be just a shade too long at 1.252 but I load 38 SC to 1.235-1.240. I am having no problems whatsoever with new or used brass. Most people I know try to load to 1.235. Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ofishl1 Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Are you using SuperComp Brass or regular Super? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calvinc78 Posted December 30, 2014 Author Share Posted December 30, 2014 Are you using SuperComp Brass or regular Super? Super. Only have issues when I try and use brass that was not new when I started. Once, twice fired Starline that was new has no issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Check extractor tension. Check the brass with your calipers, especially the extractor groove. I had some brass that fit every gauge and my barrel, but would not feed at all. Problem was extractor groove was .004 too large. Doesn't sound like a lot, but it was enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 i have never loaded below 1.235 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ofishl1 Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 I load to 1.245-1.250 in full size Bedell .38 Super flawlessly....it will not run Super Brass consistently....maybe try SuperComp (small rim)....your extractor may not be set up for Super Brass... Starline SuperC runs 1.385 on the rim.....Super runs 1.400..........may be just enough to cause some issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMike Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Check extractor tension. Check the brass with your calipers, especially the extractor groove. I had some brass that fit every gauge and my barrel, but would not feed at all. Problem was extractor groove was .004 too large. Doesn't sound like a lot, but it was enough. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calvinc78 Posted December 30, 2014 Author Share Posted December 30, 2014 Thanks guys. I'll look into the extractor tension. It is a aftec and I've tried it with 2 springs and only 1 spring in the rear with no change. Still doesn't run range brass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.Elliott Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Extractor tension for sure but it sounds more like an oal issue to me. I have a Bedell as well and while I run 38 SC in it @1.235", you can feel the difference in the feed cycle as the oal approaches or exceeds 1.250. At 1.235" it cycles like butter whereas above 1.250 you can feel the bullet hit the ramp and retard the feed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superdude Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Overall length is always relative to what will fit in the magazine and a specific gun's chamber and what will feed reliably. The 1.220" at 38super.net is a specific reference to Sierra JHP bullets, and in specific reference to the author's gun. The Sierra bullets have a really short nose and bullets of this type often require a shorter overall length to fit in many chambers. As noted at the website, other flat nose bullets (i.e. hollow point) can often be seated to 1.240-1.260." But, again, it depends on your magazine and chamber and what feeds reliably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 I run a super, also. If the slide is hanging out of full battery position by only about 1/8 inch or less then I'd say it is one of two issues:1. Bullet OAL - try loading a little shorter. For MG 115/124 JHPs I load them 1.235-1.240" (I try to keep them closer to 1.235) For MG115/124 FMJ or CMJ I use 1.250" 2. Case length too long. This one is a little trickier. Range brass is all over the map when it comes to condition. I have found is that when some cases have grown longer than about 0.908" in length then my guns will hang about 1/16 - 1/8 out of battery. Using a U-die is a good thing overall for bullet hold and to prevent bullet set-back, but it makes the cases grow as the brass has to go somewhere during the sizing process. Case gauges won't reject cases that have grown in length. Sometimes I use some pretty crappy range brass and have resolved the case too long jam issues by sizing/depriming the cases first (using a u-die), and then gauging, inspecting, and checking for case length prior to loading. After loading I do the normal gauge check with EGW chamber checkers. It is a little more work, but once prepped the range brass is good to go in my guns. Checking the case length isn't that hard and I can do about 1000 in less than 20 minutes using a caliper or parallel clamp set to allow only a max dimension of 0.904" long cases to pass through. Next time you get a just-out-of-battery jam keep the round(s) that caused that jam and take them home and do some analysis. I would examine the case and see if you see any telltale signs of rifling engagement on the bullet, re-gauge the bullet to make sure it fits your case gauge, measure OAL of the case and bullet, remove the barrel and and chamber check to see to make sure it spins freely and is not engaging the rifling, using your barrel chamber check to see if it is standing proud past the barrel hood (you may need a straight edge or blocks to do this as it might only be a few thousands of an inch). After looking at these things I'd pull the bullet and again measure the empty case length (lots easier now with the bullet out of the way) and see if just the empty case chambers. Don't slam the slide on the empty case as you will force it in, might even want to have your recoil spring removed when you do this. If it is hanging just out of battery with just the empty case then you pretty much have it narrowed down to the case length issue. Anyway, I have a bag of cases that are over my guns case length tolerance just waiting to be trimmed. If you want any to test your chamber let me know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calvinc78 Posted December 30, 2014 Author Share Posted December 30, 2014 Thanks Guys I use all this and figure something out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob DuBois Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 More times than not extractor. Put an Aftec in my Tripp built Super once fitted runs 100% Shooting range brass. Went to a Lee standard die size die instead of the U die also. Seemed the U die was working the brass to much. Aftec has been in the gun for about five years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dansedgli Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 I'd go with bamboo. If the slide is nearly home the case should be under the extractor just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calvinc78 Posted January 4, 2015 Author Share Posted January 4, 2015 Did some testing and found that I beleive Bob you nailed it on the head. After the match on Saturday I ran roughly 150 rounds and had 7-8 that would stick about a 1/8" out. Case guaged all fine. Went home and pulled the bullets. Every one of them measured over .902 and my new Starline comes in at .892 and no issues at all with them. Thanks again for the help guys. Guess I'll just stick with buying new brass and not range pick up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Guess I'll just stick with buying new brass and not range pick up. GULP....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 (edited) Calvin, I meant to check in with you yesterday to see how things were going. Anyway, If your chamber is reamed to only allow .902 then I would consider reaming with a .38 super Nonte reamer so your chamber will accept a max case length of .908- 910. SAAMI spec is something like .917 but that is with the case headspacing off the rim and is deeper than you want to go with a modern 38 super which headspaces off the mouth. You can check with your local Gunocologist (Pruitt) and he should be able to do that for you easy. If not, I have a Nonte reamer and would do it...but I'd check with Dave first since he built that gun. No reason you can't run range brass, you just need to get to a place where you and your gat's chamber have a mutual understanding. Edited January 5, 2015 by Bamboo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calvinc78 Posted January 4, 2015 Author Share Posted January 4, 2015 Guess I'll just stick with buying new brass and not range pick up. GULP....... I don't mean new brass all the time lol. Haven't had any issues with brass I bought new and loaded multiple times. Just stuff that's been shot out of other guns first. Seems to give me issues Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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