Training a stronger grip?

[ToddKS]

That's my super secret technique. It allows me to pull the trigger twice as fast (two fingers, twice the speed). Also helps with heavy DA revolver triggers. I have a book and a video coming out soon. I expect this to be a "game changer"

What I meant to say was my weak side index finger is on top of my strong side MIDDLE FINGER.....Vogel's grip seems to be more middle finger on top of middle finger.

Edited June 17, 2014 by ToddKS

[kneelingatlas]

I've tried the Vogel grip and I don't like the angle of my left wrist; everyone has different sized hands, different hand strength at different angles, different flexibility so there is never going to be one perfect grip. All someone can do is give you another idea to try, but it might not work better for you. The only sure fire way to get more control over the pistol is more grip strength and the best path towards more grip strength is hard work with your hands.

ETA: deep tissue massage on your significant other has multiple benefits, the least of which is more grip strength

Edited June 17, 2014 by kneelingatlas

[Trunkmnky]

+1 on the COC - Vogel always has one in his pocket from what I hear.

[Bunsen]

COC with the IronMind Hand bands for the extensions. Make sure to balance the extensions.

[itlogo]

Another vote for the CoC. I'm on my computer most of the day so not much opportunity to train my grip, however, I keep a pair of grippers in my car so that I can use them while in transit. At least once a week, I switch to the heavier sets.

[mwc]

Whatever method you use be very careful to not hurt yourself. I am a pretty skinny guy...arms anyway... and I bought the a couple COCs and promptly messed up my elbows. I was way too aggressive with them and had to stop shooting for a few months. What ever you choose...go slow!

I have found that I dry fire too much to do anything else. I try to dry fire at least an hour a day total. I can't really do more than 10-15 minutes at a time due to my hands and forearms getting tired.

I do use Vogel's grip method and it works great on a glock, but I didn't like it when shooting other guns like the Stock 2 or a 2011.

[andrewtac]

best grip exercise is the standard double over hand grip dead lift, it will help add weight and strength as well. you can add fat gripz to the bar to focus more on the grip.

[rhart123]

I took a Matt Mink class and he recommended the CoC so I immediately bought three of them of different strengths. I guess I overdid it because my strong side middle finger joint (where the finger meets the hand/knuckle) got irritated. I refused to stop shooting and subconsciously I would loosen my grip while running a stage. This resulted in very poor recoil control and the trigger guard impacting my trigger finger. To make a long story short, I ended up with severe "stress injuries" in both knuckles of my firing hand and I haven't shot a match since last July (6+ months) and I don't know when or even if I will ever shoot again. I'm hoping it hasn't turned into arthritis by now. If you are over 40 please do yourself a favor and take it extremely easy with CoC use.

[crazygiant]

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned using kettlebells. They will improve your strength, cardio and overall fitness. And don't skimp or on the cheap ones at Walmart, if you get a good one( I recommend http://www.roguefitness.com/rogue-kettlebells)they have a thicker handle which will really work out your grip strength swinging one of those bad boys for 10 min. Plus your significant other will like you new "hip mobility"

[Jake Di Vita]

If you want to have strong hands, start rock climbing.

[mike cyrwus]

beware the Coc. Use them, but treat them like any other weightlifting routine. You go for max output, be prepared to break out the ice and standard recovery routines. All was well until I finally closed the 2.5 and the back of my hand looked like I opened one of those pillsbury biscuit roll tins. Work your way up, keep warm, be in control.

[Ultimo-Hombre]

best grip exercise is the standard double over hand grip dead lift, it will help add weight and strength as well. you can add fat gripz to the bar to focus more on the grip.

This!

It kills me seeing all you guys thinking that a gripper swishy thing is gonna give you an iron grip. If this were true then the Suzanne summers thigh master thingy would have created a bunch of ripped housewives. That kind of stuff is a joke right?

If you want to build real strength you have to do real body weight and barbell excersizes. There is mountains of scientific data on this stuff.

Not slinging poo here... but hand gripper thingies will be more effective at giving you tendinitis than anything.

Do pull-ups! Or work toward one pull up! Yeah it sucks/ hurts/ is embarrassing / tears up calluses, but it's worth it!

If you invest some of your training energy and time in this it will have profound effects in your shooting.

Good luck!!!!

Edited February 13, 2015 by Ultimo-Hombre

[MikeRush]

best grip exercise is the standard double over hand grip dead lift, it will help add weight and strength as well. you can add fat gripz to the bar to focus more on the grip.

This!

It kills me seeing all you guys thinking that a gripper swishy thing is gonna give you an iron grip. If this were true then the Suzanne summers thigh master thingy would have created a bunch of ripped housewives. That kind of stuff is a joke right?

If you want to build real strength you have to do real body weight and barbell excersizes. There is mountains of scientific data on this stuff.

Not slinging poo here... but hand gripper thingies will be more effective at giving you tendinitis than anything.

Do pull-ups! Or work toward one pull up! Yeah it sucks/ hurts/ is embarrassing / tears up calluses, but it's worth it!

If you invest some of your training energy and time in this it will have profound effects in your shooting.

Good luck!!!!

I'm going to have to respectfully partially disagree with this. Dead lifts do build grip strength but I don't think that necessarily equates to a crushing grip.

Coworker can double overhand DL 435 for reps and can't close the CoC #2. In another less sedentary life i used to do working sets of DLs in the 3s and I noticed a significant improvement in recoil control after working a while with a #1. Its certainly not all I do, and I'm not arguing against deadlifts but they are part of this complete grip monster breakfast and not a total solution.

Just watch YouTube videos of strongmen trying to close the cute little Suzanne Summers spring #3 or #3.5 and you will see what I mean. There is something to be said for working muscles through a range of motion rather than having them hold a static position.

[Ultimo-Hombre]

best grip exercise is the standard double over hand grip dead lift, it will help add weight and strength as well. you can add fat gripz to the bar to focus more on the grip.

This!

It kills me seeing all you guys thinking that a gripper swishy thing is gonna give you an iron grip. If this were true then the Suzanne summers thigh master thingy would have created a bunch of ripped housewives. That kind of stuff is a joke right?

If you want to build real strength you have to do real body weight and barbell excersizes. There is mountains of scientific data on this stuff.

Not slinging poo here... but hand gripper thingies will be more effective at giving you tendinitis than anything.

Do pull-ups! Or work toward one pull up! Yeah it sucks/ hurts/ is embarrassing / tears up calluses, but it's worth it!

If you invest some of your training energy and time in this it will have profound effects in your shooting.

Good luck!!!!

I'm going to have to respectfully partially disagree with this. Dead lifts do build grip strength but I don't think that necessarily equates to a crushing grip.

Coworker can double overhand DL 435 for reps and can't close the CoC #2. In another less sedentary life i used to do working sets of DLs in the 3s and I noticed a significant improvement in recoil control after working a while with a #1. Its certainly not all I do, and I'm not arguing against deadlifts but they are part of this complete grip monster breakfast and not a total solution.

Just watch YouTube videos of strongmen trying to close the cute little Suzanne Summers spring #3 or #3.5 and you will see what I mean. There is something to be said for working muscles through a range of motion rather than having them hold a static position.

I'm with you Mike.

A comprehensive program is the best solution.

Also i'm not saying that just dead lifts are the key. I'm talking more about just functional strength. A guy; who says "hey I will only do these grippy exercises" is not anywhere near realizing his full potential versus saying " I am going to spend some time doing difficult barbell and body weight exercises like pull ups"

You said it yourself, you had significant recoil control improvement when you did strength training. if an Iron grip is attached to a weak chassis, what is the point?

Now a program which combines functional strength with an appropriate amount of finger flexion device training would be great.

that said though, I think that the reason what I say on this topic gets pissed on is because we are lazy, we like to buy "things" to make us better shooters, like hand grippy things that are simple quick and comparatively easy. and hey, something is better than nothing, but if you don't have the functional grip strength to take a trip across the monkey bars at your kids play ground after your COC program.....

Good luck amigos!

[kneelingatlas]

Weight lifting is not nearly as useful for building grip strength as working with your hands day in and day out. I've been in the office for 7 years, but I still have more residual grip strength from working as a pipefitter than my body building brothers in law. They got pretty sheepish when they egged me into pulling out the #2 one night at dinner

Edited February 14, 2015 by kneelingatlas

[Ultimo-Hombre]

They got pretty sheepish when they egged me into pulling out the #2 on night at dinner

I'm not sure exactly what this means but it sounds like something that would get you thrown out of a nice restaurant ?

[andrewtac]

If you were to do either the CoC or DOH dead lifts, who'd be better off? The dude doing dead lifts; it is functional strength. If you can't grip it you can't dead lift it. The other significant advantage is the associated muscle gain with DLs. A larger/stronger lower body, back, abs, arms will provide more body weight and strength to help with the recoil. And body builders are not strength training; there is a significant difference.

[MikeRush]

If you were to do either the CoC or DOH dead lifts, who'd be better off? The dude doing dead lifts; it is functional strength. If you can't grip it you can't dead lift it. The other significant advantage is the associated muscle gain with DLs. A larger/stronger lower body, back, abs, arms will provide more body weight and strength to help with the recoil. And body builders are not strength training; there is a significant difference.

Overall fitness, sure, overall strength, of course. Grip strength? Nope. At least not the way that it is measured. Look at a dynamometer. How much does that resemble a barbell?

Grip endurance and some level of grip strength are built by deadlifts, sure. You are keeping something from rolling out of your hands, but not working it through a range of motion.

You can put up some pretty big numbers on DL, or rack pull, or shrugs, or whatever floats your boat, but don't pretend its the same thing as dedicated grip work. It would be like working your legs by unracking the bar in the squat rack- yeah, I guess it makes your legs stronger, but it isn't the same thing as doing a full squat. Your grip is connecting you to the weight, but that's about it.

Deadlifts, CoC, hammer work, and block weights? Now you are getting somewhere. Kneelingatlas hit the nail on the head though- plumbers, pipefitters, contractors, etc (add in dirt bike riders) probably have a stronger grip than most gym rats (and not just "body builders").

[Ultimo-Hombre]

If you were to do either the CoC or DOH dead lifts, who'd be better off? The dude doing dead lifts; it is functional strength. If you can't grip it you can't dead lift it. The other significant advantage is the associated muscle gain with DLs. A larger/stronger lower body, back, abs, arms will provide more body weight and strength to help with the recoil. And body builders are not strength training; there is a significant difference.

Overall fitness, sure, overall strength, of course. Grip strength? Nope. At least not the way that it is measured. Look at a dynamometer. How much does that resemble a barbell?

Grip endurance and some level of grip strength are built by deadlifts, sure. You are keeping something from rolling out of your hands, but not working it through a range of motion.

You can put up some pretty big numbers on DL, or rack pull, or shrugs, or whatever floats your boat, but don't pretend its the same thing as dedicated grip work. It would be like working your legs by unracking the bar in the squat rack- yeah, I guess it makes your legs stronger, but it isn't the same thing as doing a full squat. Your grip is connecting you to the weight, but that's about it.

Deadlifts, CoC, hammer work, and block weights? Now you are getting somewhere. Kneelingatlas hit the nail on the head though- plumbers, pipefitters, contractors, etc (add in dirt bike riders) probably have a stronger grip than most gym rats (and not just "body builders").

Ok so if we quit debating grip strength alone, ( not saying I'm agreeing with ya) which do you think will translate into better shooting performance? Just working grip thru CoC or whatever grippy thing you do, or improving grip, forearm, shoulder upper body and core together as well as overall fitness?

I get it that the OP was specific to grip strength but my contention is that time spent working grip alone pales in comparison to the gains that will come from building grip strength at the same time as larger functional movements. A big issue is that to some extent you can't really do both. If you devote significant effort to grippy thing excercises: 1. That's where your time goes ( we all have varying degrees of time constraint)

2. To avoid stress and overuse injury you have kind of taken the barbell/ body weight excercises off the table.

[MikeRush]

If you were to do either the CoC or DOH dead lifts, who'd be better off? The dude doing dead lifts; it is functional strength. If you can't grip it you can't dead lift it. The other significant advantage is the associated muscle gain with DLs. A larger/stronger lower body, back, abs, arms will provide more body weight and strength to help with the recoil. And body builders are not strength training; there is a significant difference.

Overall fitness, sure, overall strength, of course. Grip strength? Nope. At least not the way that it is measured. Look at a dynamometer. How much does that resemble a barbell?

Grip endurance and some level of grip strength are built by deadlifts, sure. You are keeping something from rolling out of your hands, but not working it through a range of motion.

You can put up some pretty big numbers on DL, or rack pull, or shrugs, or whatever floats your boat, but don't pretend its the same thing as dedicated grip work. It would be like working your legs by unracking the bar in the squat rack- yeah, I guess it makes your legs stronger, but it isn't the same thing as doing a full squat. Your grip is connecting you to the weight, but that's about it.

Deadlifts, CoC, hammer work, and block weights? Now you are getting somewhere. Kneelingatlas hit the nail on the head though- plumbers, pipefitters, contractors, etc (add in dirt bike riders) probably have a stronger grip than most gym rats (and not just "body builders").

Ok so if we quit debating grip strength alone, ( not saying I'm agreeing with ya) which do you think will translate into better shooting performance? Just working grip thru CoC or whatever grippy thing you do, or improving grip, forearm, shoulder upper body and core together as well as overall fitness?

I get it that the OP was specific to grip strength but my contention is that time spent working grip alone pales in comparison to the gains that will come from building grip strength at the same time as larger functional movements. A big issue is that to some extent you can't really do both. If you devote significant effort to grippy thing excercises: 1. That's where your time goes ( we all have varying degrees of time constraint)

2. To avoid stress and overuse injury you have kind of taken the barbell/ body weight excercises off the table.

Thread is "training a stronger grip". I feel like grip training has a place in that. You seem to think its mutually exclusive with barbell work. Not trying to debate here, just presenting an alternate view- but I think we're talking past each other. I'm saying specific grip work gives you optimal crushing grip strength, you are saying dead lifts benefit more muscle groups, and I would agree with that.

A good workout with CoC doesn't take long, and I can pack my grippers in my carry on when I travel, in my car (although I don't use anything more than a warm up weight while driving), etc. Its very accessible and actually can make a difference in your ability to grip things and that for me improves sight tracking. That doesn't interfere with my ability to lift weights. How long does it take to do a warmup and three sets? I can roll up my sleeves and do that on my lunch break three times a week without impacting a lifting routine at all.

As far as injuries, I'm not a betting man, but if I were I'd put good money down saying that more people have been injured dead lifting that with grip workout. I have battled tendinitis but getting back into the grippers seems to be helping rather than making it worse. Just work your extensors too.

As far as shooting performance, look at Nils and Eric. Neither of them appear to be big deadlift enthusiasts and they seem to do OK. Vogel and some of the other super squad level shooters espouse the CoC, and I would agree with them. Its all good though, you are preaching fitness and I'm part of the choir. I think dead lifts are great for building lower body and core strength. I'm still going to keep squeezing my grippers.

[Ultimo-Hombre]

Right on Mike.

You have some good points.

Good shooting amigo!

[motosapiens]

You guys are smarter and much harder working than me, but I grip the living f*(#! out of my gun when I dryfire, and I dryfire almost every day. The only reason I do any other hand/forearm exercises is to ward off elbow tendonitis with bad chad's suggestions (curls and triceps, followed by wrist curls and extensions with fairly light weights.)

I'm not convinced it takes a whole lot of grip strength to control a recoiling gun, but it does take some practice to apply that strength at the right times, and in the right way so that you can still pull the trigger quickly and smoothly. I think if you can hold onto a 250cc motorcycle at top speed in the desert for 2-3 hrs, you should be able to hold onto a gun for 20-30 seconds at a time.

[andrewtac]

If you were to do either the CoC or DOH dead lifts, who'd be better off? The dude doing dead lifts; it is functional strength. If you can't grip it you can't dead lift it. The other significant advantage is the associated muscle gain with DLs. A larger/stronger lower body, back, abs, arms will provide more body weight and strength to help with the recoil. And body builders are not strength training; there is a significant difference.

Overall fitness, sure, overall strength, of course. Grip strength? Nope. At least not the way that it is measured. Look at a dynamometer. How much does that resemble a barbell?

Grip endurance and some level of grip strength are built by deadlifts, sure. You are keeping something from rolling out of your hands, but not working it through a range of motion.

You can put up some pretty big numbers on DL, or rack pull, or shrugs, or whatever floats your boat, but don't pretend its the same thing as dedicated grip work. It would be like working your legs by unracking the bar in the squat rack- yeah, I guess it makes your legs stronger, but it isn't the same thing as doing a full squat. Your grip is connecting you to the weight, but that's about it.

Deadlifts, CoC, hammer work, and block weights? Now you are getting somewhere. Kneelingatlas hit the nail on the head though- plumbers, pipefitters, contractors, etc (add in dirt bike riders) probably have a stronger grip than most gym rats (and not just "body builders").

I never said not to do squats; DL and squats will build more total mass than anything else. I would say CoC for grip strength is like doing hamstring curls for legs rather than deadlifts. I still disagree the CoC are better for grip strength. I own a set of CoC and have used them, but didn't see my ability to grab a hold of the bar really improving as fast as did by just picking up the bar. I don't remember what number of CoC I left off with but I haven't use them in some time. Perhaps because I do more than DLs (other barbell exercises) my grip strength develops. I do feel it in my forearms after doing deads or anything that requires a strong grip on the bar (to include bench or presses). I don't disagree that guys who use their hands everyday have a strong grip; again functional strength from multiple repetitions. However, they do it for hours a day. You can increase volume through weight or reps. CoCs will work with grip strength, as will other dedicated grip exercises. I saw more grip strength increases when I was picking up heavy things over CoC or other grip exercises with the additional benefit of strength gains. Just my results, and with anything results vary.

[Wehrwolfe625]

Deleted

Edited March 20, 2015 by Wehrwolfe625

[Wehrwolfe625]

Oops. I was trying to say I had the same ah-ha moment as well Todd ! I have been retraining my grip as well. Indexing with the weak hand middle finger under the trigger guard. I can now grip higher actually pressing in higher on the frame. The gun tracks like it's in a vise! I wish I could post a picture maybe I do not have enough posts on the forum?