Holsters

[Duane Thomas]

I doubt ANY outside the waistband holster will pass the new rules.

Oh of course they will.

I doubt ANY full size auto will either.

Oh of course they will.

A 3/4 in gap between any part of the weapon and your body is a hill to climb.

No, it's not. Let's take the Blade-Tech Standard Belt Holster and Glock 34 I use for daily carry, IDPA and USPSA (upcoming). The holster hugs my body, there's no light between the belt and belt loops (gotta love that cigarette lighter), the slide and butt of the gun touch my body. Not a problem. And it was the exact same thing when I used this holster type with a full-sized Government Model, as well.

[Scooter]

Wouldn't it have been easier if IDPA just used the 3/4" gap between body/gun rule and did away with the gap between the belt and the holster?

The gap between belt/holster can vary depending on the belt you are using. A Wilderness tactical belt is much thinner than if you use a CR Speed outer belt (through the loops on your pants of course). The CR Speed belt will easily fill any gaps.

This would also accomodate a variety of people. Some larger folks can use a stack of spacers and yet still have the gun pressed against their body. There isn't an advantage if the gun is still against your body even though you have a stack of spacers to push the gun out.

[Duane Thomas]

Wouldn't it have been easier if IDPA just used the 3/4" gap between body/gun rule and did away with the gap between the belt and the holster?

It occurs to me that's true. For instance, someone who's really overweight, or has really strong legs and an upper torso but a tight waist may need one of the holsters, a la Sooper Hooper with huge belt loops to let the gun ride out. On such a person the holster and gun would hug the body but you'd still have a lot of light between the belt and holster body. OTOH, for me with that rig, neither the gun nor holster touch my body at all.

This would also accomodate a variety of people. Some larger folks can use a stack of spacers and yet still have the gun pressed against their body. There isn't an advantage if the gun is still against your body even though you have a stack of spacers to push the gun out.

I have to agree with that one, too.

[GRD]

Just checked my SooperHooper - there is definitely light there. It's illegal per definition. Which is funny because the name of the holster (according to Dave at KyTac) reflects the number of 'hoops' he had to jump through in it's design to get it approved in the first place.

It meets the 3/4" thing with me due to my love handles. If I start working out again, it'll probably fail that test too.

- Gabe

[Duane Thomas]

If I start working out again, it'll probably fail that test too.

That would be horrible! A man's gotta have his priorities.

[melman_1]

THAT'S IT !!!!! I'm shooting IDPA with a clipdraw from now on. No 3/4 in gap or daylight issues.

Wonder how well that would go over?

[gmshtr]

Since this REDICULOUS rule book began circulation, I've been practicing with my DUTY RIG! This seemed to take care of all of the "illegal" holsters I used to use, my magazine position, and any illegal concealment garments. NO CONCEALMENT FOR ME!!! YEEEAAAAHHHHHHH! My fastest draw from my Safariland 6280 is .62sec on a 5 yard target!

I wonder how long this will stay legal....until I win, maybe?

After this mess, I'm guessing there may be some spots opening up at the S&W Winter Champ.

Good luck to all...there's always vacancies on my department. I'll even issue you an open top mag pouch for your belt!!!

[Clay1]

I'm glad something good will come out of this. If it works for you go for it my friend. I shot IDPA on Saturday and a IPSC match today. No one said any of my rigging would be illegal in IPSC and I liked the higher round count.

[rhino]

Good luck to all...there's always vacancies on my department. I'll even issue you an open top mag pouch for your belt!!!

I want a badge! And a gun!

Sign me up!!

[Duane Thomas]

Since this REDICULOUS rule book began circulation, I've been practicing with my DUTY RIG!....NO CONCEALMENT FOR ME!!! YEEEAAAAHHHHHHH!

You....you....gamer, you!

[Caspian_45]

Good luck to all...there's always vacancies on my department. I'll even issue you an open top mag pouch for your belt!!!

Don't tempt me. I am looking into LE right now.

Department funded shooting gear. It just doesn't get any better than that.

[matto]

I was as shocked and angered as everyone else when I first read the new holster rules. The reasons have all been well hashed out else where. I am signed up to shoot the Winter Nationals next month so I was in a bit of a panic since I heard they are going to apply the new rules. So I set out to see what I could do, and I think there are some silver linings to this cloud.

The old holster rules did not allow modifications to holters on the list. The new rules don't seem to limit this. Ky-dex is pretty easy to work with. All it takes is a heat gun and a Leatherman and about 15 minutes of work.

The new rules allow the gun to sit lower and have a lower cut at the front of the holster. My Comp-tac locking paddle now appears to fit in the new rules and is actutally a "gamier" holster. Talk about your unitended consequences, eh Mr. Wilson?

Now all I have to do is eat a lot and quit the gym to close up the 3/4" at the body.

[GRD]

That would be horrible! A man's gotta have his priorities.

[Glock2234]

It seems the new rules have fixed a bunch of stuff that was not broken.

My Blade-Tech holster, Wilderness stiffened 1 3/4" belt with plenty of length, Glock 34, magwell equiped, ESP gun rig, is golden, per the AC.

My Safariland, Para 14-45 rig is screwed, because I need the medium spacers to clear my less than typical IDPA shooter waist line. WTF? The Para actually fits closer, not that I would carry either.

They need to get over the defensive carry thing or realize that people will carry with something that they feel will actually assist them in a self-defense situation. There is a trade off between concealed carry and self-defense. Who is to say what the best answer is for the individual? I'd at least like to get my gun out of the holster. Truth be told, not many would carry a 1911. Stop before you start, certainly some do.

In NC, I can carry my Glock 22, a Sig .380, a S&W 686 or a Desert Eagle as long as it is NOT concealed. With a permit, I can carry concealed.

So why do we need to leave this gray area to the local, or distant SO/MD? If I shoot five major matches this year and two local matches a month, why should the question be left to so many opinions, to fix so few problems? Why should I pay the travel expense and match fee to have someone I don't know make a subjective evaluation of my degree of gamey?

Go back to the drawing board. Take some input from the competitors. Ignore the whining of the top shooters who got beat somewhere. Listen to the manufacturers. Throw these rules out as Draft ideas. Fix the real problem, power factor. The equipment race was on the reloading bench.

Too much money has been spent by too many people to create such a mess.

I can game my equipment more today than I could last month. The only thing that got harder than knowing what is legal, is reaching my mag pouch under the new rules. I can modify my holster. I can weight my mags (a little). I can Dremel the frame of my ESP gun. I need to read the rules again.

By the way, why didn't they define the role of the score keeper? They sure killed enough trees with explanations and rationalizations.

Oh, I hear some formerly SSP guns are too heavy.

As long as these rules took to come out, you would have thought that some of the interested parties might have been consulted.

If you want the sport to grow, you have to get out of Arkansas for some input.

I have been a competitor for several years now. I have read these forums and others all the while. I registered to post my displeasure.

I have carefully selected my equipment to be in compliance with the rules. If I made any bad choices based upon the rule book, I now have to change or run the risk of wasting travel, food, lodging, ammunition, match fee, and blood pressure on vague rules.

I pay for reliability while playing the game, as I do in life. You do not want the last sound you hear to be "click."

[Duane Thomas]

The new rules allow the gun to sit lower and have a lower cut at the front of the holster. My Comp-tac locking paddle now appears to fit in the new rules and is actutally a "gamier" holster. Talk about your unitended consequences, eh Mr. Wilson?

Except for the fact that all paddle holsters are now illegal.

[Ted Murphy]

Except for the fact that all paddle holsters are now illegal.

chceck out

http://www.rmholsters.com

http://www.rmholsters.com/holsters/pdl001.JPG

Their paddle holsters have less gap and offset than the safariland 5183.

And the inside paddle is thin enough no one could say it adds anything.

Ted

[rwmagnus]

Okay I've held off posting on the "New Rules" but I do have a question about my holster. BTW I compete with a S&W 625 so that about says it all. Anyway after reading then rereading the rules I'm not sure about the Sidearmor OWB Revolver holster. Is it legal or not? It keeps the butt of the revolver against my side (love handles never thought I'd like em), no extra belt loops, no daylight issues and I wear it as a straight drop.

If it's legal all I need is a gun that will fit it and be IDPA approved, then tackle the moonclip holders and concealment vest issues.

BTW the reason I haven't jumped on the IDPA bashing band wagon (yet, not far off however) is I believe many of these rules will be changed. Clearly there are indications they are giving them more thought. At least I hope that's the case.

[Duane Thomas]

Their paddle holsters have less gap and offset than the safariland 5183.

And the inside paddle is thin enough no one could say it adds anything.

The Rule Book states there are only four types of holsters acceptable for IDPA competition: IWB, pancake, Nelson #1 Professional/Askins Avenger style, and pouch style. Paddle holsters are not on the list.

Guys. Please. Read the Rule Book.

[diehli]

Their paddle holsters have less gap and offset than the safariland 5183.

And the inside paddle is thin enough no one could say it adds anything.

The Rule Book states there are only four types of holsters acceptable for IDPA competition: IWB, pancake, Nelson #1 Professional/Askins Avenger style, and pouch style. Paddle holsters are not on the list.

Guys. Please. Read the Rule Book.

Heh... RTFM!!!

[Ted Murphy]

The Rule Book states there are only four types of holsters acceptable for IDPA competition: IWB, pancake, Nelson #1 Professional/Askins Avenger style, and pouch style. Paddle holsters are not on the list.

Guys. Please. Read the Rule Book.

Check out PP29 of the new book. Paddle holsters are considered Pouch Holsters.

"This backpiece can either be a belt tunnel, belt slots on either side of the "pouch" or a paddle that slides inside the pants".

Ted

[Bren]

OK, I read the new rules and didn't really mind anything until I got to the holsters. Now I'm thinking that just as a matter of principle I should quit, or else go to the match just for IPSC practice and take the FTDR every time (since IDPA dfoesn't actually get a share of my match fee). The only thing keeping me shooting is that my wife refuses to shoot IPSC.

So, if the inside of my pistol is X distance from my body in an Uncle Mike's $20 paddle holster I'm not playing fair, but if it's the same distance away in a $109 Practical from Bill Wilson, I'm cool? Geez... and I was hoping the new rules would just fix the BS reloading rule so it's a little more real life practical instead of the current "competition" formalities.

Bren

[Duane Thomas]

Duane,

Check out PP29 of the new book.

"This backpiece can either be a belt tunnel, belt slots on either side of the "pouch" or a paddle that slides inside the pants".

Ted,

I just did. Thanks for setting me straight. Somehow my eyes skipped right over that one. I guess I'm the one who should read the rules more carefully. WELL....that should get rid of a lot of the hard feelings people have about "paddle holsters being outlawed." I know I feel better about the holster rules now. (And I assure you I say that without a hint of irony.)

[TractorTed]

I have Fobus holsters for my 1911 and my Glocks, as well as a Kydex for my GP100. None of them have anything competition about them. No cant or outward offset, no abnormal drop or fillers, no offset backpieces or belt slots, they all cover the trigger and firmly retain the gun, and they are all made from "normal thickness Common holster making materials". In addition, they all hold the weapon tight against my (admittedly lumpy) body, you couldn't get an object 1/4in. between the inside of the firearm and my body, nevermind one of 3/4in.

Why then, are they now non-compliant? Because part of section F on page 30 under "Criteria of an IDPA Approved Holster" states:

"No gap is permitted in the following areas:

1. From the body to the inside of the belt.

2. From the outside of the belt to the inside of the

backpiece and/or backside of the holster.

3. From the outside of the backpiece to the inside of

the holster.

If you look through the belt slot area of the holster with it on

the belt/body, you should not be able to see any daylight. If

you can see through this belt tunnel area, the holster is not

approved."

A kydex or plastic "pouch" type holster is going to have a gap no matter what, because they do not conform to the body like leather and nylon. I think this part of section F is ridiculous. Eliminate that, and I don't think they would have half the complaints they do. All the other sections seem to cover holsters well enough.

I suppose I'm lucky in that I only have to replace my holsters, but I feel that if I have to spend any money because they changed the rules, which outlawed my previously legal equipment, I got shafted. I do agree that they need to clarify and stop people from exceeding the envelope, however my holsters are all very concealable. No matter what, if anything, that I buy for IDPA, (my new competition gear ??), I will likely continue to ccw with my current holsters because they are comfortable.

TractorTed

[MikeFoley]

BREN,

Welcome to the forum.

If I am not out of line, why won't your wife shoot IPSC?

Also, it is looking like most Blade-tech belt holsters(the loop kind) are gonna be alright at $60 new, and used ones around for less.

The local IDPA MD sent an email today about business as usual for now. Hopefully developments will come to reverse some of the impact in the new rules.

I am glad I started shooting USPSA exclusively, but would like to still shoot our local IDPA(haven't in a couple of years, but still intend to) match once in a while to support the club and see the members.

[Duane Thomas]

A kydex or plastic "pouch" type holster is going to have a gap no matter what, because they do not conform to the body like leather and nylon.

That's not true, actually. Admittedly I had to take a cigarette lighter to my Blade-Tech Standard Belt Holster and bend the belt loops inward so they'd grip the belt more tightly, but they certainly pass the "no light" test. I just received a holster in the mail from Gregg at Comp-Tac (called the Speed Belt Holster, a great rig though the last time I looked it wasn't advertised on the Comp-Tac web site) where he did that for me while building the holster, no work at all required on my part.