2011 for duty carry ?

[Light700]

Go with http://store.legionfirearms.com/mobile/Product.aspx?ProductCode=LFP they run great

[STInky]

I think I may have a compromise......I'm looking at the Sig X5 series. You get the dependability of Sig, still able to chose single action only models, and mags are more readily available. Sig X5 Entry in 9mm is looking pretty promising.

[The Blade]

Interesting topic and your ideas on carrying a X5. Lots of great guns out there for you to choose from but for me besides caliber it all comes to weight. I was an active cop and had no problem chasing a Jit several blocks. The weight of a 2011 all day long would get to me and probably drive me crazy with the weight grinding into my hip and lower back all day. I carried a G21 for eight years and if going back on the job today I'd carry a G41 just cause they take so much abuse and I can armor on them right in the field if necessary. Install a Lightening connector, a set of Trijicon HD's and call it a day. I just shot a friends X5 tonight and loved the trigger but commented on the weight of it.... Heavy.

[RangerTrace]

I really think the weight matters a lot less if you're carrying in a full power patrol rig, aka double belt, sam brown, etc. Now if he's a detective, carrying like I do, with a single pants style belt, the weight matters more in my opinion. The X5 would be a nice option, especially if they offer it with an aluminum frame.

[STInky]

I really think the weight matters a lot less if you're carrying in a full power patrol rig, aka double belt, sam brown, etc. Now if he's a detective, carrying like I do, with a single pants style belt, the weight matters more in my opinion. The X5 would be a nice option, especially if they offer it with an aluminum frame.

Yep, 16+ years in patrol gear. Several ounces or even two pounds is not gonna make a huge difference with the Sam Brown rig.

[BSeevers]

I've been carrying my STI Tactical 5.0 as my duty pistol for several years now, with no complaints or

reliability issues. The pistol also serves double duty as my Limited gun.

Do you think knowing somebody that knows how to tune STI mags helps?

[Givo08]

Consider the 9mm if you have a better gun you would rather carry. Although the 9mm is generally decried as "underpowered" based on specific misinformation in the general domain, data shows the best 9mm defense rounds are about the same as .40 and .45 ACP. If you give up a couple of percent in OSS with 9mm, you get an increase in round capacity.

http://www.handloads.com/misc/stoppingpower.asp?Caliber=0

http://www.chuckhawks.com/handgun_power_chart.htm

"One shot stops" are a fallacy, and Marshall and Sanow have extremely flawed data. Look at the FBI Terminal Ballistics studies if you want real statistically sound information.

[bountyhunter]

I have read the FBI analysis. It has a decidedly political tone (coming a couple of years after the infamous Miami shootout) where the "weak" 9mm cartridge was indicted as a major problem and the "need" for the 10mm service cartridge came about. Ironically, I recall only two agents in that shootout had a 9mm, most had .357 revolvers.

The FBI study:

"The tissue disruption caused by a handgun bullet is limited to two mechanisms. The first, or crush

mechanism is the hole the bullet makes passing through the tissue. The second, or stretch mechanism is

the temporary cavity formed by the tissues being driven outward in a radial direction away from the path

of the bullet. Of the two, the crush mechanism, the result of penetration and permanent cavity, is the only handgun wounding mechanism which damages tissue.

To cause significant injuries to a structure within

the body using a handgun, the bullet must penetrate the structure."

So penetration is paramount (I agree) and penetration is basically inversely proportional to bullet diameter, since the wider bullet encounters more resistance passing in and slows down more rapidly. So it would seem a well propelled small diameter bullet (like a .357 magnum hollow point) would be preferred, not the flying ashtray.

As for bullet mass:

"Goddard amply proves the fallacy of "knock-down power" by calculating the heights (and

resultant velocities) from which a one pound weight and a ten pound weight must be dropped to equal the

momentum of 9mm and .45ACP projectiles at muzzle velocities, respectively. //////

A bullet simply cannot knock a man down. If it had the energy to do so, then equal energy would

be applied against the shooter and he too would be knocked down. This is simple physics"

And ammo makers agree. Notice that EVERY (not most, every one) makes the more lethal "defense rounds" of all popular cartridges (.38, .380, 45, 9mm, etc) by reducing the bullet grain weight and upping powder load for more velocity. If more mass meant better lethality, the opposite would be true.

The FBI report is wrong here, or at least incomplete:

"Increased bullet mass will increase penetration."

Only if that increased mass is driven by more powder so it's velocity and linear momentum increases. If you just make the bullet more massive, it won't make it more lethal unless you crank up velocity with it.

This one goes in the DUH file:

"Given adequate penetration, a larger diameter bullet will have an edge in wounding effectiveness."

But you have to drive the larger diameter bullet harder (more powder and recoil) to get the same penetration a smaller bullet would have for given powder drive. One of the main reasons the 10mm was dumped was because female agents could not control the recoil of the weapon.

The "theme" that the report seems to be going for is the one they were pushing at the time: larger caliber is better. They were trying to justify Cooper's 10mm round which was eventually dumped.

I am not a subscriber to the myth that the .40SW is significantly less lethal than .45 and that the 9mm is "underpowered". Shot placement is paramount, and somebody who has a 9mm gun they shoot well should not feel it is "inadequate" IMO.

Edited September 27, 2014 by bountyhunter

[M'Lady]

I have been carrying a SVI for about 10 years now. I carry it with standard LE 40 ammo (Winchester Ranger). I have not had a problem with reliability. Like everyone else has said, just make sure you continuously check your gun.

[redwoods]

I carry an STI Tactical 4" with aluminum frame while on duty. Its a 40 and I use Federal Hydra-shok ammo now, but we are switching to the win ranger rounds.

I used to carry a 5" steel frame model, but wanted to cut the weight so I went with the 4" aluminum frame which is 28 ounces, much closer to the glock 22 and 21s that we are issued if we want one. We can carry anything that is reliable, accurate, and that we can shoot well with. the glock is not a good fit for everyone.

Only one time did not gun not go off during a training since my hand was too high on the beavertail and I had to regrip the gun.

It is reliable with the ammo I shoot.

I use a 126mm mag and then the 140mm mags for my two extra on my belt.

Randy

[HHPD56]

I've been carrying my STI Tactical 5.0 as my duty pistol for several years now, with no complaints or

reliability issues. The pistol also serves double duty as my Limited gun.

Do you think knowing somebody that knows how to tune STI mags helps?

It certainly helps Bill

[awmp]

I have been hoping for sometime that our Department (Sheriff) would get away from the Glock 22 but we are not getting issued Gen 4 Glock 22s so my hopes have been dashed. In our Dept regulations specifically state no single action pistol will ever be allowed. That being said I trust a full size Wilson 1911 45 as my off duty weapon and I'm still trying out a LW 38 Super Colt Commander that I may end up with as my off duty.

My back will argue with you about weight on a leather belt. I'm about to drop my second pair of cuffs off my belt and put them in the truck. If someone comes up with one more item of "good idea gear" on my belt I will have to put on some serious weight to get a bigger belt.

[RangerTrace]

I have been hoping for sometime that our Department (Sheriff) would get away from the Glock 22 but we are not getting issued Gen 4 Glock 22s so my hopes have been dashed. In our Dept regulations specifically state no single action pistol will ever be allowed. That being said I trust a full size Wilson 1911 45 as my off duty weapon and I'm still trying out a LW 38 Super Colt Commander that I may end up with as my off duty.

My back will argue with you about weight on a leather belt. I'm about to drop my second pair of cuffs off my belt and put them in the truck. If someone comes up with one more item of "good idea gear" on my belt I will have to put on some serious weight to get a bigger belt.

I completely understand the need for shedding weight off of the duty belt. What are you wishing the Department would issue?

[Joe D]

I would NEVER bet my life on a 1911/2011 platform. Especially the 2011. A friend of mine used a 2011 in .45ACP as his duty weapon for several years. What does he use now? Glock 34. Two reasons, reliability and weight.

[RangerTrace]

I would NEVER bet my life on a 1911/2011 platform. Especially the 2011. A friend of mine used a 2011 in .45ACP as his duty weapon for several years. What does he use now? Glock 34. Two reasons, reliability and weight.

Weight is the biggest issue for me. I've carried single stack and wide body 1911s for years without a single issue. But, after 22 years of weight tugging at my hips, I do enjoy a 22 ounce G17.....

[Haraise]

I would NEVER bet my life on a 1911/2011 platform. Especially the 2011. A friend of mine used a 2011 in .45ACP as his duty weapon for several years. What does he use now? Glock 34. Two reasons, reliability and weight.

Weight is the biggest issue for me. I've carried single stack and wide body 1911s for years without a single issue. But, after 22 years of weight tugging at my hips, I do enjoy a 22 ounce G17.....

Did you check what a polymer grip/AL frame/TI or milled slide 2011 would weigh?

[RangerTrace]

I would NEVER bet my life on a 1911/2011 platform. Especially the 2011. A friend of mine used a 2011 in .45ACP as his duty weapon for several years. What does he use now? Glock 34. Two reasons, reliability and weight.

Weight is the biggest issue for me. I've carried single stack and wide body 1911s for years without a single issue. But, after 22 years of weight tugging at my hips, I do enjoy a 22 ounce G17.....

Did you check what a polymer grip/AL frame/TI or milled slide 2011 would weigh?

The weight would be close. The cost would be prohibitive for me.

[AlphaShot]

Fantastic platform, but I think the weight, size and quarks may not be what you want in that situation. Yes we tweak them and work on them and get them to shoot well in a match, but if they jam well than a piece of cardboard that will never shoot back ends up with a Mike or an FTE. If that happens on the job well, I would rather have my Glock on my side on a daily basis.

[shred]

APD SWAT used to carry STI 2011's in .40 with extended mags. They were tuned and worked well but the new chief didn't like cocked-n-locked.