bigdawgbeav Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 No freakin' way! Looks like I'm gonna have to start saving for a new gun... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kraj Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 That would be cool, is it going to be a new division? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Watson Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 Either that or Compacts. Apparently not both. Optics would be a new arms race and a bonanza for gunmakers and gunsmiths on the downside of the ObamaPanic. But I don't much favor the arms race part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick88 Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 So when does the Wilson mini dot sight hit the market for this new division. :-) Kidding aside this is going to explode for idpa... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Antichrome Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 idpa must really want to grab an extra dozen uspsa shooters that wanted PO... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v1911 Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 I'll wait till they get some serious do's and don't's for modifications before I get too excited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooke Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 Slide mounted optics will someday be the norm for handguns. They make accurate aim simple even for those whose sight is not perfect. since the dot is focused at about 25 yards in appears in space and is visible along with the target. The curse of poor near vision is gone. These things are great. I have a Trijicon RM02 on a Glock 17 and it rocks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick88 Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 This guy is ready for it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryKee Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 This class sounds very interesting. Agree to the above post about the what can we do and can't do.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWHlctx Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 The proposed rule changed stated it must me mounted to the slide. I'm new to the idea of mounting a red dot to the slide of a pistol. How is the sight mounted to the slide? From the few examples I've seen, it appears the slide would need to be drilled and tapped for mounting hardware? In general, how stable (tough) are the sights. I seems like the sight would take a pretty good pounding mounted directly to the slide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToddKS Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 There are various mounting options depending on you model of pistol. My Delta Point came with a set of mounts for most common pistols (of course my pistol was not among them so I had to order a mount from Springer). The mounts tend to be specific to both the model of pistol and the model of sight. There are also a limited number of optics that will tolerate "slide ride" based on the reading I did on the topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooke Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 (edited) My Trijicon RM02 on a Glock 17 is mounted in a milled slot just ahead of the rear sight slot. The sights have been replaced with suppressor sights so they are tall enough to be used instead of the red dot. This configuration is available from several places. Mine came from One Source Tactical. The Trijicon has been extremely durable. It is used 4-7 days a week and with a single exception has been flawless. The exception is that the battery can short out against the slide and the sight goes dark. This is a well known failure and when I contacted Trijicon they denied anything about it. Pissed me off big time and I will look for another brand next. I got the solution from a web forum. You just put a piece of tape under the sight so the battery is insulated from the slide and no more problems. There seems to be some misconceptions on forums about these sights. Obviously USPSA Open shooters use them successfully although they are frame mounted and consequently very large overall. The slide mounted ones fit into most holsters easily including my normal CompTac International. These sights are red parabolic mirrors with a red LED mounted behind (closer to shooter) the mirror. The red light reflects off the mirror back to your eye. Light other than red passes through the mirror so you see the target through the mirror with the dot superimposed (at a focal length of about 25 yards). A shooter can see both the dot and the target with his distance vision eliminating the disadvantage older shooters have with poor near vision that when corrected for the front sight reduces target vision. All that is required is to get the dot on target and pull the trigger (without flinching). No need to line up anything but the dot and target. The dot can be anywhere on the mirror (screen) and if it is on the target you will hit it. Nothing about this system illuminates the target like a laser sight does. You can not see a target in the dark any better (or worse) than with normal iron sights. The target might see a dim red glow from the sight, but mine is really dim so it doesn't give your position away easily and nothing like a laser does. Some people have suggested it can not be seen in either dim or full sunlight. Not true at all. It is superb in low light and completely visible in full sun. If it were not it wouldn't be useful in USPSA. I have shot the gun in full sun without any issue whatsoever. These sights allow quick target acquisition, accurate aiming, and good visibility as long as your vision is properly corrected for distance. They will soon be standard police equipment because of all the pluses. They are now standard equipment on military rifles. We need a class for them to keep older shooters and to stay ahead of the dinosaur curve. They are not a threat to shooters using iron sights in IDPA because they wont't compete against each other. These are the future of pistol sights. Edited November 6, 2014 by Brooke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdawgbeav Posted November 6, 2014 Author Share Posted November 6, 2014 Just have to remember to turn it on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not-So-Mad Matt Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 Just have to remember to turn it on!There are battery-free, tritium-illuminated models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joninwv Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 There are also now sights that come on based on motion. You draw the firearm, and the sight is on by the time you can get it to eye level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcc7x7 Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 (edited) I did the M&P core idea about 4 years ago with a delta point. Very fast very accurate! I could shoot same cof's 15 to 20% faster and with less points down! Will have to be a new division Edited November 6, 2014 by jcc7x7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooke Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 Just have to remember to turn it on! Actually that is not true. My Trijicon stays on all the time. The battery is said to be good for 2 years. It is now 1 year old and good to go. It has no on-off switch. It wouldn't be a very good carry gun if you had to turn it on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcc7x7 Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Delta points are supposed to turn on when moved. Mine stays on all the time even when still on the night stand. Batteries last for over a year with no worries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWHlctx Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Slide mounted optics will someday be the norm for handguns. They make accurate aim simple even for those whose sight is not perfect. since the dot is focused at about 25 yards in appears in space and is visible along with the target. The curse of poor near vision is gone. These things are great. I have a Trijicon RM02 on a Glock 17 and it rocks! Brooke, have you got a picture of your setup? I've got an older model G17 I thought I would get a red dot mounted on if this "optic" division actually comes about. Near vision?? Don't even know what it is. I've got a magnifying glass duct taped to the back of my slide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooke Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Slide mounted optics will someday be the norm for handguns. They make accurate aim simple even for those whose sight is not perfect. since the dot is focused at about 25 yards in appears in space and is visible along with the target. The curse of poor near vision is gone. These things are great. I have a Trijicon RM02 on a Glock 17 and it rocks! Brooke, have you got a picture of your setup? I've got an older model G17 I thought I would get a red dot mounted on if this "optic" division actually comes about. Near vision?? Don't even know what it is. I've got a magnifying glass duct taped to the back of my slide. I will take a pic today and post it. Since the possibility of this div was announced I have spent more time than usual with the G17 and red dot versus my G34 with Dawson sights. At 10 yards or less I can't tell any difference in scoring or time. Beyond that target acquisition/aiming is faster and followup shots are quicker. Since I'm pretty poor at 25 yards (I'll blame my vision but that is not the whole story. I'm just bad.). The red dot starts to make me look actually good versus sucking at extended distance. Pics later Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooke Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Here are some pictures. The first on shows a closeup of the RM02 in its milled slot. That provides a flat spot for installation and lowers the sight so that the suppressor sights are located near the center of the mirror The second pic shows the overall gun and the third shows what you see when you look at the sight. You can see the red dot right at the tip of the front sight. It is much brighter and redder than in the picture. Now think of leaving the gun in the orientation of the picture and just moving your head. The dot will move left/right and top/ bottom (or both) depending on how you move your head. It does not matter...as long as the dot is superimposed on the target the POI will be at that point. It is not necessary to line up the dot with anything but the target...not the iron sights or anything else. I hope these Flickr links work. I have not done this on this forum before. IMG_0066 by kentucky4, on Flickr FullSizeRender by kentucky4, on Flickr FullSizeRender1 by kentucky4, on Flickr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Watson Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 The best outfit I have seen was years ago, a USPSA shooter here was campaigning a G24 with the old Tasco sight milled in as deep as possible without cutting into the working parts. Very fast and handy. For some reason she bought a Caspian slide but did not have it machined, just perched the Tasco on top of the slide in one of those dovetail adapters. That raised the sight over a quarter inch which made the transition harder for an iron sight shooter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyK Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 (edited) Since one of the main ideas behind the IDPA is that you can go to the store buy a gun off the shelf and some ammo and shoot a match, just why create a division for guns that may be the future but are not here in large numbers yet? Why not bring in the full race guns of IPSC? Edited November 10, 2014 by TonyK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Watson Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Why not just shoot IPSC?Oh, wait, we don't shoot IPSC in America. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooke Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 This lifted from another website: "For those looking to recreate a little history of their own, cap and ball revolvers are a great place to start. With so many different styles to choose from, selecting the model that is right for you can be a daunting task - here is what you need to know to get started along the cap and ball path." The G17 fitted with a red dot shown in my earlier post was purchased as a carry gun for my wife because her vision with everyday glasses greatly diminished her accuracy beyond 10 yards. The red dot makes her extremely accurate at 25 yards and probably beyond. It is strictly for self and home defense and it's great for that use. Her accuracy is not gun handling related. It is strictly vision and nobody is going to wear special glasses to the grocery store so they can shoot if necessary. A woman had her throat cut in a grocery store at mid morning in a random attack right here in mid America. Grocery store and big box parking lots are frequent places where armed robberies and car jackings occur. I'm giving her, and sometimes myself, the best possible chance to drill a scum bag. If you oppose IDPA going to a new division with new technology, then why not return to the cap and and ball revolvers above. Who draws the line in the history of technology? Nothing is more for self defense than something you can use with effectiveness when necessary. Arguing that red dots are rare in actual use is ridiculous. Their newness and the fact that only the M&P CORE is currently milled by the manufacturer for a slide mounted red dot is not a reason to oppose them. How long do you think it will take for other manufacturers to offer a milled slide gun? Not very long!! Most people are not going to seek out a source for a custom job as I did. When the rules are published there will be a rush to the division, guns will be available, and red dot prices will drop as a result of volume created by familiarity. The police should all have these things now. It's just a budget problem that will cure it self as prices decline. For once let's get ahead of the curve and not fight progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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