the secret to recoil control?

[JAFO]

When I started working with CoC grippers, I got pain in my elbows. I increased the amount I was working with the bands and it went away. That's why I'm recommending that.

[taadski]

If you do start hitting the CoC grippers a lot, don't forget to work the extensors, too (like with their finger bands). Working only on your closing strength can lead to problems in your hands and elbows.

I don't but the extensor thing. Working opposing muscle groups is more important when it comes to pulling vs pressing muscles. If closing muscles caused a problem then rock climbers would be using extensor workouts more.

Being a long time avid climber, I'll tell you that stretching and balancing the flexors and extensors are one of the most important things one can do to remain injury free. A lot of climbers DO have issues b/c of this type of imbalance. FWIW.

t

[3djedi]

When I started working with CoC grippers, I got pain in my elbows. I increased the amount I was working with the bands and it went away. That's why I'm recommending that.

Been there. I took a break and all is good again.

How do you work the opposing muscles. They sell something just for this purpose?

I just bought one of those gyroscope things and man that thing works the forearms and wrists!

[Wesquire]

If you do start hitting the CoC grippers a lot, don't forget to work the extensors, too (like with their finger bands). Working only on your closing strength can lead to problems in your hands and elbows.

I don't but the extensor thing. Working opposing muscle groups is more important when it comes to pulling vs pressing muscles. If closing muscles caused a problem then rock climbers would be using extensor workouts more.

Being a long time avid climber, I'll tell you that stretching and balancing the flexors and extensors are one of the most important things one can do to remain injury free. A lot of climbers DO have issues b/c of this type of imbalance. FWIW.

t

Most climbers make an effort to do push-ups and pressing movements, but extensors are just always going to be WAY weaker than your gripping muscles. Most climbers get injuries because the muscles develop faster than the tendons, THIS is what you need to be careful about.

[Ramas]

Gyroscopes or finger strengteners is awaste of money and time.

Recoil management comes from few things in my oppinion:

1. It deppends how high yoy grip your gun with supporting hand, especially your palm must be as high as possible.

2. Your other hand must grip as possible as you can be high on the gun (and it is one of the fundamental things you should work allways). It will always be uncomffortable, but it should be it, relax.

3. Lock your elbows.

4. Take forward stance in all possible shooting situations.

Edited August 14, 2014 by Ramas

[Wesquire]

Gyroscopes or finger strengteners is awaste of money and time.

Recoil management comes from few things in my oppinion:

1. It deppends how high yoy grip your gun with supporting hand, especially your palm must be as high as possible.

2. Your other hand must grip as possible as you can be high on the gun (and it is one of the fundamental things you should work allways). It will always be uncomffortable, but it should be it, relax.

3. Lock your elbows.

4. Take forward stance in all possible shooting situations.

It is a fact that a stronger grip will control recoil better. That isn't disputable.

[Supermoto]

3. Lock your elbows.

I disagree with this

[Supermoto]

Double tap

Edited August 14, 2014 by Supermoto

[wtturn]

3. Lock your elbows.

I disagree with this

ditto

[Wesquire]

3. Lock your elbows.

I disagree with this

ditto

Agreed.

Also disagree with "4. Take forward stance in all possible shooting situations." This doesn't really affect muzzle flip at all.

Edited August 15, 2014 by Wesquire

[Magsz]

Locking your wrists has way more of an affect on mitigating recoil than your elbows.

[jroback]

For working extensors, just wrap rubber bands around fingers and then spread your fingers. They sell special bands for this, but rubber bands work fine.

[Jshuberg]

Roll your hands inward slightly and choke the gun high up on the frame. Recoil control is about putting the correct amount of force at the correct location on the gun. You'll find that by introducing just a small amount of inward rotation of your hands at your forearms and/or shoulders, that you can reduce the amount of hand strength you're applying while at the same time keeping the same amount of control on the gun. Hand muscles are small and weak, hard to develop, and will fatigue quickly. Your forearm and/or shoulder muscles you use to rotate your arms inward are already more than strong enough to manage recoil, and are much larger, much stronger, and much less likely to fatigue than your hand muscles.

It's all about applying a small amount of leverage to the gun to produce a larger force. While I could try to use finger strength alone to remove a stuck on nut from a rusty bolt, I choose to use a pliers instead because by doing so I'm not only using stronger muscles, I'm amplifying the force produced by the muscles via leverage. It's the same with your pistol grip, a very slight rotation inward takes your hand strength and amplifies it with your forearm and shoulder muscles, and focusses it high up on the grip where you need it for recoil control.

You still need a decent amount of hand strength when using this technique, but significantly less than if you were gripping the gun with the muscles of the hand alone.

[JAFO]

When I started working with CoC grippers, I got pain in my elbows. I increased the amount I was working with the bands and it went away. That's why I'm recommending that.

Been there. I took a break and all is good again.

How do you work the opposing muscles. They sell something just for this purpose?

I just bought one of those gyroscope things and man that thing works the forearms and wrists!

You can use rubber bands, but you end up having to double or triple them to find a good level of resistance. Ironmind sells this set of 5 resistance levels, and they work pretty well.

http://www.ironmind-store.com/Expand-Your-Hand-Bands153-10-Bands/productinfo/1376/

[Nimitz]

Yeah, never lock your elbows becuase you want them to act as shock absorbers and always lock your wrist tendons ....

[mgardner]

I'm thinking that because a motorcycle has always been my primary form of transportation that may be why I have a good solid grip without resorting to exercise. From holding that clutch lever in traffic and otherwise desperately hanging on for dear life. LOL

[JMike]

Roll your hands inward slightly and choke the gun high up on the frame. Recoil control is about putting the correct amount of force at the correct location on the gun. You'll find that by introducing just a small amount of inward rotation of your hands at your forearms and/or shoulders, that you can reduce the amount of hand strength you're applying while at the same time keeping the same amount of control on the gun. Hand muscles are small and weak, hard to develop, and will fatigue quickly. Your forearm and/or shoulder muscles you use to rotate your arms inward are already more than strong enough to manage recoil, and are much larger, much stronger, and much less likely to fatigue than your hand muscles.

It's all about applying a small amount of leverage to the gun to produce a larger force. While I could try to use finger strength alone to remove a stuck on nut from a rusty bolt, I choose to use a pliers instead because by doing so I'm not only using stronger muscles, I'm amplifying the force produced by the muscles via leverage. It's the same with your pistol grip, a very slight rotation inward takes your hand strength and amplifies it with your forearm and shoulder muscles, and focusses it high up on the grip where you need it for recoil control.

You still need a decent amount of hand strength when using this technique, but significantly less than if you were gripping the gun with the muscles of the hand alone.

This^^^. +1

Absolute genius! I know long time shooters that can crush another persons hand with a handshake but at best, are mediocre shooters.

[OdinIII]

This^^^. +1

Absolute genius! I know long time shooters that can crush another persons hand with a handshake but at best, are mediocre shooters.

+2

Interesting method. I can't wait to try it!

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk

[Wesquire]

Roll your hands inward slightly and choke the gun high up on the frame. Recoil control is about putting the correct amount of force at the correct location on the gun. You'll find that by introducing just a small amount of inward rotation of your hands at your forearms and/or shoulders, that you can reduce the amount of hand strength you're applying while at the same time keeping the same amount of control on the gun. Hand muscles are small and weak, hard to develop, and will fatigue quickly. Your forearm and/or shoulder muscles you use to rotate your arms inward are already more than strong enough to manage recoil, and are much larger, much stronger, and much less likely to fatigue than your hand muscles.

It's all about applying a small amount of leverage to the gun to produce a larger force. While I could try to use finger strength alone to remove a stuck on nut from a rusty bolt, I choose to use a pliers instead because by doing so I'm not only using stronger muscles, I'm amplifying the force produced by the muscles via leverage. It's the same with your pistol grip, a very slight rotation inward takes your hand strength and amplifies it with your forearm and shoulder muscles, and focusses it high up on the grip where you need it for recoil control.

You still need a decent amount of hand strength when using this technique, but significantly less than if you were gripping the gun with the muscles of the hand alone.

Yeah, but your forearm muscles ARE your gripping muscles. The muscles in your hand are largely irrelevant in terms of grip strength gains.

[JMike]

Roll your hands inward slightly and choke the gun high up on the frame. Recoil control is about putting the correct amount of force at the correct location on the gun. You'll find that by introducing just a small amount of inward rotation of your hands at your forearms and/or shoulders, that you can reduce the amount of hand strength you're applying while at the same time keeping the same amount of control on the gun. Hand muscles are small and weak, hard to develop, and will fatigue quickly. Your forearm and/or shoulder muscles you use to rotate your arms inward are already more than strong enough to manage recoil, and are much larger, much stronger, and much less likely to fatigue than your hand muscles.

It's all about applying a small amount of leverage to the gun to produce a larger force. While I could try to use finger strength alone to remove a stuck on nut from a rusty bolt, I choose to use a pliers instead because by doing so I'm not only using stronger muscles, I'm amplifying the force produced by the muscles via leverage. It's the same with your pistol grip, a very slight rotation inward takes your hand strength and amplifies it with your forearm and shoulder muscles, and focusses it high up on the grip where you need it for recoil control.

You still need a decent amount of hand strength when using this technique, but significantly less than if you were gripping the gun with the muscles of the hand alone.

Yeah, but your forearm muscles ARE your gripping muscles. The muscles in your hand are largely irrelevant in terms of grip strength gains.

I agree and respectfully, I think that is what he said.

[Sin-ster]

There's two parts to "managing" (or "controlling" or "mitigating" or whatever) recoil.

You've got 1) the combination of technique and strength of your grip, and 2) your timing. They are not as separate as I've made them to sound-- it's just the only way to explain each concept equally.

I'm not strong. I don't have powerful, crushing grip in my relatively thin hands. Truth be told, I'm not built for recoil management. But you can stick me, and others like me, on the line at 7 yards for a Bill Drill, and we'll hold A's as fast as anyone on the planet can press the trigger.

That's because the technique is sound, the strength is adequate, and the timing is precise. The bad part is... you stick that target at 15+, and things will definitely change. Slap a No Shoot up and cut the A-zone down, and I might well "time" one straight into the perf if I *try* to keep a pace. It's a slippery slope.

You can discover and perfect your technique in dry fire, and from watching videos, reading books and asking questions on the subject. You can improve the strength behind your technique with grippers, exercises... working as a mechanic... weight lifting... What have you.

Your timing is from shooting, and shooting a lot. How effectively you practice will determine how long it takes you to get the hang of said timing, but there's no substitute for it-- and it's equally important as all of the rest.

Think of the technique and the strength as your foundation, and the timing as your REAL area of development. Never truly settle on your technique, but get comfortable with it; don't over-work yourself in the strength department, but keep it up. Put most of your time in on the practice-- it's the important part.

Edited August 19, 2014 by Sin-ster

[jroback]

Technique and strength I get, but please elaborate on what you mean by timing. Are you saying that even with optimal grip technique and strength there is still some recoil, and that timing allows you to break the next shot just as the sights come back on target? Or is there another aspect to timing you're referring to? Thx.

[Sin-ster]

Ever see a really great shooter have a light strike or some other type of malfunction that results in a "click" and not a "bang"?

The gun dips.

That's not because that person is flinching-- you know so because... they never miss! The gun dips because we don't REALLY just "let" the gun return from recoil; we are driving it back down onto the target, as Brian describes it in his book. (That said, the feeling should be that of "willing" or "letting" the gun return, as if you're TRYING to drive the gun, you WILL flinch.)

The difference between driving the gun down and flinching is "timing." (And yes, breaking the shot as soon as you can guarantee the next hit goes into that as well-- though for the purpose of this discussion, it's probably better that we focus on the first part of the process.)

That's why the dummy drill is often poorly used for shooters in our type of sport, as there is NECESSARILY some movement of the gun that's visible when it goes "click" and not "bang". An untrained eye may call it flinch, when in reality, the movement came after the click-- timing.

Now just a side note-- as your target gets smaller (either further away or more tight), at least in my own experience, things tend to change-- and if you're driving the gun down as you would on say a 7-or-fewer-yard target, you'll wind up with some bad hits. It's a totally different feeling, for me, on those targets-- though I know that I'm still timing the gun out, it's less work on my end and more precise/relaxed as a result. (That probably won't make sense unless you've experienced it for yourself.)

[jroback]

1. Wow. This is really interesting. I am not a great shooter, or even a pretty good shooter yet, but I am fairly accurate even when I try to shoot quickly. This gun dipping definitely happens to me when I get a malfunction. I assumed I was flinching, and I was planning on using dummy rounds to work on that, but based on the timing of this movement I think I'm just driving the gun down after squeezing the trigger. This totally changes my perception of what's really happening.

2. Thanks for clarifying what you mean by timing.

[Sin-ster]

The proof is in the pudding, and as your shot calling ability improves, you might even be able to see in the sights whether you dipped the gun before the click or after.

If you're running the gun really fast and hard and you're not dropping shots low, chances are that your timing is solid.

Think of it like this. If you went to a trainer to improve your transitions, but were 100% satisfied with your hits once you actually started shooting... and then he tried to tell you that you were flinching, despite shooting nothing but As... what would you think?

Furthermore, suppose he was RIGHT-- yet you still shot all As, all day, at a world-class pace. Would you even care?