Please help me select the right progressive press for my needs

[zhangla]

I shoot IDPA 9mm, about 1000-1500 rounds per month currently. Looking to increase the consumption to about 2500 rounds per month.

For the past few months, I have been using my single stage RCBS press. It has been painful and time consuming. I am ready to upgrade to a progressive system, but I have some unique needs...

1. Due to limited space and the lack of a good loading location, I have to set up and take down the press at least once a week. Basically I need my system to be fairly portable and can be stored in a box if not in use.

2. Aside from that, I just need a system to load 300-400 rounds 9mm per hour. That would be good enough for me. I probably do not need any feeders (case or bullet) to reduce the space needed, and makes the take-down easier I suppose.

Give those, I have been researching 3 machines:

- Dillon 650 (I really like the powder check, but without feeders, would 650 be just another 550?)

- Hornady LNL AP

- RCBS Pro 2000

I have seen Hornady LNL AP set up in my local Cabelas, and it is a monster in size. Does not look like it is easy to take it down and store it. I have no clue how big the Dillon or RCBS is at all.

Can someone with experience with these machines please provide some insights?

Thanks.

[rtp]

I'll give you the short answer - on BE, you will will be overwhelmed by Dillon fanatics.

With that out of the way...I'm very happy with my LnL AP, but could have gone either way between that or a Dillon 650.

I'm sure someone out there is running an RCBS progressive, and happily, but after far too much OCD-feeding research, I just saw too many complaints and/or issues on progressives other than the LnL AP and Dillons to consider one.

Note the Dillon 650 is not 'just a 550' without the case feeder - it and the LnL AP are 5 stations and auto-indexing, while the 550 is 4 stations and manually indexed. Why do you care? Well, many of us prefer to seat and crimp in two different steps, which uses another station, and some like to run a lockout or powder check die..e.g.

decap/resize

expand

drop powder

seat bullet

crimp

or:

decap/resize

drop powder and expand via powder through die expander

powder check

seat bullet

crimp

It only gets to be more fun when/if you decide you want to add a bullet feeder. (basically second set of options above - powder check)

As far as size goes, the Dillons and Hornady are comparable in size to each other. What you could do is either mount the press to a length of 2x8 and then clamp that to a work surface when you're using it, unclamp when not..a 'nicer' alternative might be to use something like the Inline Fabrication bench mount, and just unbolt the press when not in use...assuming you could leave the mini strong-mount in place.

I believe there's also a Lee and/or Frankfort Arsenal 'loading bench' that can be weighted, and/or the mounting plate bought separately, which may be worth considering, depending on how/where you plan on mounting the press, or if that's an issue in itself already..

Wit the powder measure and dies removed (~5 seconds on LnL AP, or remove the entire toolhead for the Dillons, also fast), and no case feeder or bullet feeder, all of the presses (550, 650, LnL AP) if mounted on a ~10" 2x8, are fairly portable and able to be moved around...not like a single stage, but honestly, shouldn't be a big deal.

[zhangla]

rtp,

Thanks for the great and detailed information. I really appreciate it.

I currently have my RCBS single stage mounted on a 10''x8''x3'' wood board that is clamped to my desk. It works really well and take-down only takes a few seconds to unclamp. How heavy is the Hornady LnL AP compared to a single stage, if I don't have the feeders? I just want to see if my desk can handle that thing mounted on a simliar 10''x8''x3'' board.

Thanks.

Edited November 11, 2014 by zhangla

[drewbeck]

You can check the weight on Hornady sight. Mine has been bolted so long I can't remember but I would guess 30lbs ish.

I also recommend the Hornady. You can just get the bullet feed die and plastic tubing and have a super simple bullet feeding press without dealing with the moving and size constraints. If in the future you want to lock it down and get a case feeder it is easily added to the system. It is less expensive than the Dillon and you don't really have the space to maximize the Dillon investment.

I too have live the board mounted press dream in a small high rise condo. The wife wasn't real happy with me putting it on the glass coffee table but I never broke either and crunched out a lot of ammo during that time.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hi-Power Jack]

Sounds like you're loading only 9mm minor, and worried about simplicity,

small size and light weight ....

If will NOT do 300-400 rounds/hour, but you might find the Square Deal

(Dillon) to meet your needs ...

Quite a bit smaller and lighter than the 550 or 650.

But, slower, limited to specific dies, and less flexible.

[LilBunniFuFu]

I have a LnL that I've used for 9 for a while, only shot production, but then I picked up a SDB in 45 for cheap. It's lightweight, easy to use, fits your needs, much cheaper than the other option. If you are only going to be shooting 9mm for a while I second Jack's vote for the SDB. If you are dead set on one of those three, I give the vote two either the 650 or the LnL. Both have their quirks but once you get them set up they while serve you well.

Also recommend the inline fab flush fitting mount for super easy removal.

[rtp]

The weight sounds about right - Midway shows the LnL AP shipping weight at 32#. It's not 'light' but it's also not a huge deal to move it around.

The SDB may win on size, but I'm not sure what else? It's retail is $380 from Dillon, which is in the LnL AP range when on sale.

4 stations (but does auto-index), proprietary dies, along with the 'Dillon oddity' of needing to take your hand off the handle to feed a case in right hand, but place bullet w/left...has to slow down production rates. It is a neat little machine, though - I'd probably pick one up at a used discount, but not retail vs the LnL AP.

It is a good point about caliber(s), though.

OP - are you contemplating ever loading rifle, or calibers besides 9mm?

[rtp]

Also recommend the inline fab flush fitting mount for super easy removal.

Wow, these guys just keep coming out with more and more, don't they? I'd never seen that one before on their site.

OP, here's the link to it - worth checking out their other products, as well..

http://inlinefabrication.com/products/flush-mount-quick-change-system-base-plate

[LilBunniFuFu]

Also recommend the inline fab flush fitting mount for super easy removal.

Wow, these guys just keep coming out with more and more, don't they? I'd never seen that one before on their site.

OP, here's the link to it - worth checking out their other products, as well..

http://inlinefabrication.com/products/flush-mount-quick-change-system-base-plate

Only issue is that to make it flush fitting, you have to route your work space to fit the mount. After that is is a very sleek piece.

[427Cobra]

You could mount a 650 to something and c clamp it to the desk but that will old quick, there are things I liked about the LNL, but I mostly like that it's gone, 650 set up quick, and has been flawless and almost twice as fast as my LNL, my first 100 rounds took me 30 minutes, next 400 took 30 minutes, now I regulary load 9mm in the 800-900 rounds a hour range

[rishii]

I would go with the 550, smaller foot print and you can easily load 400-500 rounds and hour

I wouldn't get a 650 without the case feeder, everytime you stop to load the case feed tube, it takes minutes away from loading ammo

As far as the LnL, I got a buddy who always talks highly of his, until he saw me load ammo on my 650, and said my press can't do that

[ramairbrc]

RL550.

[rtp]

As far as the LnL, I got a buddy who always talks highly of his, until he saw me load ammo on my 650, and said my press can't do that

What was he referring to, primer ski jumps?

Seriously, was it something specific?

I've briefly run a 550, and wouldn't trade my LnL AP for one + cash. No doubt the 550 can produce good ammo, but I wouldn't do that trade.

I'd be thrilled to find someone local with a 650 to compare notes or even swap presses for a week or two.

[Mahlsan]

I have a square deal and I love it, once I get into a groove and have presort end the brass I can get 500 in about 1.5 hours. The best I have done is 500 in an hour and fifteen.

[Bob DuBois]

Ok I like Blue it's given me Great service for over thirty years. One of my friends years back mounted a 550b on a Work Mate. Would fold it

up and put it in a closet when not in use. More times than not set it up at the end of his bed and loaded setting on the end corner of the bed.

Later bought a portable building built a bench and loaded there.

550 in my mind is the best entry level machine out there. Changes over quickly and you can use any standard die set. Pick up an AR use it like a single

stage press to prep brass. Make a mistake loading, a collet bullet puller works quicker than hammering out bullets. If you ever have a problem

your dealing with the best customer service out there period. My 550 is thirty years old Dillon sent new parts to rebuild the lower part free.

Square deal will out run a 550 but you are stuck with Dillon dies and can only load pistol calibers. Own a gun with a tight chamber Square deal

won't cut it.

I run Lee standard sizing dies or the U die in station one on every caliber I load. Lee's sizing die will size closer to the extractor groove

and tighter than other brands. Lee's seating die has a adjustment knob on top for small adjustments to OAL. Use A Dillon crimp die as I don't care for

the FCD. More than you wanted but a 550 will be with you a long time loading any caliber you purchase next with a simple tool head and shell plate change.

Edited November 11, 2014 by Bob DuBois

[zhangla]

Thanks everyone who have made valuable recommendations.

It looks like Dillon Square Deal B is what I am buying, after watching some youtube demonstrations. Although it does require both hands to feed brass and bullet, it can still be fast - at least faster than I needed it to be. I don't mind that at all, since I did not plan to use the case/bullet feeder on the 650 for now anyway (maybe in the remote future). It is also very slim and would fit really well on my mounting board.

Thanks everyone!

[rtp]

I have a square deal and I love it, once I get into a groove and have presort end the brass I can get 500 in about 1.5 hours. The best I have done is 500 in an hour and fifteen.

That's not bad, actually, it's 400/hour, more or less.

I run anywhere between 400-600/hour on the LnL AP most days, but never really went for an 'all out' session.

[Hi-Power Jack]

I love my SDB but have never been able to load more than 225 rounds, or so,

per hour on it - I check the brass headstamps as I'm loading, and include

the time to load primers and load ammo into boxes.

[CDRGlock]

I have two Dillon 550s and it is unnecessary for me to auto index or have an automatic case feeder. I'd rather check and make sure each step is down before I move to the next step.

I reload 45 ACP on one machine and 38+P/357 magnums on the other machine.

[darkvibe]

Not a press but maybe for you.

http://www.thec4m3ron.com

[safeactionjackson]

About a year ago I started reloading. Similar volume requirements of 1500-2000 rounds per month.

I shied away from the xl650 as most recommended the 550b for noobs (and it is a great press).

That said, I quickly out grew the 550b and was soon looking to upgrade. I found that spending 3-5 hours in front of the press was not something I was very interested in. I had done about 500 rounds per hour on the 550b, but later slowed it down to about 400 rounds per hour. This meant on an average month I was spending at least 5 hours running my press, I'd often try and get a months worth of reloading done in a night or two.... which wasn't all that bad, but I still felt I was spending to much time making 9mm.

If you are somewhat mechanically inclined and cost isn't an issue I'd say start with the xl650, as you can always add the case feeder at a later date..... and you will add the case feeder as it will increase your output substantially. When it came time to insert a progressive press into my workflow I opted for the s1050, and have been extremely happy with it (although complete caliber conversions will put a butt kicking on your wallet).

I know a lot of people that have SD and speak very highly of them (even tho they can't do rifle rounds, and use proprietary dies), but the proprietary dies and lack of rifle support kept it from being a viable option. Although I had no plans of reloading rifle, I preferred to have the option.

Personally I have no experience with the RCBS/Hornady presses you mentioned.... most of my reloading has been done on blue machines.

~g

[johnsons1480]

Not a press but maybe for you.

http://www.thec4m3ron.com

This doesn't inspire a ton of confidence in their product

[RDA]

Not a press but maybe for you.

http://www.thec4m3ron.com

This doesn't inspire a ton of confidence in their product

Indeed, but they couldn't spell Cameron correctly either so I didn't have high hopes...

[rishii]

As far as the LnL, I got a buddy who always talks highly of his, until he saw me load ammo on my 650, and said my press can't do that

What was he referring to, primer ski jumps?

Seriously, was it something specific?

I've briefly run a 550, and wouldn't trade my LnL AP for one + cash. No doubt the 550 can produce good ammo, but I wouldn't do that trade.

I'd be thrilled to find someone local with a 650 to compare notes or even swap presses for a week or two.

I didn't ask, he mentioned having to fiddle with stuff to make it run

[rtp]

I have two Dillon 550s and it is unnecessary for me to auto index or have an automatic case feeder. I'd rather check and make sure each step is down before I move to the next step.

I reload 45 ACP on one machine and 38+P/357 magnums on the other machine.

No argument on the case feeder, but some of us believe manual indexing seems to be involved more often than not on over- or double-charges. YMMV; I look in each and every case as well, and consistently leave the ram fully up in the event of an unexpected interruption (or clear the plate) but wouldn't give up auto-indexing. YMMV, as always.