neckbone Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 I just set up recently to load .45 acp. I find that many of the loaded rounds wedge in the Dillon gauge. Many of the rounds that fail the gauge plunk test will plunk in my barrel, but still, some of those also will not plunk in the barrel either. The shell plate is up against the Dillon sizing die at the top of the stroke. I'm confused as to why, after running through the size die, the rounds would not fit in the barrel chamber. Of the few that I have fired (300) there was only a couple of 'fail to chamber' rounds. Of those cleared, they all feed on a second try. I suspect the slide action slammed them home. So, is the Dillon sizing die not doing it's job and putting out marginal ammo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anachronism Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 If they won't fit in your barrel, I'm going to venture a guess that they probably weren't originally shot in your barrel. If I get brass that wasn't fired in my particular gun, I size them in the single stage press the first time to make certain they're properly sized in the head area. Sometimes, I find brass that has a slight belt above the extractor groove from a previous firing, likely a hot load in a non-supported chamber. Now, one thing about Dillon dies, as well as many others. Because of all the progressive presses in the world, many die manufacturers cut a rather generous chamfer at the die entry point to help the brass enter the die smoothly when the operators going for the record. This chamfer does help align the case, but in certain circumstances, the case won't end up fully sized at the base. That's also there that belt I mentioned earlier can come from. In addition to dies that go fast in my Dillon, I'm also always on the lookout for older RCBS carbide die sets. These often just have the edge lightly chamfered at the entry to the sizing die. 9mm is really bad for this because I swear that most people grossly overload them. This is just a guess, as to what you might be experiencing, hopefully it helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTW Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 I had a similar reject rate on first batch of .40 cal in new 550. My problem turned out to be a combination of two rather simple avoidable set up errors. Unlike you, I did not set the Dillon resizing die correctly. That left a very slight bulge in the case at the rim. Measured at just above the extraction groove, cases at 0.429 " wedged, cases at 0.424 plunk nicely into my 96A1 barrel. I am used to making my mistakes in a single stage press. Can't crank out much of a mess doing it one at a time. The Dillon is a different story. I learned. The other mistake I made was to put too much crimp into a Rainier 180 gr RNFP Cu plated bullet. That bulged as well - just at the other end of the round. In both instances, my mistakes caused the problems. Detailed measurements and dropping set up rounds in the barrel resolved the issues. Since correction- the Dillon has cranked out 600 perfect rounds. One other note, my practice is to push all range brass through a Lee Bulge Buster before they join my notably random mix of brass. Perhaps not necessary, but it does take one more variable out of the equation. I hope this helps- at the very least, now you know you are not alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 I just set up recently to load .45 acp. I find that many of the loaded rounds wedge in the Dillon gauge. Many of the rounds that fail the gauge plunk test will plunk in my barrel, but still, some of those also will not plunk in the barrel either. The shell plate is up against the Dillon sizing die at the top of the stroke. I'm confused as to why, after running through the size die, the rounds would not fit in the barrel chamber. Of the few that I have fired (300) there was only a couple of 'fail to chamber' rounds. Of those cleared, they all feed on a second try. I suspect the slide action slammed them home. So, is the Dillon sizing die not doing it's job and putting out marginal ammo? What are your readings on the calipers? Measure the diameter at the case mouth. Maybe not enough crimp? Are you using lead bullets? They tend to run big I guess. I see more feeding problems with 45 shooters using lead bullets than any other ammo/gun combination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Youngeyes Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 My bet is the crimp. Size the brass and see if it passes the gauge and slips into your barrel. If it fits, the problem is not the sizing. If that works,than reset your crimp and check the gauging as you go. You'll find that when the crimp is just enough, it will drop into the gauge. That crimp should just be enough to take out the flare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neckbone Posted January 19, 2014 Author Share Posted January 19, 2014 All good information. Thanks. The bullet bulge measured close, but within limits. Dropping the cartridge into the gauge backwards helps to point out where the jam is located. The worst offenders measured .474-5", where the barrel chamber read .475". That says the base sizing is not enough. The die chamfer makes sense. That would allow a larger diameter base. If the opening was at the finished desired diameter, it would be nasty to get a case started. Since the firing line problems are few (have to take closer note and record) and the problem is really with plunk testing, I may sit tight for now. It was just a surprise, like many things anymore, that the condition existed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neckbone Posted January 19, 2014 Author Share Posted January 19, 2014 Ok, I found the problem. Removing a case just after sizing plunks just great. No sizing problem !! My plated bullet loaded rounds plunk great. But, the cast bullets (measured at .4515" to .4520") create a bulge in the brass (looks like a fat chick in stretch pants) which is not seen with plated rounds. I measure .473" to .475" at the bulge on cast loads. That bumps up against the limit on my chamber. Hopefully the slide can jack these loads into battery. Others load and shoot these bullets, so I should have no problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Rod Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 (edited) How much are you flaring the case in station 2? I had that issue with some .357/.38 rounds and it was the bullet that was was causing it during seating. Edited January 19, 2014 by Dirty Rod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Hopefully the slide can jack these loads into battery. I think you are inviting a death jam by going down that path. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neckbone Posted January 20, 2014 Author Share Posted January 20, 2014 Hopefully the slide can jack these loads into battery. I think you are inviting a death jam by going down that path. I agree. I shot 200+ rounds today during load testing and had 2 fail to chamber. One was jammed very hard/tight. I wonder how many were force-chambered and fired without notice. I either have to use cast bullets sized to .451", or go back to plated (which are .451") for 5 cents more per round. Plated is where I think I'll head to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Miles Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Ok, I found the problem. Removing a case just after sizing plunks just great. No sizing problem !! My plated bullet loaded rounds plunk great. But, the cast bullets (measured at .4515" to .4520") create a bulge in the brass (looks like a fat chick in stretch pants) which is not seen with plated rounds. I measure .473" to .475" at the bulge on cast loads. That bumps up against the limit on my chamber. Hopefully the slide can jack these loads into battery. Others load and shoot these bullets, so I should have no problem. So your title for the thread is wrong. Your Dillon 550 was working just fine. It was your bullets that were causing the problem... not the 550. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neckbone Posted January 21, 2014 Author Share Posted January 21, 2014 Ok, I found the problem. Removing a case just after sizing plunks just great. No sizing problem !! My plated bullet loaded rounds plunk great. But, the cast bullets (measured at .4515" to .4520") create a bulge in the brass (looks like a fat chick in stretch pants) which is not seen with plated rounds. I measure .473" to .475" at the bulge on cast loads. That bumps up against the limit on my chamber. Hopefully the slide can jack these loads into battery. Others load and shoot these bullets, so I should have no problem. So your title for the thread is wrong. Your Dillon 550 was working just fine. It was your bullets that were causing the problem... not the 550. Pat Correct. The Dillon is doing it's job perfectly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98sr20ve Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 If the bulge is not even all the way around then they are seated a little of center. That is the likely issue. You can try a longer OAL as well if you barrel will allow it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSOL1 Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Are you adjusting the crimp die when you change bullets? If you set the crimp with plated then the crimp will be too tight with lead. The lead is larger than the plated adding to a tight crimp causing the case to buckle and not chamber. Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 If people would use "straighten" instead of "crimp" there would be fewer problems. All you want to do is take the flare out of the case - period. Any factory ammunition - other than a few revolver rounds that are crimped into a cannelure - that you look at will have straight sides. So should your reloads !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noylj Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 (edited) As much as I dislike the 550, it isn't the problem. First, why won't they chamber? Ahh, you found out... Your bullets actually sound too small--should be 0.452-0.453". Are you EXPANDING the cases or ONLY flaring the case mouth? Expand a case and measure the case ID (not the case mouth flare). The ID should be 0.001-0.002" smaller than bullet diameter. If any smaller, the lead bullet will, many times, be swaged down in diameter or it will seat crooked and bulge the case where the base of the bullet is. You can "iron" this out with a Lee FCD, but it is better to properly expand the case and seat the bullet straight for accuracy and elimination of leading. The next step would be to check the seating stem fit to the bullet. You can submit bullets of the die manufacturer and they will cut you a custom seating stem. Lee did this for $12 for me in the past. Finally, just my own Dillon criticism--the sizing dies have such a bevel for easy case insertion that they don't size down as low as most. I use Lee or Hornady sizing dies in my 1050s for this reason. Edited February 16, 2014 by noylj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njl Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 I've had the same issues with .45acp on a RL550B with Dillon dies. In my case, I think it was a combination of any one or more of the following: Bullets not seating straight - lower the powder die to get more flare or fool with the seating stem to try getting a better stem/bullet fit...also, be a little more careful when manually placing the bullet to try placing it reasonably straight. Not enough crimp - I'd gotten very conservative with crimp, not wanting to damage the coating on Precision coated bullets. Extractor burs on the case heads - these can be filed away, but I'm not sure how necessary that really is. Dillon's .45acp gauges are a little undersized - I have factory (CCI) ammo that won't gauge. I sent my original one back to Dillon, and the replacement (if they replaced it) has the same issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colt 45 Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 An easy way to resolve the problem is to install a Lee Factory Crimp die in place of the Dillon crimp die.....I personally don't care for them with oversize cast bullets but it will eliminate your issue...may or may not cause leading of your barrel depending on how much the bullet is "swaged" during the crimping operation and IF the bullet is still at least as large (a bit over is better) as your bore....ie; .451 bore and .451+bullet.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canine582 Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 he's right. I learned a while back that you do need to change the crimp when going form one bullet to another. take the extra few minutes and measurements and you'll be fine. I have a 550 as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigFitz Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 I cast my own lead .45 bullets and had this problem when I first started loading them. The issue was always that some bullets always came out of the mold .001or .002 too large. I use a lee bullet sizer die that is .451 and it has completely fixed the problem. No more bulging. Yes, it is an extra step but it works and you know that every bullet is the exact same diameter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick49 Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 I have the exact same problem with 45 acp in a Dillon 550B. As much as 10% case gauge failures. I have used RN plated only. My line of thought has been this, If it was the press or dies or a combination of the two, I would expect to see more gauge failures. I have assumed when I police my brass I probably get at least 10% from an unknown origin. The numbers are close enough that I cannot ignore the possible correlation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noylj Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 Rick49: Mark the bullet and case with black magic marker/sharpee, drop in barrel, rotate a couple of times and find out where the problem is: 1) scratches on bullet: COL too long 2) scratches at case mouth: need more crimp 3) scratches on case at base of bullet: bullet seated crooked. Get larger expander or a seating stem that fits the bullet better 4) scratches just above the extractor groove: case has bulge that isn't being sized. Get a Bulge Buster and run all case through it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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