Critique This Stage Design

[Ssanders224]

Just starting to play around with some stage designs, possibly to submit for our local match.

Critique please.

Starting loaded, with hands on Xs on walls by barrel. (I'd write a better WSB )

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Edited March 11, 2014 by Ssanders224

[EEH]

Can't see, do you shoot thru barrel ?

[Trent1k1]

Ssanders.

Looks like a good start. This is only MY opinion and I shoot Limited and S/S (C in both) so you know where I'm coming from.

Seems like a very "Follow the Leader" sort of stage. Go to port, shoot, go to next port, shoot, rinse and repeat. There is really no way to freestyle (at least what I think Freestyle is) the stage. I like some risk/reward targets that can be seen from multiple locations, or maybe a target I can try to shoot while moving. Obviously the ports may not be perfectly to scale with the props you have on the ground and the angles could change a little bit.

Since you asked for some suggestions i'll throw a couple at you. Perhaps you could get rid of the two outside walls and put a couple of double barrels as view blocks and possibly the two middle walls could also be done with some barrels instead of full walls. That would give shooters the opportunity to try to hit the very outside 2 targets on each side while moving east and west if they want to. I like that shooters are still sort of forced to go to both sides of the stage to hit the 2 targets in the middle, but for a Single Stack guy with only 8 rounds it opens up a couple of options.

Please take my comments as strictly my opinion. I'd be happy to shoot this stage (as opposed to some I have shot lately).

[Ssanders224]

Can't see, do you shoot thru barrel ?

Yep.

Low target on back of barrel. The no shoot covers top part of it.

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[Ssanders224]

Ssanders.

Looks like a good start. This is only MY opinion and I shoot Limited and S/S (C in both) so you know where I'm coming from.

Seems like a very "Follow the Leader" sort of stage. Go to port, shoot, go to next port, shoot, rinse and repeat. There is really no way to freestyle (at least what I think Freestyle is) the stage. I like some risk/reward targets that can be seen from multiple locations, or maybe a target I can try to shoot while moving. Obviously the ports may not be perfectly to scale with the props you have on the ground and the angles could change a little bit.

Since you asked for some suggestions i'll throw a couple at you. Perhaps you could get rid of the two outside walls and put a couple of double barrels as view blocks and possibly the two middle walls could also be done with some barrels instead of full walls. That would give shooters the opportunity to try to hit the very outside 2 targets on each side while moving east and west if they want to. I like that shooters are still sort of forced to go to both sides of the stage to hit the 2 targets in the middle, but for a Single Stack guy with only 8 rounds it opens up a couple of options.

Please take my comments as strictly my opinion. I'd be happy to shoot this stage (as opposed to some I have shot lately).

Thanks for the suggestions. I'm a limited shooter as well (M), and I tend to excel on fast hoser stages. We shoot a lot of stages locally that are fast & close.

So, my thoughts for this one was to kind of make you stop in a lot of shooting positions on purpose. I didn't want the shooter to be able to cruise trough targets, or shoot on the move. Also, the perspective of the drawing doesn't show distance well, but I would plan on stretching the targets out so that they are definitely not hosers. Maybe drop in some no shoots.

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[Trent1k1]

I Hate no-shoots....

at distance.....

[Prov1x]

double

Edited March 11, 2014 by Prov1x

[Prov1x]

what program did you use for that diagram?

[McCringleberry]

That should be Sketch Up.

Cool stage. A few things: 1) be careful with barrels that close, might have shoot through issues, 2) watch the barrel tunnel -easy to shoot around, specify x targets that must be engaged or something like that, 3) did you share this in the warehouse?

[Ssanders224]

That should be Sketch Up.

Cool stage. A few things: 1) be careful with barrels that close, might have shoot through issues, 2) watch the barrel tunnel -easy to shoot around, specify x targets that must be engaged or something like that, 3) did you share this in the warehouse?

Yep. Sketchup.

There wouldn't really be anything to shoot around the tunnel. The target is right at the back of it.

What's the warehouse?

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[alma]

It's hard to tell where the shooting boundaries are. Mix it up and place some targets so that they can be shot from more than one place/window. Give the shooters an opportunity to at least make some of their own decisions about engagements otherwise wise you might as well save the set up time an put a bunch of boxes down with specific mandatory arrays from each box.

[Ssanders224]

It's hard to tell where the shooting boundaries are. Mix it up and place some targets so that they can be shot from more than one place/window. Give the shooters an opportunity to at least make some of their own decisions about engagements otherwise wise you might as well save the set up time an put a bunch of boxes down with specific mandatory arrays from each box.

I'm going to work on that, and I really like the idea of being able to take targets from multiple locations, however, I'd say 95% of the stages I shoot (local and majors) pretty much denote where you can engage specific targets through the stage's design. Not saying its a good practice, just saying that's how it usually is.

ETA:

The shooting boundaries are within the shooting area outlined in black.

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Edited March 11, 2014 by Ssanders224

[alma]

P.S. I like the idea of the close target through barrel. Maybe put a second one along side it and back them up a bit so you can shoot them from the same spot.

The other recommend about having a few targets outside of the ports might give the same result of allowing the competitor same options about when and from wherever to take them.

Just because that is aways how you see stages doest mean it's the best way to design them.

[BillChunn]

Good effort! Sketch-Up takes a bit of getting used to when creating stage designs, but the results are great.

I have found that to challenge the shooter, you have to have stages with multiple solutions. Targets that are visible from multiple locations that present risk/reward situations while still being able to be shot with an eight round single stack.

There are two other things you want to keep in mind when designing stages: 1) Where will the RO be when running the shooter? 2) How easy is it to get to all the targets and steel to efficiently reset the stage?

Trapping an RO or having a shooter backup quickly when unexpected will force a reshoot and slow down the match.

Taking forever to paste targets and set steel will also slow down the stage.

BC

[Ssanders224]

Thanks for the feedback.

Heres another I threw together a minute ago. It gives a little risk/reward opportunity.

havent decided on a start position yet, but anyone see any issues? After drawing it, I figured that the two front walls should be sno fence, so that the RO can see the shooter from any angle. Also, the two closest targets, at the end of the front wall, would be angled so that shoot through isnt a problem.

ETA:

I'll also probably add a couple of targets, to force a reload in Limited.

Edited March 11, 2014 by Ssanders224

[alma]

Good effort! Sketch-Up takes a bit of getting used to when creating stage designs, but the results are great.

I have found that to challenge the shooter, you have to have stages with multiple solutions. Targets that are visible from multiple locations that present risk/reward situations while still being able to be shot with an eight round single stack.

There are two other things you want to keep in mind when designing stages: 1) Where will the RO be when running the shooter? 2) How easy is it to get to all the targets and steel to efficiently reset the stage?

Trapping an RO or having a shooter backup quickly when unexpected will force a reshoot and slow down the match.

Taking forever to paste targets and set steel will also slow down the stage.

BC

Good point about the RO.

Could you get the same basic design with a parallel fault line on the front to keep the shooter from having to run back up range? I think it would change very little but allow for a much safer stage.

[Poppa Bear]

If you number your walls 1 - 6 going left to right, I would take walls 3 and 4 and replace them with walls 1 and 6. This opens up some different areas for people to try and engage targets from. I would take the areas covered by walls 1 and 6 and replace them with No Shoots that allow easy shots if you are close to the area but a higher risk and higher reward time wise shot from a greater distance.

On stage 2 are the back targets NS leaving just the head available? If not what purpose do they serve? I would narrow up the rear shooting area to reduce the likelihood of having a shoot through onto the NS covered targets at the left and right sides. If someone moved far enough to either side they could engage them from the outside of the rear shooting area.

[Ssanders224]

If you number your walls 1 - 6 going left to right, I would take walls 3 and 4 and replace them with walls 1 and 6. This opens up some different areas for people to try and engage targets from. I would take the areas covered by walls 1 and 6 and replace them with No Shoots that allow easy shots if you are close to the area but a higher risk and higher reward time wise shot from a greater distance.

On stage 2 are the back targets NS leaving just the head available? If not what purpose do they serve? I would narrow up the rear shooting area to reduce the likelihood of having a shoot through onto the NS covered targets at the left and right sides. If someone moved far enough to either side they could engage them from the outside of the rear shooting area.

Not a bad idea for stage 1, but part of the reason I flared the walls out (but not the boundry lines) is so that you must shoot through the ports form a distance. Frankly, I get tired of running right up to a port and shooting, or watching people go elbow deep in ports. Also, I wanted the stage to be wide, and have the shooter be forced to travel the extents of the stage.

For stage 2, yes on the far targets, the no-shoots are leaving only the upper A/B avaliable. You could take them from the second shooting area (a further shot), or advance to the 3rd shooting area at the front for a closer shot.

The shooter has the option to take slightly longer shots from the first (uprange) shooting area, and advnce to the most downrange area behind the walls (skipping the mid shooting area) OR, take longer shots from the mid shooting area, and avoid the downrange area behind the walls.

There is no shoot-through danger to the no-shoot targets on the left and right.

This is the view of those targets in sketchup.

[Poppa Bear]

I was thinking of the two parallel to the rear walls on stage 2.

Understanding the actual shooting area on stage 1 now I might add a port to walls 3 and 4. I would also place NS around the ports otherwise you will be busy determining which shots passed through the walls next to the ports. It is also easier to paste up a NS than it will be to patch up each new hole in the wall.

[Ssanders224]

I was thinking of the two parallel to the rear walls on stage 2.

Understanding the actual shooting area on stage 1 now I might add a port to walls 3 and 4. I would also place NS around the ports otherwise you will be busy determining which shots passed through the walls next to the ports. It is also easier to paste up a NS than it will be to patch up each new hole in the wall.

Ah, yes. The two targets at the ends of the first wall would need to be adjusted. If you go back to my post (where I posted stage 2 pic) I had already mentioned this.

I dont think ports on walls 3 & 4 would do much? What would you engage through them?

The targets at the points of the walls and the poppers are engaged over the barrel as shown in the view below:

[sperman]

Moved to the stage design form.

[Poppa Bear]

Right now there are no options for stage 1. Whether you go left or right after the center start you must engage specific targets from specific areas. Adding ports to the front walls allows shooters to take 2 paper and 2 steel from a couple of positions. Run through the stage as if you were shooting REV-6, REV-8, SS (9 rounds), Prod (11 rounds) or Lim and Open where it can be shot with 1 mag. It will be a follow the leader stage. With the extra ports the shooters will at least have some choices for where they reload.

[bikerburgess]

Thanks for the feedback.

Heres another I threw together a minute ago. It gives a little risk/reward opportunity.

havent decided on a start position yet, but anyone see any issues? After drawing it, I figured that the two front walls should be sno fence, so that the RO can see the shooter from any angle. Also, the two closest targets, at the end of the front wall, would be angled so that shoot through isnt a problem.

ETA:

I'll also probably add a couple of targets, to force a reload in Limited.

there are some shoot through issues with the targets to the outside of the front walls, and I think if you hold the fault lines back from the ends of the center walls you could do away with the down range walls (I assume they are there to make you shoot the partial targets through the center opening)

[bikerburgess]

I was thinking of the two parallel to the rear walls on stage 2.

Understanding the actual shooting area on stage 1 now I might add a port to walls 3 and 4. I would also place NS around the ports otherwise you will be busy determining which shots passed through the walls next to the ports. It is also easier to paste up a NS than it will be to patch up each new hole in the wall.

Ah, yes. The two targets at the ends of the first wall would need to be adjusted. If you go back to my post (where I posted stage 2 pic) I had already mentioned this.

I dont think ports on walls 3 & 4 would do much? What would you engage through them?

The targets at the points of the walls and the poppers are engaged over the barrel as shown in the view below:

two things to look out for when using a wall at a distance from the shooter to control a small shooting lane like that is one the wall WILL get shot how many times depends on how close to the target line it is set, two if a round goes through the wall (I don't know what your walls are made out of) and goes on to hit that popper it is a reshoot.

[Jaxshooter]

Looks like a lot of construction for so few targets. Good start add targets to get round count higher.