STI Trojan is killing me with feed jams

[Rob01]

Yes the mags have spacers in the back for 9mm. As far as the recoil spring, I am not sure of the weight - its whatever it came from Dawson Precision with. I have about 2,000 rounds through the gun.

I believe recoil should be 13# or maybe a shade higher if hot ammo.

STI puts in a 10 pound spring in 9mm 5" guns. I use a 12# in my .40 major.

From STI site: http://www.stiguns.com/resources/faq/

Q: What is the recoil spring weight in my gun?

A:

• Compensated pistols 8 pounds
• 5″ 9mm guns 10 pounds
• 5″ .40 S&W guns 14 pounds
• 5″ .45 ACP guns 18 pounds
• 6″ 9mm guns 8 pounds
• 6″ .40 S&W guns 12 pounds
• 6″ .45 ACP guns 14 pounds

[Steve RA]

Another magazine trick is to take the spring out and bend the front - toward chamber - coil up at about a 45 degree angle about halfway from front to back. This helps hold the follower up which helps on nose diving rounds.

[bountyhunter]

Yes the mags have spacers in the back for 9mm. As far as the recoil spring, I am not sure of the weight - its whatever it came from Dawson Precision with. I have about 2,000 rounds through the gun.

I believe recoil should be 13# or maybe a shade higher if hot ammo.

STI puts in a 10 pound spring in 9mm 5" guns. I use a 12# in my .40 major.

From STI site: http://www.stiguns.com/resources/faq/

Q: What is the recoil spring weight in my gun?

A:

• Compensated pistols 8 pounds
• 5″ 9mm guns 10 pounds
• 5″ .40 S&W guns 14 pounds
• 5″ .45 ACP guns 18 pounds
• 6″ 9mm guns 8 pounds
• 6″ .40 S&W guns 12 pounds
• 6″ .45 ACP guns 14 pounds

Then they have changed their tune since I bought my 9mm Trojan 5" back in 1995. It definitely came with a 12# spring from STI. And I have used either 12 or 13# for the entire life of the gun (maybe 30k rounds fired).

The Wolff spring page shows the recommended values that Colt has for their 5" 1911. They list 14# for 9mm/.38S.

IMHO, a 10# spring is too light especially if shooting the 124 grain ammo which would have more recoil than 115 gr factory ammo. Just my opinion.

Edited June 29, 2014 by bountyhunter

[trp]

I use a 10# in my 9 with 147 bullets and it runs great I love that gun

[theogre]

I have a simular issue with my 9mm duty one. I figured out with mine it was the flat point on my hp ammo. I started running 124 round nose and it would run all day. Had a gun smith freind do som work on the mags and feed ramp and it runs 100% with all ammo now.

[superdude]

1) The extractor is not the problem. Look at the photo. The cartridge is still in the magazine. If the round is stopping on the feed ramp, it's still in the magazine and it has not engaged the extractor yet. The rim does not slide under the extractor until after the cartridge has nosed-up and the bullet nose enters the chamber and the rear of the cartridge starts to slide up the breech face.

2) Round nose bullets should run fine. Which bullet are you running? Plated or FMJ - by the way, TMJ is plated. Plated (and swaged) bullets tends to be soft and they can hit the feed ramp and stop dead. Hard bullets (cast, FMJ) run better because they bounce off surfaces well. (Flat nose bullets can be a bitch in a 9mm with nosedive.)

3) Cartridge taper contributes significantly to nosedive. The greater the taper, the greater the nosedive. Some brands of 9mm have different amounts of taper. It isn't fair to single out one brand over another since I've seen different tapers from the same manufacturer, but I've noted that some Federal ammo had some of the most taper and the greatest nosedive. The only way to know is to measure it. I've seen some ammo with severe taper that won't let the first round or two out of a fully loaded 9mm magazine. Seriously, the round nosedives so much that the bullet nose catches on the inside of the front of the magazine. It never even makes it to the feed ramp.

4) A stronger recoil spring might be useful, depending on what you have in it now. If it's too strong, and the ammo has a weak recoil impulse (as some factory ammo does), you'll get failures to eject. But the recoil spring needs enough oomph to strip the round from the magazine. Also, with weak recoiling ammo, I suspect that might also induce this type of failure. One thing sometimes suggested is to run some NATO 124 grain FMJ ammo through the gun to see if it runs. It has a stronger recoil impulse and if the gun runs okay with that then underpowered ammo might be behind some of the failures. Maybe.

It sucks when the gun won't run.

If the problem persists, sending it back to STI is not a bad idea. Let them do their magic, and polish the feed ramp etc., to see if that helps.

Good luck.

[bountyhunter]

Well it was at a tier 3 IDPA match, so they chronoed the ammo and it tested fine. I just tried the gun with a Wilson mag and snap caps. I loaded it up with 10 rounds and did a slide lock reload. I then manually cycled the gun and twice on the third or fourth round the slide only closed about 1/4" and the head of the bullet was on the ramp just below the barrel entrance.

Please excuse the crappy iphone picture, but here is an example:

When it is this type of failure a good slap to the back of the slide fixes the issue, but sometimes the bullet head is much lower and it locks everything up.

I just went in and got my Trojan and loaded a mag with some snap caps just to see how much it looked like this picture as I let the slide come forward: the round shown above is in just about exactly the same place as mine.

However, as I look at the picture, the chamber throat has a very sharp edge at the top of the feed ramp and mine was (many years ago) rounded over a bit at that area so it won't let a bullet nose stop in contact with it.... it jumps right in.

Maybe you have more than one issue: the ramp may need polishing and rounding over at the top, but if you have rounds doing the nosedive thing, that's a magazine or ammo issue.

I think any decent gunsmith who could wrap his hands around the gun should be able to fix this pretty well.

[kirbinster]

There really is no measuring tension of an extractor. It has to be tight enough to work and loose enough to let the gun feed.

Call STI and talk to David Cupp--they'll fix it.

But before you do, how old is your recoil spring and what weight are you using? My gun feeds fine with a 10 lb recoil spring and it doesn't even have a ramped barrel!

Started the process and talked to David. FYI please don't give out his name for this anymore as he has not worked in that area in two years now. He even just changed roles in the last month or so. He took my info and will be having someone get back to me.

[texasref]

mag springs are getting weak.

Will happen with any gun.

[kirbinster]

mag springs are getting weak.

Will happen with any gun.

Not likely, most have not seen all that much use. Two of the ones I used had only seen one trip to the range before this match - so the only way they were weak is if they were weak from the factory.

[Endurokids]

I have the same issue with mine as well. My ramp is polished like chrome, and it still jams like yours does both with my reloads and factory ammo.

It's in at STI as we chat and I'm waiting for it to get back. I'm using brand new Tripp Cobra's in it, as the Wilson Combat ETM's were worse is this pistol.

I hope they get this resolved because I really like this pistol.

If not, I see a SA RO 9mm in my future.

Edited July 1, 2014 by Endurokids

[kirbinster]

Well I just got a shipping label via email from them this morning, so back it goes. I sure hope they can fix it as I love the gun and shoot it the best of any gun I have used. Just hate to be without it for what may be six weeks Hope this is just boiler plate and it comes back faster, but the email contained this line:

"We have limited staff in the warranty department and we handle our own calls please allow at least six weeks before inquiring about the status of your repair so we can spend more time working on guns and less time on the phone. If you have any questions just let me know."

[Rob01]

Mine is on it's way back from Tripp today. Was there about 10 days. Hopefully I will be able to try it out in the next few days.

[lcs]

Well it was at a tier 3 IDPA match, so they chronoed the ammo and it tested fine. I just tried the gun with a Wilson mag and snap caps. I loaded it up with 10 rounds and did a slide lock reload. I then manually cycled the gun and twice on the third or fourth round the slide only closed about 1/4" and the head of the bullet was on the ramp just below the barrel entrance.

Please excuse the crappy iphone picture, but here is an example:

When it is this type of failure a good slap to the back of the slide fixes the issue, but sometimes the bullet head is much lower and it locks everything up.

Let me start out with saying I love my STI trojan 9mm pistol. Its is super accurate and I shoot it better than any gun I own. My problem is while it works perfectly at the range, it is getting worse and worse at matches. I am getting so many feed failures that it is killing my game. I shot an IDPA match yesterday, 10 stages and on eight of them I had at least one feed failure. I elected to reshoot a stage because the SO started me wrong on one of those failures even though I shot well, hoping to improve without the feed failure. Well that was a mistake because on the reshoot it failed even worse. So, that actually made 9 out of 11 stages where it failed.

What seems to be happening is the round nose dives and jams and locks things up really tightly. There are times when it is not too bad and I can just give the back of the slide a hard slap and it will go into battery. Other times it jams so tight I can't pull the mag and have to ultimately get it to slide lock and then it is still a struggle to remove the magazine. To say this thing killed my times would be an understatement. At a loss as to what to do.

I had my gunsmith look at it a while ago and he said the tension on the extractor was a little low so he raise it, but I think that has actually made it worse. Yesterday I was using six different 10 round mags: two each of Wilson ETM, Tripp Cobra and Dawson. I saw a slight issue with one of the Wilsons, but other than that I could not narrow it down to any specific brand acting worse than the others.

I have the Dawson Precision CRP package with the IDPA legal extended mag release. Some people said it might have to do with that, but I am skeptical.

All ideas welcomed. Thanks.

PS - if it matters I am using factory round nose 124 grain ammo.

I have found (1) The mag release CAN change the height of the mag!!!!! Which can cause feeding problems. Nose down jams.

(2) Mag springs can cause nose down

(3) Your OAL is to long, but the gun should run 100% on round nose store bought.

I kept my Spartan V stock except for the trigger componets. Various mags and it runs 100% on RN that I load. I load short! My loads are 145PF though. I kept reducing the OAL until success. I also run xtreme plated 124s.

[Pepelepew]

Well it was at a tier 3 IDPA match, so they chronoed the ammo and it tested fine. I just tried the gun with a Wilson mag and snap caps. I loaded it up with 10 rounds and did a slide lock reload. I then manually cycled the gun and twice on the third or fourth round the slide only closed about 1/4" and the head of the bullet was on the ramp just below the barrel entrance.

Please excuse the crappy iphone picture, but here is an example:

When it is this type of failure a good slap to the back of the slide fixes the issue, but sometimes the bullet head is much lower and it locks everything up.

Let me start out with saying I love my STI trojan 9mm pistol. Its is super accurate and I shoot it better than any gun I own. My problem is while it works perfectly at the range, it is getting worse and worse at matches. I am getting so many feed failures that it is killing my game. I shot an IDPA match yesterday, 10 stages and on eight of them I had at least one feed failure. I elected to reshoot a stage because the SO started me wrong on one of those failures even though I shot well, hoping to improve without the feed failure. Well that was a mistake because on the reshoot it failed even worse. So, that actually made 9 out of 11 stages where it failed.

What seems to be happening is the round nose dives and jams and locks things up really tightly. There are times when it is not too bad and I can just give the back of the slide a hard slap and it will go into battery. Other times it jams so tight I can't pull the mag and have to ultimately get it to slide lock and then it is still a struggle to remove the magazine. To say this thing killed my times would be an understatement. At a loss as to what to do.

I had my gunsmith look at it a while ago and he said the tension on the extractor was a little low so he raise it, but I think that has actually made it worse. Yesterday I was using six different 10 round mags: two each of Wilson ETM, Tripp Cobra and Dawson. I saw a slight issue with one of the Wilsons, but other than that I could not narrow it down to any specific brand acting worse than the others.

I have the Dawson Precision CRP package with the IDPA legal extended mag release. Some people said it might have to do with that, but I am skeptical.

All ideas welcomed. Thanks.

PS - if it matters I am using factory round nose 124 grain ammo.

I have found (1) The mag release CAN change the height of the mag!!!!! Which can cause feeding problems. Nose down jams.

(2) Mag springs can cause nose down

(3) Your OAL is to long, but the gun should run 100% on round nose store bought.

I kept my Spartan V stock except for the trigger componets. Various mags and it runs 100% on RN that I load. I load short! My loads are 145PF though. I kept reducing the OAL until success. I also run xtreme plated 124s.

My 9mm Trojan was picky on mags and ammo. I found shorter feed lipped mags and longer OAL length worked better. I run a 10 lb spring with Dawson mags.

My 45 Trojan did not run at all from the factory. I sent it back and they changed the feed ramp. It has run flawlessly since.

[RePete]

Well it was at a tier 3 IDPA match, so they chronoed the ammo and it tested fine.

Was that match Beast of the East?

Edited July 3, 2014 by RePete

[Rob01]

Got my Trojan .40 back from Tripp yesterday and it's night and day. Loaded 10 rounds in mag to do a quick at hoe test and no nose diving. Even with factory length ammo. Going to go out and shoot it today.

[kirbinster]

Well it was at a tier 3 IDPA match, so they chronoed the ammo and it tested fine.

Was that match Beast of the East?

Yes it was the Beast. I shot great, but you certainly can't see it in my times thanks to the 8 coffee breaks I had to take mid-stage

[RePete]

Well it was at a tier 3 IDPA match, so they chronoed the ammo and it tested fine.

Was that match Beast of the East?

Yes it was the Beast. I shot great, but you certainly can't see it in my times thanks to the 8 coffee breaks I had to take mid-stage

PM me your name, I did the chrono at BOTE. I can tell your PF.

FWIW No one failed chrono.

[entropic]

Longer ammo and tuned mags is what you need to make a 9mm 1911 run reliably. Try a 9rnd metalform mag... That magazine feeds JHPs in my Sentry all day long, but any 10 round mags seems to cause nose dives. I have been through this process and it was a big waste of time and money.

[Bob DuBois]

I've had one for a four years now. Bending the nose up on the magazine spring will help along with a throating the barrel rolling the edge at the lead of

the chamber. Polish the feed ramp and chamber. Loading your ammo go to Lee's U die it will size closer to the extractor groove and tighter than other

brands.

Mine seems to run the best with 1.135 to 1.140 OAL. Any shorter it will stovepipe.

Magazines, I've tried MetalForm ten round mags, same as Dawson except for the base pads but prefer Wilson and they have two coils removed from the bottom

and the inside is well polished. Out of the box MetalForm ran better. Have a Spartan in 9mm it prefers MetalForm. Have a couple of Tripp built guns but

have not tried tried Tripp magazines in the Trojan.

Went with an Aftec extractor, Ed Brown magazine extended release and spent some time with recoil springs. Have a 15 lb main spring and a 10 lb recoil

spring in the gun for the last two years.It would not run with a lighter recoil spring. No issues on primers using Winchester Small Pistol Primers. My

ejector broke the first year and STI replaced it with a 38/40 ejector. Put a slight angle cut so it would throw brass behind me. Using stock hammer,sear

and trigger with a trigger job.

Trojans are a blast to shoot, good buy for the money and come with good parts and most STI's need a little tuning to get them to run. Only other way I'd go is an Eagle 2011 in 9mm.

[lee blackman]

Well it was at a tier 3 IDPA match, so they chronoed the ammo and it tested fine. I just tried the gun with a Wilson mag and snap caps. I loaded it up with 10 rounds and did a slide lock reload. I then manually cycled the gun and twice on the third or fourth round the slide only closed about 1/4" and the head of the bullet was on the ramp just below the barrel entrance.

Please excuse the crappy iphone picture, but here is an example:

When it is this type of failure a good slap to the back of the slide fixes the issue, but sometimes the bullet head is much lower and it locks everything up.

Hey I didn't notice this before. Now I know camera angles and focal lengths can kinda distort things in a picture, but from what I'm seeing the nose of the snap cap is already clear of the ramp. So the ramp isn't whats stopping the bullet.

Now I can't see the back of the case from the picture but it doesn't look like the rim of the case head is moving up the breech face. If this is the actual picture of the issue, and resolving it actually requires forward pressure on the slide, then the issue is not with the magazine or feed ramp. If you can apply forward pressure and it moves into place, its clear to move in. If it was being blocked by the feed ramp, you wouldn't be able to hit the back of the slide to make it feed. The jam pictured is an over tight extractor. The rim cannot get under the extractor, and is being held down seizing the slide from moving forward.

[kirbinster]

Interesting observation. Do you think I should pass it on to STI, or should I just assume they are smart enough to figure that out as a possible issue?

[superdude]

Well it was at a tier 3 IDPA match, so they chronoed the ammo and it tested fine. I just tried the gun with a Wilson mag and snap caps. I loaded it up with 10 rounds and did a slide lock reload. I then manually cycled the gun and twice on the third or fourth round the slide only closed about 1/4" and the head of the bullet was on the ramp just below the barrel entrance.

Please excuse the crappy iphone picture, but here is an example:

When it is this type of failure a good slap to the back of the slide fixes the issue, but sometimes the bullet head is much lower and it locks everything up.

Hey I didn't notice this before. Now I know camera angles and focal lengths can kinda distort things in a picture, but from what I'm seeing the nose of the snap cap is already clear of the ramp. So the ramp isn't whats stopping the bullet.

Now I can't see the back of the case from the picture but it doesn't look like the rim of the case head is moving up the breech face. If this is the actual picture of the issue, and resolving it actually requires forward pressure on the slide, then the issue is not with the magazine or feed ramp. If you can apply forward pressure and it moves into place, its clear to move in. If it was being blocked by the feed ramp, you wouldn't be able to hit the back of the slide to make it feed. The jam pictured is an over tight extractor. The rim cannot get under the extractor, and is being held down seizing the slide from moving forward.

It's not the extractor. The round is still held by the magazine. The rim does not slide under the extractor until after the cartridge has nosed-up and the bullet nose enters the chamber and the rear of the cartridge starts to slide up the breech face.

[JonF]

Jeez howard, you shoulda let me know. I have the same pistol and a pile of 10 rd, RAMPED metalform mags and will feed anything i give it, JHP, FMJ, lead, any weight, whatever. Would have been good to try a different mag as a different variable there.